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Post Columnist: Wages Are Too Low - 7/20/2011 4:05:30 PM

dcnovice

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"If you’re wondering why American consumers are still flat on their backs, rendering the economy similarly supine, the answer is both fundamental and simple: It’s not just that so many of them are unemployed. The ones who are employed are also underpaid."

More at http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/corporate-americas-chokehold-on-wages/2011/07/19/gIQAL2ieOI_story.html

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No matter how cynical you become,
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Post #: 1

RE: Post Columnist: Wages Are Too Low - 7/20/2011 4:08:23 PM

willbeurdaddy

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You do know who Harold Meyerson is, right?

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Post #: 2

RE: Post Columnist: Wages Are Too Low - 7/20/2011 4:10:43 PM

dcnovice

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What part of his argument does his backstory negate?

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

Post #: 3

RE: Post Columnist: Wages Are Too Low - 7/20/2011 4:14:31 PM

willbeurdaddy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

What part of his argument does his backstory negate?

You dont need his backstory to negate the argument. There is no such thing as "wages are too low", wages are a function of the market. But as an avowed Marxist he would never recognize that.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to dcnovice)

Post #: 4

RE: Post Columnist: Wages Are Too Low - 7/20/2011 4:16:28 PM

Lucylastic

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hes a "whispering" a socialist..and therefore, wrong

OMG hes even worse, he is a "MARXIST"
nevr m ind that people who work for low wages are becoing a very large slice of the US.
Why otherwise are so many people not paying taxes or getting refunds... their minimum wages arent enough to support anything beyond a single person, let alone two or three people

< Message edited by Lucylastic -- 7/20/2011 4:19:55 PM >

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RE: Post Columnist: Wages Are Too Low - 7/20/2011 4:20:59 PM

rulemylife

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While I'm not a big fan of Henry Ford, he understood that his employees were also his customers.

(in reply to dcnovice)

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RE: Post Columnist: Wages Are Too Low - 7/20/2011 4:33:22 PM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

You do know who Harold Meyerson is, right?

One of those crazy liberals who just doesn't understand that the economy can't function without turning American workers into the equivalent of third world labor?

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Post #: 7

RE: Post Columnist: Wages Are Too Low - 7/20/2011 4:35:15 PM

willbeurdaddy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

You do know who Harold Meyerson is, right?

One of those crazy liberals who just doesn't understand that the economy can't function without turning American workers into the equivalent of third world labor?

One of those crazy Marxists who thinks that laborers have a right to the owner's profits even though they take no risk.

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RE: Post Columnist: Wages Are Too Low - 7/20/2011 4:38:50 PM

Lucylastic

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of course there is risk, what a ridiculous thing to say
how arrogant and typical

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Post #: 9

RE: Post Columnist: Wages Are Too Low - 7/20/2011 4:40:40 PM

dcnovice

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I'm a little bit darkly amused by this back-and-forth on Meyerson, since he credits the key point of the article to someone else: "Michael Cembalest, the chief investment officer of J.P. Morgan Chase.." I don't know him, but I tend to doubt he's an avowed Marxist.

It's Cembalest, not Meyerson, who says that “US labor compensation is now at a 50-year low relative to both company sales and US GDP.”

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

Post #: 10

RE: Post Columnist: Wages Are Too Low - 7/20/2011 4:44:39 PM

willbeurdaddy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

I'm a little bit darkly amused by this back-and-forth on Meyerson, since he credits the key point of the article to someone else: "Michael Cembalest, the chief investment officer of J.P. Morgan Chase.." I don't know him, but I tend to doubt he's an avowed Marxist.

It's Cembalest, not Meyerson, who says that “US labor compensation is now at a 50-year low relative to both company sales and US GDP.”

Its Meyerson who took a STATISTIC produced by Chase and equated that with "wages are too low". Cembalest doesnt make value judgements.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

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Post #: 11

RE: Post Columnist: Wages Are Too Low - 7/20/2011 4:46:26 PM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

What part of his argument does his backstory negate?

You dont need his backstory to negate the argument. There is no such thing as "wages are too low", wages are a function of the market. But as an avowed Marxist he would never recognize that.

You spin out so much nonsense it's truly hard to keep up.

"Wages are a function of the market".

What the hell does that even mean?

Are you trying to say that when a company posts record profits they reward their workers with salary increases?

Tell me about all those employees of Apple who received fatter paychecks.

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 7/20/2011 4:55:10 PM >

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

Post #: 12

RE: Post Columnist: Wages Are Too Low - 7/20/2011 4:48:15 PM

willbeurdaddy

Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

What part of his argument does his backstory negate?

You dont need his backstory to negate the argument. There is no such thing as "wages are too low", wages are a function of the market. But as an avowed Marxist he would never recognize that.

You spin out so much nonsense it's truly hard to keep up.

"Wages are a function of the market".

What the hell does that even mean?

Are you trying to say that when a company posts record profits they reward their workers with salary increases and bonuses?

Maybe on Wall Street but not at the companies most people work for.

you might need to brush up on economics a bit. Hint: labor is a market

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to rulemylife)

Post #: 13

RE: Post Columnist: Wages Are Too Low - 7/20/2011 7:32:06 PM

Anaxagoras

Posts: 3086
Joined: 5/9/2009
From: Eire
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
You dont need his backstory to negate the argument. There is no such thing as "wages are too low", wages are a function of the market. But as an avowed Marxist he would never recognize that.

"Wages are a function of the market".

What the hell does that even mean?

Are you trying to say that when a company posts record profits they reward their workers with salary increases?

