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RE: Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/21/2011 10:28:10 AM

LadyConstanze

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I'm open for negotiations

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RE: Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/21/2011 10:30:01 AM

ChatteParfaitt

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DecadentDesire

Wow...simply wow....

As a dominant, how much I strongly disagree with this cannot be properly expressed into words.

The notion that you have a "position" as a dominant in the online world that is deserving of an elevated degree of respect is nothing more than an ego-centric delusion. This is why I have such an issue of honorifics outside of the context of my intimate relationships, because typically the people who make the biggest deal about them have the lowest grasp on reality.

Personally, out of the dozens of submissive women I have met, talked to, dated and been with, all of them have started out on equal footing and I have had absolutely zero trouble taking any of them serious as a submissive. Things progressed from that equal footing and a D/S relationship naturally developed as they responded to my character, strong presence, aggressive/assertive personality and the fact that I gave them the oppurtunity to become comfortable with me before making demands of them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: RqrCompanionS
As the old saying goes "Start how you intend to finish."

Simply, awful, awful advice that defies common sense and everything that I have learned about developing relationships with people. Note that key word: "developing".

Agreed. Calling someone by an honorific is not evidence of submission. It's evidence of a pretense of submission. A pretense of submission means absolutely nothing in an actual relationship.

Actual relationships are *supposed* to be based on mutual respect and trust. I do not adore my submissive b/c he/she is less than me or not equal to me. I adore them precisely b/c they *are* my equal (and are quite aware of it), and yet still feel a strong need to submit. Now, that's the power rush for me.

It's like difference between having the alpha dog obey you, and having the lowlly, cowardly super beta who cowers and pisses himself every time you enter the room obey you.

They both offer obedience (and therefore submission, if you will). But the first obeys out of agreement (informed consent), the other obeys out of fear a/o desperation.

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RE: Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/21/2011 10:36:57 AM

LadyConstanze

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

Agreed. Calling someone by an honorific is not evidence of submission. It's evidence of a pretense of submission. A pretense of submission means absolutely nothing in an actual relationship.

Actual relationships are *supposed* to be based on mutual respect and trust. I do not adore my submissive b/c he/she is less than me or not equal to me. I adore them precisely b/c they *are* my equal (and are quite aware of it), and yet still feel a strong need to submit. Now, that's the power rush for me.

It's like difference between having the alpha dog obey you, and having the lowlly, cowardly super beta who cowers and pisses himself every time you enter the room obey you.

They both offer obedience (and therefore submission, if you will). But the first obeys out of agreement (informed consent), the other obeys out of fear a/o desperation.

Well, for me it's simply somebody who compliments my own leanings, a masochist is not somebody I look down on because he receives pain, it's somebody who lets me be an ethical sadist, which is a difference to an abuser...

The 2 different sides of a coin really...

As for the pissing beta - ewww, who's going to clean up the mess? I haven't managed to train the doggies to mop up!

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RE: Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/21/2011 10:40:37 AM

DecadentDesire

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And to me, the fact that I have to argue this point, time and time again in these kinds of discussions is like having to argue over and over again that someone isn't the King of England.

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RE: Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/21/2011 10:51:22 AM

ChatteParfaitt

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DecadentDesire

And to me, the fact that I have to argue this point, time and time again in these kinds of discussions is like having to argue over and over again that someone isn't the King of England.

But but, I'm the Queen of England.

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RE: Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/21/2011 10:52:19 AM

LadyConstanze

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

But but, I'm the Queen of England.

You had a face lift and a boob job! I'll tell the tabloids!

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RE: Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/21/2011 10:58:33 AM

LillyBoPeep

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DecadentDesire
Things progressed from that equal footing and a D/S relationship naturally developed as they responded to my character, strong presence, aggressive/assertive personality and the fact that I gave them the oppurtunity to become comfortable with me before making demands of them.

100%!!!

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RE: Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/21/2011 2:49:12 PM

ChatteParfaitt

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

But but, I'm the Queen of England.

You had a face lift and a boob job! I'll tell the tabloids!

Where's my big fat pocketbook?

