RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (Full Version)

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Moonhead -> RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 7:05:33 AM)

I doubt it. They barely accepted that excuse for the Harvey Milk shooting forty odd years ago.



LadyConstanze -> RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 7:06:03 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

He didn't, as such: the kids were at the labour party's summer camp, so he presumably saw them as offspring of the loathsome integrationist scum in the government's majority party, rather than children. The tendency of extremist nutcases to rationalise their activities by dehumanising their targets is pretty well documented, sadly.


But it is not often that they manage to rationalise a direct attack on children. The IRA were bombing civilians, but to the best of my knowledge even they didn't target schools and kids! Extremist nutcases usually refer to children as "casualties in their fight" to make them feel less guilty about it, but even they have trouble directly targeting kids.



nephandi -> RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 7:07:01 AM)

Greetings

quote:

You'll always have moderate, informative media and the sensationalist media, the sensationalists will not listen to anything or only pay lip service to moderating themselves, which is a sad state, they'll only change if their way of "reporting" will become unprofitable.


I guess you are right on that.

quote:

I'm not too familiar with Norwegian politics (Dad's from Sweden - don't let's get started on the old Norway/Sweden squabbles) but from the little I've seen, violent was nothing I would have ever attributed to Norway or one of their youth organizations. This guy clearly seems to be insane, I just don't think that this should get him a pass. I'm with Aswad, an unfortunate accident would be most welcome.


No these youth organizations are not violent, they are just politically interested kids. I do not know if the man was insane, I think he hated so much that it twisted his view of reality, now off course that can been seen as a type of insanity to I guess. I agree to, an unfortunate accident would be welcome, Norway do not need that man to ever walk the street again and whatever or not he was insane do not change things, if he was not insane then he is a monster and if he was insane then I might feel a bit of sympathy, but he do not get any free pass, he is like a rabid dog, and nothing more.

quote:

At first the media did report that the cause was unknown. A few articles I saw including a lengthy one from the Guardian which many people regard as something of an apologist for Islam also followed that train of thought (the link I posted on another thread to one of their articles was radically edited last night!). Was it premature? Probably. Was it unjustified? I don't think so. Norway has been subject to a large number of threats from Islamic sources. I saw this article http://www.newsinenglish.no/2011/02/28/terror-threat-now-more-serious/ which clearly identifies Islamic extremism as a serious threat. The perception that the attack was possibly from such a source is understandable especially after Norway was strongly tied to the Danish cartoons fiasco in 2006. This was partly the reason for the terrorist attacks in Sweden last Christmas too.


I do not see a problem with suspecting Islamic Fundamentalists, they have after all threatened us on several occasions. I mean if I Tom says to Lissy that he is going to track her down and hit her over the head with a baseball bat several times and then Lissy is found dead it is natural to suspect that Tom did it. What I find problematic is when some media all but went out and said that it was Islamic fundamentalists, not voicing suspicious but leveling accusations.

I wish you both well



Moonhead -> RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 7:10:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

He didn't, as such: the kids were at the labour party's summer camp, so he presumably saw them as offspring of the loathsome integrationist scum in the government's majority party, rather than children. The tendency of extremist nutcases to rationalise their activities by dehumanising their targets is pretty well documented, sadly.


But it is not often that they manage to rationalise a direct attack on children. The IRA were bombing civilians, but to the best of my knowledge even they didn't target schools and kids! Extremist nutcases usually refer to children as "casualties in their fight" to make them feel less guilty about it, but even they have trouble directly targeting kids.


As nephandi and Fightderecto have said, though, the kids in this case were the children of Labour party members, at a party run youth camp the cretin has described as a liberal indoctrination centre. Batshit and vile, but understandable on a paranoid white supremacist level.



LadyConstanze -> RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 7:11:22 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto


As nephandi mentioned, it is believed that the Norwegian terrorist may have attacked the kids at the camp becuase he believed the camp was training the kids to be liberals.




You have to be fucked up beyond belief to start throwing bombs and killing people because you disagree with their political leanings, but I believe that somebody who can put together a plan and pull it off has to be able to think at least rational to a certain degree, or else he would have been caught before he could have done any harm. Now from his (admittedly fucked up) point of view, wouldn't it have made more sense to target the leaders and teachers in the camp? The ones that "train" the kids to be those oh so very dangerous liberals?



mnottertail -> RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 7:17:17 AM)

short answer cuz I don't want to go into this at any lenght.

it controls the future as well as the present.  Kill the leaders you paralyze them today.

Kill the children and you paralyze them today while they deal with grief and you remove the Labor party future.

That would be the basic concept.



Moonhead -> RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 7:18:11 AM)

They're better able to defend themselves than a bunch of teens and tweenies.



FirstQuaker -> RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 7:19:08 AM)

Attacking your enemies children ,either directly or indirectl;y has been a time honored tradition most places on the planet.

Europe is no exception. Even Canada with its short history has used it as a national policy.

"nits breed lice" is an old English saying.

That madmen might ape various governmental war crimes should be no surprise.



mnottertail -> RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 7:22:24 AM)

The lion kills the cubs.



