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RE: Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/19/2011 7:35:02 PM

imperatrixx

Posts: 903
Joined: 3/29/2011
Status: offline

quote:

Am I being unreasonable here? Is the progression of connection/relationship that much different in BDSM? Is it truly outlandish to expect to be able to consider a Dom a friend before one considers them their Dom? Is it exceptionally unsubby to believe I'm the equal of any Dom until we chose to enter into a power synergy/exchange relationship? (And I won't go into how I feel about equality as people/humans AFTER that. *wrygrin*)

And, perhaps the core question - how best do I express that I feel like they don't have the 'right' to demand a stranger call them Sir, without casting aspersions on their experience and dynamic? I usually handle it by not 'addressing' them at all.....

Eh just fuck with him a bit...if a guy instructs you to call him Sir you should reply how happy you are that you two are now in a committed, monogamous relationship where he is your dom. Just play it all stupid like and he'll show his true intentions soon enough...if he doesn't reply he's a player, if he's happy about the exclusivity too he's either desperate or lying, and if he replies that he's confused, then he's an honest guy and you can explain that to you "Sir" means someone you've committed to.

:D

(in reply to subtlyAlpha)

Post #: 21

RE: Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/19/2011 7:47:05 PM

Hisprettybaby

Posts: 781
Joined: 4/13/2011
From: Bellingham, WA U.S.A.
Status: offline

~FR~
I'm owned now, but when I was a "free submissive" and looking, I called people by either their usernames, or whatever name they preferred. I explained to them that I don't mind calling them Sir as a matter of general respect but that it does NOT mean I'm submitting because that dynamic is NOT in place. As long as they understand it's just general respect and not submitting that was fine, if they started that "On your knees bitch, you're MINE now" crap, it was NO WAY and GOODBYE.

~Hisprettybaby~

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 22

RE: Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/19/2011 9:15:33 PM

JanahX

Posts: 3443
Joined: 8/21/2010
Status: offline

Maybe I could instruct you to mail me your life savings too ...are things really this easy? .... plot - plot - plot - plot (rubs hands together)

_____________________________

The first rule of Fight Club is you do not talk about Fight Club.

The second rule of Fight Club is you do not talk about Fight Club.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 23

RE: Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/19/2011 9:18:51 PM

OsideGirl

Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

One of the biggest problems I see these days are newbie fem subs who jump into relationships too quickly.

I've been doing this nearly 20 years.... and it's always gone on. The other ones are the women that play on the first meeting (repeatedly) then constantly bitch and moan about how they got "used" because they never heard from him again.

quote:

ORIGINAL: imperatrixx

Eh just fuck with him a bit...if a guy instructs you to call him Sir you should reply how happy you are that you two are now in a committed, monogamous relationship where he is your dom.

One of my favorite IM conversations on AOL went like this:

Wanker: Hello
Me: Good evening
Wanker: Sir
Me: Oh, I'm not a "Sir", I'm a sub female
Wanker: No, I'm a Sir
Me: You've been Knighted?

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to imperatrixx)

Post #: 24

RE: Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/19/2011 10:05:14 PM

LafayetteLady

Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline

~fast reply~

They "claim" it is a way of you recognizing their aurthority, but you know what? They don't have that authority yet. It's difficult ot get to know someone for a relaitonship when they are already so deep into the "dynamic" they don't allow for that laid back getting to know you time.

Personally, I would explain to them that while you may have an interest in getting to know them, you want to know the person. If you find the person is someone you would consider your "dominant" you can move from there. Until then, first names will do just fine. You are still being polite, but getting your point across.

(in reply to OsideGirl)

Post #: 25

RE: Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/19/2011 10:45:38 PM

HeatherMcLeather

Posts: 2559
Joined: 5/21/2011
From: The dog house
Status: offline

I was going to give you my opinion, but basically, I really only need to refer you back to your own OP. You're not being unreasonable in the slightest, I also find that approach to be distasteful..

However, there is a bright side, when a new prospect does do that, you can sigh and check him off as "incompatible" and move on.

I look forward to more of your posts, because, to me, you seem to have your head in the right space.

(in reply to subtlyAlpha)

Post #: 26

RE: Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/19/2011 11:46:35 PM

MasterSlaveLA

Posts: 3991
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: subtlyAlpha

Thank you, MasterSlaveLA - it does feel a bit 'cheap'.

For me, not only does it feel "cheap", I feel it "cheapens" (i.e., diminishes the worth of) said honorific(s) when used with those who have actually EARNED it.

_____________________________

It's only kinky the first time!!!

(in reply to subtlyAlpha)

Post #: 27

RE: Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/19/2011 11:47:06 PM

crazyml

Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline

Kerching!

