Paying For Inmates or Helping the Poor.

Paying For Inmates or Helping the Poor. (Full Version)

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[Poll]

Pay for Immates at their current budget

2% (1)

Pay for the elderly and others in financial hardship

48% (17)

Other.

48% (17)

Total Votes : 35

(last vote on : 8/15/2011 9:55:44 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )

Message

SpiritedRadiance -> Paying For Inmates or Helping the Poor. (7/19/2011 11:03:50 PM)
Instead of derailing the mental health thread even further as well as trying to keep the opinions on both topics seperate. I figured a new thread was in order. If given the magical choice of choosing where your tax dollars are spent would you choose to pay it to the 23,500 a year budget per inmate in America or would you use it to help the sick, elderly and poor in America. This is mostly based on the USA because we do not have universal healthcare. If you live outside of America please TRY to keep to the topic of whats going on there, while Your country might be superfantastical, its not the topic of the OP. Edited to correct average across the US cost of prisoner (Some states such as pa are higher some such as Alabama are lower)

SpiritedRadiance -> RE: Paying For Inmates or Helping the Poor. (7/19/2011 11:07:34 PM)
And as for my opinion Id rather cut the spending we do on the people who cannot follow societies laws and push for more important things in my opinion such as making sure the elderly dont have to choose between their 60 dollar a month medication and wither or not they are going to eat. Again I state in america on average 1 in 8 people go hungry daily, 1 in 3 elderly people have to make the choice between feeding themselves and buying their medication. Over 30 percent of the working population lives in a bracket where they make less than 22 thousand dollars a year. However We spend more on people who rape, rob, and kill, then we do on the people who work every single day of their lives.

HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Paying For Inmates or Helping the Poor. (7/19/2011 11:17:43 PM)
I replied "other" because I do not think it is an Either/Or issue, but rather an And issue.

SpiritedRadiance -> RE: Paying For Inmates or Helping the Poor. (7/19/2011 11:23:22 PM)
Do You propose a way to fix it? With the way things are going within America crime rate is rising. Meaning We will have to care for more prisoners meaning the cost on the system will be higher taking away the little bit of funds we have for assistance. You mention its cold hearted to just kill prisoners instead allowing them to live in prison and taxing the american system... However is it not also being a cold hearted person to allow children, women, men and the elderly go hungry or starve to death because we spend too much on prisoners?

Iamsemisweet -> RE: Paying For Inmates or Helping the Poor. (7/19/2011 11:30:48 PM)
If we are going to incarcerate people, we have a responsibility to make sure their needs are met and they are safe. Vulnerable adults and children also need protection. I don't always agree about how tax money is spent, but both of these are priorities. I don't think it is an either/or, at least not yet. There are other places to cut corners, like corporate welfare, the crazy wars and entitlements to those who really don't need them.

SpiritedRadiance -> RE: Paying For Inmates or Helping the Poor. (7/19/2011 11:32:37 PM)
However Iamsemisweet Its at 2 million inmates as of 2002 at 23,500 a year thats 47 BILLION dollars spent on people who break the law YEARLY..... However we spend less then 3 million yearly on feeding assistance programs.

HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Paying For Inmates or Helping the Poor. (7/19/2011 11:32:54 PM)
A method to fix it? Certainly, it seems quite obvious to me. Legalize marijuana and tax it. This would reduce the number of inmates by a huge factor <I don't feel like looking up the specific percentage, but I recall it being reported on the boards to be a shockingly substantial one>. The savings from that combined with the money generated from the taxes on pot would provide a hefty amount towards the upkeep of the needy. See, you could do both if you really wanted to.

LafayetteLady -> RE: Paying For Inmates or Helping the Poor. (7/19/2011 11:33:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SpiritedRadiance Do You propose a way to fix it? With the way things are going within America crime rate is rising. Meaning We will have to care for more prisoners meaning the cost on the system will be higher taking away the little bit of funds we have for assistance. You mention its cold hearted to just kill prisoners instead allowing them to live in prison and taxing the american system... However is it not also being a cold hearted person to allow children, women, men and the elderly go hungry or starve to death because we spend too much on prisoners? More importantly, it is your post, how do YOU propose to fix it. Because while your thought is good, the concept is flawed. Yes, we need to do something aobut education in this country, we need to provide better services to our elderly, disabled and homeless. But surely you realize you can't just more money from one colum without the other column having a deficit. The costs of keeping an inmate has a great deal of overheard. Guards must be paid, they aren't expendible. Secure facilities must exist, we can't get rid of those. Yes, the televisions, weight rooms etc. can be expended, but much of that is donated. The question is where can we take from the budget as a whole (not just prisons), but the ridiculous costs of military building, the foolish costs of government officials, etc. and spread those to the programs in need? We are facing a time when the eldery and disabled may not receive their checks next month. That is all many of them have to live on, keep a roof over their head, food in their bellies. That is the problem that must be resolved. Being ready for war is a sad necessity, but when you are keeping safe a country that is coming apart, what good does it do.

SpiritedRadiance -> RE: Paying For Inmates or Helping the Poor. (7/19/2011 11:38:31 PM)
I say force those who are criminals to work within the prison system its self. In PA, our prisons are staffed with people who do the cooking, the cleaning, the upkeep the maintenance. In Lancaster County and Chester county they bought the equipment, as well as the 4 50in plasma tvs, an several couches for "comfort". Instead have the prisons all be self staffed except the guards, have the immates do all of the work within the prison all of the cleaning, that would cut spending at least 150 thousand PER prison that doesnt implement this policy.

HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Paying For Inmates or Helping the Poor. (7/19/2011 11:40:35 PM)
quote: You mention its cold hearted to just kill prisoners instead allowing them to live in prison and taxing the american system... No I never actually said that. If you wish to misquote me, I can't stop you, but seeing as I can prove what I said, it seems a little foolish to do so. What I said was: quote: I'm afraid I just can't be as cold hearted as you about it, I find it distasteful to be considering money when deciding if people should die or not. I feel the question is too important to be determined by economic factors. For what its worth, I feel the same way about helping the destitute. http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3775521 As you can see, what I said is really very different from what you presented it as.

SpiritedRadiance -> RE: Paying For Inmates or Helping the Poor. (7/19/2011 11:43:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather quote: You mention its cold hearted to just kill prisoners instead allowing them to live in prison and taxing the american system... No I never actually said that. If you wish to misquote me, I can't stop you, but seeing as I can prove what I said, it seems a little foolish to do so. What I said was: quote: I'm afraid I just can't be as cold hearted as you about it, I find it distasteful to be considering money when deciding if people should die or not. I feel the question is too important to be determined by economic factors. For what its worth, I feel the same way about helping the destitute. http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3775521 As you can see, what I said is really very different from what you presented it as. Your saying It is cold hearted to decided to kill someone because of economic factors. that is called YOUR opinion To me its cold hearted to choose to let someone who killed someone live and cost a system nearly a million dollars to feed house and cloth them instead of feeding the poor. That is MY opinion And I didnt misrepresent what you said Please refer to the part in BOLD which is Exactly what i said. Please if all you can do is debate that your opinion is right and can only be right dont bother wasting your time typing.

Iamsemisweet -> RE: Paying For Inmates or Helping the Poor. (7/19/2011 11:47:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather A method to fix it? Certainly, it seems quite obvious to me. Legalize marijuana and tax it. This would reduce the number of inmates by a huge factor <I don't feel like looking up the specific percentage, but I recall it being reported on the boards to be a shockingly substantial onion pot would provide a hefty amount towards the upkeep of Well, we agree on something. I actually believe this is going to happen. The question is if those previously convicted will be released.

Iamsemisweet -> RE: Paying For Inmates or Helping the Poor. (7/19/2011 11:50:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SpiritedRadiance Its at 2 million inmates as of 2002 at 23,500 a year thats 47 BILLION dollars spent on people who break the law YEARLY..... However we spend less then 3 million yearly on feeding assistance programs. I think you might be wrong on your three million figure. Where did you get that number? And what would you do with inmates? We do have to incarcerate people, it can't be a situation where they fend for themselves.

SpiritedRadiance -> RE: Paying For Inmates or Helping the Poor. (7/19/2011 11:52:35 PM)
http://www.welfareinfo.org/

HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Paying For Inmates or Helping the Poor. (7/20/2011 12:08:50 AM)
No. The part you bolded says nothing of the sort. You said: quote: You mention its cold hearted to just kill prisoners instead allowing them to live in prison and taxing the american system... And what I said was that I was not cold hearted enough to base the decision of having a death penalty or not on economic considerations..Not at all the same thing. Oddly enough, two lines above saying that you hadn't misquoted me, you state quite clearly that you had, by restating my position somewhat correctly. Perhaps you should pay a little more attention to the content of your posts, this would avoid making such glaring contradictions. And of course that is my opinion, I quite clearly stated that "I find it distasteful". I never stated that it had to be so for anyone, only that it was to me. I'm sorry if that isn't making it clear enough to you that I wasn't making a universal statement, but I have trouble seeing how that could be. quote: Please if all you can do is debate that your opinion is right and can only be right dont bother wasting your time typing. I haven't done anything of the kind. I didn't bring up the comment from the other thread, I merely pointed out to you that you had misrepresented what I had said, whether deliberately, or through a genuine inability to understand what I said, I don't know. I haven't told anybody their opinions are wrong on this thread, I merely gave my opinion and when asked for a solution, I proposed one. The only person on this thread so far to insist they are right about anything is you. If you wish to dispute what I said on the other thread, then I suggest you go do so there.

HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Paying For Inmates or Helping the Poor. (7/20/2011 12:11:31 AM)
It really does seem to be the only sensible solution. And I would hope that those already incarcerated would be freed at that time. It seems to me that it would very unjust not to do so.

SpiritedRadiance -> RE: Paying For Inmates or Helping the Poor. (7/20/2011 12:13:28 AM)
Im sorry Heather of course Your right your completely right. How terrible of me to have a difference of opinion from you at any point. I should just go and kill myself for committing such a crime against you or your god like owner... I will cease such behavior and never do it again.

HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Paying For Inmates or Helping the Poor. (7/20/2011 12:14:24 AM)
quote: Instead have the prisons all be self staffed except the guards, have the immates do all of the work within the prison all of the cleaning, that would cut spending at least 150 thousand PER prison that doesnt implement this policy. I actually don't see a major problem with this idea. I don't find it unreasonable to require prisoners to maintain the basic conditions of the facility.

Iamsemisweet -> RE: Paying For Inmates or Helping the Poor. (7/20/2011 12:15:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SpiritedRadiance http://www.welfareinfo.org/ I looked, I still didn't see where it said 3 million.

HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Paying For Inmates or Helping the Poor. (7/20/2011 12:19:50 AM)
Look, if you have a problem with Hanners from another thread, please take it up with her there. It has nothing to do with me or anything I said on this thread. The only thing I have argued with anybody on this thread about is you misstating something I said elsewhere. Now, what do you think of the proposal I made to free up money from the prison system to provide for the poor?

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