Owner59 -> RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 7:26:29 AM)

There are other examples directly linking rightwing extremest talk and actual violence, like glen beck`s abuse of free speech and rightwing nutters listening who then acted on it.

"Giffords shooting: the sheriff who turned the focus on rightwing rhetoric"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jan/10/giffords-shooting-sheriff-rightwing-rhetoric

And

http://law.scu.edu/blog/heafeyheadnotes/church-shooting-in-tn-targeted-liberals-and-gays.cfm

And

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,393103,00.html

Adkisson, a former private in the United States Army from 1974 to 1977, says that he was motivated by hatred of Democrats, liberals, African Americans and homosexuals.[2][9][10] According to a sworn affidavit by one of the officers who interviewed Adkisson on July 27, 2008:[3]



“

During the interview Adkisson stated that he had targeted the church because of its liberal teachings and his belief that all liberals should be killed because they were ruining the country, and that he felt that the Democrats had tied his country's hands in the war on terror and they had ruined every institution in America with the aid of major media outlets. Adkisson made statements that because he could not get to the leaders of the liberal movement that he would then target those that had voted them into office. Adkisson stated that he had held these beliefs for about the last ten years.

”


Additionally, one of Adkisson's former wives had been a member (in the 1990s) of the church where the attack occurred.[11]

Adkisson's manifesto[12] also cited the inability to find a job, and that his food stamps were being cut. His manifesto stated that he intended to keep shooting until police arrived and expected to be killed by police. Adkisson had a waist satchel with more ammunition, totaling 76 shells of #4 shot.

In his manifesto, Adkisson also included the Democratic members of the House and Senate,[12] and the 100 People Who Are Screwing Up America [12] of Bernard Goldberg in his list of wished-for targets.


Thanks douche-bag Goldberg.

and of course......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgRwAc3HosE

Not sure that clinic bombers are terrorists.



LadyConstanze -> RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 7:36:08 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

short answer cuz I don't want to go into this at any lenght.

it controls the future as well as the present.  Kill the leaders you paralyze them today.

Kill the children and you paralyze them today while they deal with grief and you remove the Labor party future.

That would be the basic concept.


But those extremists always have a moral cause (or rather like to pretend they do), they don't want to be seen as villains and criminals but as fighters for their cause, by killing children they are putting that at risk and alienate their more moderate supporters (usually the ones that donate money to their cause) - which is why I think most terrorists don't target children.



juliaoceania -> RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 7:37:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FirstQuaker

The idea one can interpret some deep political meanings out the doings of a madman, and then attribute this mileage to one's political opponents appears to a popular one.

If the idiot had stopped at McDonald's on the way, some health food paladins would come out of the woodwork and blame junk food on the outrage



Are you suggesting that individuals do not act violently in order to achieve political goals?



nephandi -> RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 7:47:12 AM)

Greetings

quote:

But those extremists always have a moral cause (or rather like to pretend they do), they don't want to be seen as villains and criminals but as fighters for their cause, by killing children they are putting that at risk and alienate their more moderate supporters (usually the ones that donate money to their cause) - which is why I think most terrorists don't target children.


The problem is if people is fanatical enough they do not care who they alienate, they think that there are three types of people, those that are right, that think like them, the only kind that matters, the weak people, those that share their views though a bit more moderately, and the enemy and that is all there is and they do not care about anyone else than those that are as crazy as they are.

I wish you well.



Moonhead -> RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 7:49:57 AM)

There's also no evidence that the attack was run by an organisation who desire political support rather than just a lone nutcase with a chip on his shoulder throwing a tantrum.



LadyConstanze -> RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 7:52:45 AM)

The attacks were rather too effective (in a sad way) to be pulled off by a single loon.



FirstQuaker -> RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 7:53:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


quote:

ORIGINAL: FirstQuaker

The idea one can interpret some deep political meanings out the doings of a madman, and then attribute this mileage to one's political opponents appears to a popular one.

If the idiot had stopped at McDonald's on the way, some health food paladins would come out of the woodwork and blame junk food on the outrage



Are you suggesting that individuals do not act violently in order to achieve political goals?



In the case we are discussing, just what political objective can you say the man actually hoped to accomplish with this action? Sane individials actually set a goals and take actions to fulfill it, not commit acts that have no tangible results, and only serve to infuriate the public against them.

He could have broke into the Oslo pound and hanged a hundred dogs for all the good it did him, or his beliefs.





Moonhead -> RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 7:54:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

The attacks were rather too effective (in a sad way) to be pulled off by a single loon.


Two car bombs and lot of shooting at people who couldn't shoot back?



LadyConstanze -> RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 7:56:23 AM)

Yes, organizing it, executing it, etc. I would be really surprised if a single person without help would have done all that...



mnottertail -> RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 7:56:39 AM)

from al-Aswad.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_3778869/mpage_2/key_fremover%252Cser%252Cjeg/tm.htm#3779541



Moonhead -> RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 8:01:22 AM)

There's still no evidence been found that anybody was propping him up though, and lone nutcases can cause a lot of damage on their own. Just look at McVeigh...



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