You've had some really good advice, and I agree completely with Heather - if you're asking this kind of question, you'll do ok!

I also thought that Her Royal Highness OsideGirl nailed it too.

Personally... I really, really, don't need an honorific in order to make myself feel domly or empowered. I've had interactions with subs who want to use an honorific, and I'm always appreciative of their intentions when they do, but sheesh! Demanding that someone use an honorific when they don't even know you has always struck me, personally, as a little.... well... weak.

On the other hand... there are some pretty "high protocol" doms out there who like things to be highly formal from the get go, and I know that there are some subs out there who like high protocol - So the key really is - "If it works for you, then it works. If it doesn't then, you don't have to put up with it.

Of course... once you're in a relationship with a dom/domme he or she may want you to say and do all sorts of things..... ;-)

_____________________________

Remember.... There's always somewhere on the planet where it's jackass o'clock.

(in reply to HeatherMcLeather)

Post #: 28

RE: Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/20/2011 3:37:08 AM

thishereboi

Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline

I use sir and ma'am all the time. It was the way I was raised long before I had ever heard of bdsm and Masters and Mistresses. If I meet someone in the lifestyle I ask them how they want to be addressed and it is usually by their name or nickname. And honestly I can't remember anyone telling me to call them sir or ma'am.

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert

This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi

(in reply to subtlyAlpha)

Post #: 29

RE: Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/20/2011 3:51:34 AM

LillyBoPeep

Posts: 6873
Joined: 12/29/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: subtlyAlpha

To me, it seems like it would be more valuable to progress through a relationship to the point where I wanted to call them Sir. Where calling them Sir seemed simply natural. It would indicate a change in attitudes, perceptions, dynamic and expectations - on both sides of the kneel.

i agree with you, totally. i don't think you're unreasonable at all. this expectation of enormous respect based solely on their self-ascribed relationship orientation just makes no sense to me. i mean, the idea of this "class" of people being higher makes a hot fantasy once in a while, but it doesn't work for me in the long-term.
when people expect that from me, i politely let them know that that's a different ideology than what i subscribe to and figure we're probably not compatible.

i didn't grow up using "sir" and "ma'am" for elders, i grew up calling them "mr." or "mrs./ms." and not being familiar with first names, so maybe my opinion is skewed by that. i have used it in certain jobs to refer to customers. but even if i was raised that way and it was common for me to do that, "Sir" in the lifestyle means something else than your usual, everyday "sir," at least it does to me.

_____________________________

Midwestern Girl

"Obey your Master." Metallica

(in reply to subtlyAlpha)

Post #: 30

RE: Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/20/2011 4:09:58 AM

ChatteParfaitt

Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

rd from him again.
I've been doing this nearly 20 years.... and it's always gone on. The other ones are the women that play on the first meeting (repeatedly) then constantly bitch and moan about how they got "used" because they never hea

One of my favorite IM conversations on AOL went like this:

Wanker: Hello
Me: Good evening
Wanker: Sir
Me: Oh, I'm not a "Sir", I'm a sub female
Wanker: No, I'm a Sir
Me: You've been Knighted?

It's been going on since the internet was invented. Since I've been DJing online and involved with CM, perhaps I notice it more.

Although I do think the increasing prevalence of BDSM in the mainstream means more and more new people are coming in, with an equal number of misconceptions. So many get into BDSM from online interactions, where a cheesy IRC chatroom can be considered "High protocol" and s-types have to "beg to enter" though they are already there.

This calling everyone Sir or Ma'am who self ids as a dom seems to be an offshoot of that mindset.

And yes, all that has been going on for many years, and I did not mean to imply otherwise.

_____________________________

(in reply to OsideGirl)

Post #: 31

RE: Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/20/2011 5:19:00 AM

imperatrixx

Posts: 903
Joined: 3/29/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

One of my favorite IM conversations on AOL went like this:

Wanker: Hello
Me: Good evening
Wanker: Sir
Me: Oh, I'm not a "Sir", I'm a sub female
Wanker: No, I'm a Sir
Me: You've been Knighted?

hahaha

nice

I wouldn't be able to keep a straight face if some strange guy expected me to call him "Sir"...unless like he was someone's crotchety old 90 year old grandfather who thought it was just normal to call your elders that...but if you're old enough that you get called "Sir" or "Ma'am" from me then you're waaaaaaaaaay too old for me to date.

(in reply to OsideGirl)

Post #: 32

RE: Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/20/2011 7:33:38 AM

OsideGirl

Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

rd from him again.
I've been doing this nearly 20 years.... and it's always gone on. The other ones are the women that play on the first meeting (repeatedly) then constantly bitch and moan about how they got "used" because they never hea

One of my favorite IM conversations on AOL went like this:

Wanker: Hello
Me: Good evening
Wanker: Sir
Me: Oh, I'm not a "Sir", I'm a sub female
Wanker: No, I'm a Sir
Me: You've been Knighted?