I need it to whack some sub(jects) into submission.

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RE: Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/21/2011 3:37:50 PM

OwnedFemaleFlesh

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I never call anyone Sir but my Owner. If I called everyone Sir, how would I give my Owner the extra respect he deserves? I agree that if *I* approached a Dom wanting to play with them, submit to them or be considered by them then it might be a nice idea to start as I meant to go on. But this doesn't explain why Doms who approach me for 'a chat' or 'friendship' then try to insist on being called Sir. It seems to me that there are many low-status individuals who use online BDSM as a way to get the respect they fail to get in their real life. Unfortunately for them, they are not going to get that respect from me.

Another related irritation is when other subs (often Gorean) insist on calling my Owner Sir, even after he has told them not to. For him, Sir is the personal, sexual, intimate title that I give him and for others in BDSM to refer to him by that title is an attempt by them to position themselves as submissive to him, something which he has not asked for or consented to. It is particularly rude for them to continue after he has made his feelings clear, claiming 'that's just what I call all Doms' and imposing their standards onto him.

If someone says 'call me Sir' I simply say 'no thanks' and carry on with what I was saying previously. No-one can dominate you without your permission!

owned xxx

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RE: Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/21/2011 3:59:59 PM

vanessa48

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First I would like to say to the OP, GREAT THREAD! For a newcomer you sound like you really have a good grasp on who you are and what you want. I say continue to follow your instincts, they sound like they are spot on to me.
@DecadentDesire, I totally agree with everything you said. I am still reeling from the "demands" placed upon me on the very first day I registered.
@OwnedFemaleFlesh, perfectly stated! Again, I am amazed at the nerve of some people. To think they would continue to call your Owner Sir AFTER he requested they NOT. Amazing. Just AMAZING.

If I may be so bold, I would like to add the flip side of this coin. Doms/Masters insisting on calling me names right off the bat. Speaking to me as "slave". Good morning "slave". Umm....excuse me, you don't know me like that. I'm wondering if I'm wrong, am I the online one who feels this way on the other side of the equation.

vanessa

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RE: Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/21/2011 5:29:47 PM

kalikshama

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quote:

If I may be so bold, I would like to add the flip side of this coin. Doms/Masters insisting on calling me names right off the bat. Speaking to me as "slave". Good morning "slave". Umm....excuse me, you don't know me like that. I'm wondering if I'm wrong, am I the online one who feels this way on the other side of the equation.

Those get deleted unread and blocked if they write back.

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RE: Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/21/2011 5:31:55 PM

kalikshama

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< Message edited by kalikshama -- 7/21/2011 5:32:51 PM >

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RE: Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/21/2011 5:54:35 PM

subtlyAlpha

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vanessa48

First I would like to say to the OP, GREAT THREAD! For a newcomer you sound like you really have a good grasp on who you are and what you want. I say continue to follow your instincts, they sound like they are spot on to me.
@DecadentDesire, I totally agree with everything you said. I am still reeling from the "demands" placed upon me on the very first day I registered.
@OwnedFemaleFlesh, perfectly stated! Again, I am amazed at the nerve of some people. To think they would continue to call your Owner Sir AFTER he requested they NOT. Amazing. Just AMAZING.

If I may be so bold, I would like to add the flip side of this coin. Doms/Masters insisting on calling me names right off the bat. Speaking to me as "slave". Good morning "slave". Umm....excuse me, you don't know me like that. I'm wondering if I'm wrong, am I the online one who feels this way on the other side of the equation.

vanessa

I kindly correct them, just as I would if they misspelled my name.
Them: Good Morning, Slave.
Me: Good Morning, Joe. Perhaps you weren't aware, but my name is Kiya. :)

Again - WE haven't agreed to enter into that dynamic, and assuming that I want to enter into that dynamic with Them is not the best way to start off. That sort of presumptive assertiveness is not attractive to me,

How they respond to that, lets me know how I'll respond. *grins*

Thank you, everyone who has chimed in - I'm glad that my concerns and thoughts about the 'boss/police officer' comparison were handled so ably by other posters! :)

K.