Tell me about all those employees of Apple who received fatter paychecks.

There is some truth to that if I get the point. An economy subject to high inflation drives wages up. It leads to a sort of spiraling where costs go up across the board leading to further inflation. That's one of the problems with economies in Western Europe for example. Now they are seriously uncompetitive in a recession. Conversely if US wages are too low it should help being the economy out of recession, all else being equal. I know that wouldn't be much comfort for the man on the street but in the long term it could be a positive.

(in reply to rulemylife)

Post #: 14

RE: Post Columnist: Wages Are Too Low - 7/20/2011 7:35:17 PM

willbeurdaddy

Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
You dont need his backstory to negate the argument. There is no such thing as "wages are too low", wages are a function of the market. But as an avowed Marxist he would never recognize that.

"Wages are a function of the market".

What the hell does that even mean?

Are you trying to say that when a company posts record profits they reward their workers with salary increases?

Tell me about all those employees of Apple who received fatter paychecks.

There is some truth to that if I get the point. An economy subject to high inflation drives wages up. It leads to a sort of spiraling where costs go up across the board leading to further inflation. That's one of the problems with economies in Western Europe for example. Now they are seriously uncompetitive in a recession. Conversely if US wages are too low it should help being the economy out of recession, all else being equal. I know that wouldn't be much comfort for the man on the street but in the long term it could be a positive.

Nothing to do with inflation, Im talking about real wages. Its supply and demand like any other market, unless the supply is artificially restricted (eg unions) or demand is artificially restricted (eg minimum wage).

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

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Post #: 15

RE: Post Columnist: Wages Are Too Low - 7/20/2011 7:55:31 PM

Musicmystery

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Well, technically, and I agree to a point. But labor, as Peter Drucker explains, is a resource, not merely a cost. Businesses that know how to best utilize that often undertapped resource are going to value it differently than those seeing it as just cost.

And adding value is excellent market practice. Far too many in business can't see beyond cutting cost, a great opportunity cost.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

Post #: 16

RE: Post Columnist: Wages Are Too Low - 7/20/2011 7:58:34 PM

willbeurdaddy

Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Well, technically, and I agree to a point. But labor, as Peter Drucker explains, is a resource, not merely a cost. Businesses that know how to best utilize that often undertapped resource are going to value it differently than those seeing it as just cost.

And adding value is excellent market practice. Far too many in business can't see beyond cutting cost, a great opportunity cost.

No "but" necessary. Good business practices on utilization of resources is not inconsistent with supply and demand for those resources.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

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Post #: 17

RE: Post Columnist: Wages Are Too Low - 7/20/2011 8:18:38 PM

Anaxagoras

Posts: 3086
Joined: 5/9/2009
From: Eire
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
You dont need his backstory to negate the argument. There is no such thing as "wages are too low", wages are a function of the market. But as an avowed Marxist he would never recognize that.

"Wages are a function of the market".

What the hell does that even mean?

Are you trying to say that when a company posts record profits they reward their workers with salary increases?

Tell me about all those employees of Apple who received fatter paychecks.

There is some truth to that if I get the point. An economy subject to high inflation drives wages up. It leads to a sort of spiraling where costs go up across the board leading to further inflation. That's one of the problems with economies in Western Europe for example. Now they are seriously uncompetitive in a recession. Conversely if US wages are too low it should help being the economy out of recession, all else being equal. I know that wouldn't be much comfort for the man on the street but in the long term it could be a positive.

Nothing to do with inflation, Im talking about real wages. Its supply and demand like any other market, unless the supply is artificially restricted (eg unions) or demand is artificially restricted (eg minimum wage).

Indeed, supply and demand. I should have added that inflation was just one aspect of wages in relation to the market. I think inflation is an issue too when it comes to inetrnational markets as it restricts labour "demand" in certain countries.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

Post #: 18

RE: Post Columnist: Wages Are Too Low - 7/20/2011 8:22:29 PM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

What part of his argument does his backstory negate?

You dont need his backstory to negate the argument. There is no such thing as "wages are too low", wages are a function of the market. But as an avowed Marxist he would never recognize that.

Tell me why you think Henry Ford was wrong.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

Post #: 19

RE: Post Columnist: Wages Are Too Low - 7/20/2011 8:25:19 PM

willbeurdaddy

Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
You dont need his backstory to negate the argument. There is no such thing as "wages are too low", wages are a function of the market. But as an avowed Marxist he would never recognize that.

"Wages are a function of the market".

What the hell does that even mean?

Are you trying to say that when a company posts record profits they reward their workers with salary increases?

Tell me about all those employees of Apple who received fatter paychecks.

There is some truth to that if I get the point. An economy subject to high inflation drives wages up. It leads to a sort of spiraling where costs go up across the board leading to further inflation. That's one of the problems with economies in Western Europe for example. Now they are seriously uncompetitive in a recession. Conversely if US wages are too low it should help being the economy out of recession, all else being equal. I know that wouldn't be much comfort for the man on the street but in the long term it could be a positive.

Nothing to do with inflation, Im talking about real wages. Its supply and demand like any other market, unless the supply is artificially restricted (eg unions) or demand is artificially restricted (eg minimum wage).

Indeed, supply and demand. I should have added that inflation was just one aspect of wages in relation to the market. I think inflation is an issue too when it comes to inetrnational markets as it restricts labour "demand" in certain countries.

Inflation can have that effect depending on the industry and whether the workforce is skilled or unskilled.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to Anaxagoras)

Post #: 20

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