It's been going on since the internet was invented. Since I've been DJing online and involved with CM, perhaps I notice it more.

Although I do think the increasing prevalence of BDSM in the mainstream means more and more new people are coming in, with an equal number of misconceptions. So many get into BDSM from online interactions, where a cheesy IRC chatroom can be considered "High protocol" and s-types have to "beg to enter" though they are already there.

This calling everyone Sir or Ma'am who self ids as a dom seems to be an offshoot of that mindset.

And yes, all that has been going on for many years, and I did not mean to imply otherwise.

I agree, I think the internet has a great deal to do with it. All those people reading Castlerealm like it's some kind of rule book. People confuse the fantasy with the reality of what we do and try to make it into some sort of protocol.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

i didn't grow up using "sir" and "ma'am" for elders, i grew up calling them "mr." or "mrs./ms." and not being familiar with first names, so maybe my opinion is skewed by that. i have used it in certain jobs to refer to customers. but even if i was raised that way and it was common for me to do that, "Sir" in the lifestyle means something else than your usual, everyday "sir," at least it does to me.

I grew up the same way. I'm also married to a man that prefers not to be called Sir. Because of his instructions, there are actually only a few of our friends that I refer to as Sir.

< Message edited by OsideGirl -- 7/20/2011 7:36:06 AM >

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)

Post #: 33

RE: Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/20/2011 7:41:27 AM

subtlyAlpha

Posts: 41
Joined: 7/14/2011
From: The United States
Status: offline

*grins*

Thank you, everyone. *wrysmile* I've been known to be a TINY bit stubborn & set in my ways - and when appropriate, I want to address those things that just MAYBE I should have a little more flexibility on.

This, is not one of them. *lol* Just checking. ;)

K.

_____________________________

That which yields is not always weak.

My opinions/clarifications relate to me and my dynamic/potential dynamic, and those involved in it. No one else. Srsly.

(in reply to OsideGirl)

Post #: 34

RE: Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/20/2011 8:10:37 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

I use sir and ma'am all the time. It was the way I was raised long before I had ever heard of bdsm and Masters and Mistresses. If I meet someone in the lifestyle I ask them how they want to be addressed and it is usually by their name or nickname. And honestly I can't remember anyone telling me to call them sir or ma'am.

I Was raised to say "sir" and "ma'am" to my elders when I was young. Once I began to become a full fledged adult that started to go by the wayside.... the older I get, the less I say it. It is a convention that is applied to those with much more experience or authority than I have, and there are less and less people that have more experience or more authority than I have as I age...

Your experience may differ.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to thishereboi)

Post #: 35

RE: Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/20/2011 9:11:37 AM

risktaker9

Posts: 197
Joined: 3/10/2010
Status: offline

I think it's silly when Dom I do not know asks me to call him Sir right away. That's so incredibly lame, but instructive for me because then I know that he's more involved in the fantasy side of things rather than someone I'd like to know in real life. Anyone worth knowing is willing to wait till you actually develop some kind of a relationship no matter how casual it may be to ask for something that is a gesure of respect. How do you know if you respect a total stranger?

I've had various reactions when I don't call these guys Sir, most will say I'm feisty and they seem to like that oddly enough. One guy was rather wistful. None of them pushed for it when I explained politely that I wouldn't be using that term unless I decided to accept them in some way as a partner. On my own side, the conversation where I was asked to call them Sir was pretty much the last one I wanted to have with them.

If people out there like to do it or like to be called that right from the start then rock on and have fun with it.
It just personally rubs me the wrong way and I feel like I'm being inappropriately asked to give something to someone too early.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 36

RE: Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/20/2011 10:25:49 AM

Anomandaris

Posts: 16
Joined: 7/17/2011
From: Toronto
Status: offline

I'm new to the whole scene myself. I'm coming out of a vanilla relationship, and looking to find my way into the postion of a Dominant in a relationship that incorporates at least a moderate amount of the lifestyle. I would in no way demand even a long term aquaintance call me "Sir". I wouldn't expect that from a sub until the relationship had progressed a great deal.

Kind of wierded out by anyone trying that. Sir is a title or respect, and I would expect to have to earn it.