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RE: Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/21/2011 6:46:30 PM

LadyPact

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The only reason that I'm not quoting everyone that I agree with is because it would take up an entire page. I'm really on the same wave-length as DD, CP, and Lady C. Somebody who doesn't know Me has no clue of whether I deserve their respect or their submission or not. If the only reason I'm getting it is because I checked the D box on the profile, I'd rather not have it.

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RE: Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/21/2011 8:24:20 PM

Anomandaris

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

The only reason that I'm not quoting everyone that I agree with is because it would take up an entire page. I'm really on the same wave-length as DD, CP, and Lady C. Somebody who doesn't know Me has no clue of whether I deserve their respect or their submission or not. If the only reason I'm getting it is because I checked the D box on the profile, I'd rather not have it.

You said it better than I could. :-)

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RE: Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/21/2011 8:54:24 PM

Rochsub2009

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RqrCompanionS

quote:

The problem is that they're demanding you respect their authority and you haven't yet consented to give them any authority. And the basis of what we do is consent.
.

It is not respect for their authority over you - it is for their position. In much the same way you call an police officer "Sir" or "Officer" even if you are away from home, or, he is visiting from another country. It has nothing to do with consent. It is basic respect for a person, acknowledging their position.

RqrCompanionS,
I don't know you, but I find your comment to be almost laughable. You strike me as someone who discovered D/s on-line rather than in real life.

I've been openly involved in D/s for almost 20 years, and I've NEVER met anyone at a real life event who felt that they were inherently superior to subs/slaves (who were not their own) simply due to their own self-appointed role as a "Dominant".

In order to truly be "dominant" you must first have someone who actually agrees to submit to you. Simply stating that you're dominant doesn't suffice.

So if nobody has agreed to submit to you, what is the basis of this elevated "position" that you supposedly hold?

I'd suggest that you keep your D/s activities limited to strictly on-line interactions. With an attitude like yours, you'd likely get your ass kicked in real life.

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RE: Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/21/2011 10:08:18 PM

Palliata

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My hard and fast rule is that I accept people who call me Sir as a sign of respect to my role. I can be Sir without implying any connection to the person calling me that - they call me sir at my bank, after all - but Master I absolutely do not accept from random strangers or playmates. There has been precisely one person who had the right to call me Master, no more no less. That said, it does sometimes come out in the heat of the moment, and I usually let that go as it is more or less an involuntary response.

As to using them towards submissives, I will admit I've been known to use 'little one' towards women who were not that closely acquainted with me, even those outside the lifestyle. It's not something I do consciously, by any means, but it does happen quite a bit. I also shorten female names almost compulsively, for reasons I've never fully understood - Emily's become Em's, Rebecca's become Bec's, and so forth. Basically the only ones who keep their full name are dommes, those who have really pretty names like Gwendolyn or Magdelena, and those who find it offensive and correct me. That being said, like Sir, neither little one nor Em/Bec/etc. imply a connection between us. As a rule, women are, in fact, little when compared to me

.

I guess the overarching message here is that I have little issue with honorifics which carry little or no implication, while those that imply a connection between the speaker and the referenced are verboten. Probably the Women's Studies majors among us would say that my referential patterns imply subconscious sexism, especially since I never shorten men's names, but c'est la vie.

< Message edited by Palliata -- 7/21/2011 10:09:42 PM >

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RE: Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/21/2011 10:26:32 PM

SaMaitresse

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I find that a sub who I do not own calling me Mistress only cheapens the term, it should be something only an owned sub calls her owner. I also dislike being called Ma'am, intensely. Ma'am is a word used for prunish old teachers and senior citizens, and I'm not quite ready to join those ranks. I also dislike being called Miss, I am married and proud of my status as his wife, but Mrs only goes with a last name, so I prefer they just use my name.

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RE: Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/21/2011 10:28:58 PM

Palliata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SaMaitresse

I also dislike being called Ma'am, intensely.

What about the unabbreviated Madame?

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RE: Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/21/2011 10:31:20 PM

SaMaitresse

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Unless you're speaking in French, that's a brothel owner's title. So no, not a chance.

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