< Message edited by Anomandaris -- 7/20/2011 10:26:56 AM >

(in reply to risktaker9)

Post #: 37

RE: Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/20/2011 12:52:45 PM

ChasteDream

Posts: 26
Joined: 7/17/2011
Status: offline

I tend to feel that we operate on a certain level of trust and mutual respect in this 'ism' when starting out a conversation with someone new. I'm not sure how you can tell in online conversation, when you can each of you hide behind the keyboard and not receive any of the plethora of non-verbal signals that are essential to normal conversational rapport, how you can come to the point of someone 'earning' respect. Earning something like that takes a lot of time and effort, in my book. I suppose its possible that we each of us sound one another out sufficiently to our needs of the time, and come to some level of judgement as to when it does become appropriate to call someone 'Sir'.

Personally, I do like prospective slaves to show some kind of conventional respect by calling me 'Sir' from the beginning; and if they didn't, I would tell them that's what I expect. (At a later date they may sometimes be heard to exclaim 'Oh my God!' in my presence; but that's another story entirely.....)

My view is that anyone who reads my profile - admittedly most seldom get beyond the first three lines - would generally be able to form a fairly clear view of me as a person, and as a potential Master. If they don't feel that I portray the kind of image deserving of a degree of respect, they are perfectly at liberty not to write to me. But if they do choose to write, I expect some respect. (Notice the nice little rhyme there? Almost poetry, eh?! Or could it be rap?! 'I expect; some respect!')

Part of this may be due to my vast age, and the time in which I grew up. I can understand the concept of respect needing to be earned; but I also think sometimes it is something to be given on trust, until such time as it proves to have been misplaced. The Prime Minister (I'm writing in the UK; substitute President if in the US) tends to be addressed as 'Sir'; even once the current press scandals have been leaked! Many people are addressed automatically with honorific titles for which we have little personal evidence of their desert. Do you check your doctor's degree certificate before so honouring him/her?

Fundamentally, I think what I'm saying is that if you think someone's profile is sufficiently encouraging to incline you to contact them, or to reply if they contact you, then its my opinion you should also feel it appropriate to address them respectfully, whether as 'Sir', 'Madam', 'Goddess' (We don't seem to have dominant 'Gods' do we? 'Bound Gods' yes; but they're different. Cute; but different!); My lady; Lord (I do quite like that one! Feel free to use it if contacting me! Although I admit I shall probably wet myself laughing!)

In return, of course, I feel it appropriate for the dominant or whoever to address the prospective sub/slave appropriately. I usually find something along the lines of 'pigslutslave' goes down fairly well......or for the women, possibly 'fuckslutslave', depending on whether I'm trying to be nice or not........obviously if I'm in a bad mood (please, no discussion on whether a Master should or should not deal with a slave whilst in a bad mood; I'm sure its been discussed; or if not, now will be) then I may use a less complimentary terminology.

Anyway, take it for what you will; and if you got this far, bloody good on you, you must be the first! I gave up after the second paragraph!

_____________________________

Sorry if I come across as a sarcastic and sour arsehole. Oh, hang on; no; actually I'm not..........

Nurse, pass the humour by-pass instrument; this man is having a humorrhage..........

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 38

RE: Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/20/2011 1:06:17 PM

Missokyst

Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline

The only thing this brings to mind is a question. If the opinion below is based on your vast age, shouldn't that respect be issued across the board? All men would then be sir, all women, maam, miss, ect., no line drawn because one identifies as a dominant and the other as submissive.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChasteDream

Fundamentally, I think what I'm saying is that if you think someone's profile is sufficiently encouraging to incline you to contact them, or to reply if they contact you, then its my opinion you should also feel it appropriate to address them respectfully, whether as 'Sir', 'Madam',

In return, of course, I feel it appropriate for the dominant or whoever to address the prospective sub/slave appropriately. I usually find something along the lines of 'pigslutslave' goes down fairly well......or for the women, possibly 'fuckslutslave', depending on whether I'm trying to be nice or not........obviously if I'm in a bad mood (please, no discussion on whether a Master should or should not deal with a slave whilst in a bad mood; I'm sure its been discussed; or if not, now will be) then I may use a less complimentary terminology.

_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley

(in reply to ChasteDream)

Post #: 39

RE: Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/20/2011 2:03:23 PM

kiwisub12

Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline

I have no problem calling people by their chosen title. Heck, i grew up addressing all elders as Mrs or Mr, and since coming to America, to the south, I have adopted their usage of Ma'am and sir. Nothing weird about it, just common courtesy.

And it takes more than being requested to use "Sir" to get my knickers in a a knot- or panties in a wad - or bowels in an uproar. Just because someone wants a sir or two doesn't mean they are wankers or players or anything else... it means they want to be called sir.

My first dom requested i call him sir the first time i met him - and six years later, many "sirs" (and his death) i have a hard time calling my current dom by his first name, even though he doesn't particularly care for the title "Sir".

OP, if you don't want to call potentials "sir", don't, and if you use this as a weeding out tool, you may miss some gems.

(in reply to Missokyst)

Post #: 40

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