RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist...

RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (Full Version)

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juliaoceania -> RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 8:30:35 AM)
quote: In the case we are discussing, just what political objective can you say the man actually hoped to accomplish with this action? I refer you to this point made by another poster quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail short answer cuz I don't want to go into this at any lenght. it controls the future as well as the present. Kill the leaders you paralyze them today. Kill the children and you paralyze them today while they deal with grief and you remove the Labor party future. That would be the basic concept. When you strike at people's hearts, their children, you strike a deep psychological blow. As a parent I can tell you it would destroy any group of people psychologically to deal with such devastation... and it would warn others that their foes were willing to do anything to defeat them. In other words, if you join or support the labor party, your children are fair game... I do not believe this guy acted alone....

FirstQuaker -> RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 8:54:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: In the case we are discussing, just what political objective can you say the man actually hoped to accomplish with this action? I refer you to this point made by another poster quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail short answer cuz I don't want to go into this at any lenght. it controls the future as well as the present. Kill the leaders you paralyze them today. Kill the children and you paralyze them today while they deal with grief and you remove the Labor party future. That would be the basic concept. When you strike at people's hearts, their children, you strike a deep psychological blow. As a parent I can tell you it would destroy any group of people psychologically to deal with such devastation... and it would warn others that their foes were willing to do anything to defeat them. In other words, if you join or support the labor party, your children are fair game... I do not believe this guy acted alone.... As for the first, if he had killed every child in the camp, it would not have suddenly made the majority Labor party in Norway defunct, make the Muslims leave, nor would doing such a thing add anything else to his cause save heaps of contempt. As for this idiot acting alone, yes, I really can see him as a lone wolf. The Norwegian police, and the people of Norway will certainly be very motivated to find any one who might have helped plan, execute, or even those thinking they somehow profited from this outrage. We will see what they find.

nephandi -> RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 9:17:32 AM)
Greetings It is surprising if it was a single man who did it, and the Police is not excluding the possibility that there might be another, however sadly enough it is possible for one man to do that level of damage, and in either case it do not seam to be the work of an organization tough there might have been two or three loons working together. I wish you well

LadyConstanze -> RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 9:27:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: nephandi Greetings It is surprising if it was a single man who did it, and the Police is not excluding the possibility that there might be another, however sadly enough it is possible for one man to do that level of damage, and in either case it do not seam to be the work of an organization tough there might have been two or three loons working together. I wish you well It's about as disturbing as it is reassuring, isn't it? Disturbing at the level that one or just a few lunatics can wreck that much damage, reassuring that at least there is not an organization behind it and that it will hopefully remain a single case, however tragic. I possibly phrased that badly, but it's disturbing and sickening on a really deep level, and expressing that in another language is quite difficult when trying to control your feelings of shock and disgust at the same time.

nephandi -> RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 9:44:08 AM)
Greetings Yes I do not know if it is more or less scary that it is only one or at most a small handful of people who have done so much damage who have killed so many people to me that is allmost more scary. You expressed yourself fine. I find it hard today myself to express really how I feel for this is just unbelievable. I wish you well

Anaxagoras -> RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 11:11:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: nephandi quote: At first the media did report that the cause was unknown. A few articles I saw including a lengthy one from the Guardian which many people regard as something of an apologist for Islam also followed that train of thought (the link I posted on another thread to one of their articles was radically edited last night!). Was it premature? Probably. Was it unjustified? I don't think so. Norway has been subject to a large number of threats from Islamic sources. I saw this article http://www.newsinenglish.no/2011/02/28/terror-threat-now-more-serious/ which clearly identifies Islamic extremism as a serious threat. The perception that the attack was possibly from such a source is understandable especially after Norway was strongly tied to the Danish cartoons fiasco in 2006. This was partly the reason for the terrorist attacks in Sweden last Christmas too. I do not see a problem with suspecting Islamic Fundamentalists, they have after all threatened us on several occasions. I mean if I Tom says to Lissy that he is going to track her down and hit her over the head with a baseball bat several times and then Lissy is found dead it is natural to suspect that Tom did it. What I find problematic is when some media all but went out and said that it was Islamic fundamentalists, not voicing suspicious but leveling accusations. If that's what happened with some media reports actually levelling accusations then that was wrong. I didn't see that myself when I looked up a few mainstream sources like AP and the BBC. It would be interesting to know at what scale this could have been done by the mainstream media. A lasting effects of large acts of terror like yesterday is the fear it leaves behind in a society. If it was only a small number of people then hopefully it can be swept up very qickly. BTW just a thougth not really related to the present tragedy - there are youth political groups all over the world but I understand it is something of a tradition in Norway where it is taken to a higher level. Surely young people should approach politics in their own way to make up their minds independently of sources of strong influence? It seems a bit like children being force-fed religion, which I also dislike.

Aswad -> RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 12:42:37 PM)
It IS taken to a higher level. The Labor Party used to have strong ties to the USSR, and it shows in their social structure, even now. The Labor Party Youth, which was targetted, is an organization which fits right into that, and to a much larger extent than for the other parties. Calling them liberal is like calling Satan a practicing Catholic. A thoroughly disappointing thread. Health, al-Aswad.

LadyConstanze -> RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 12:48:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aswad It IS taken to a higher level. The Labor Party used to have strong ties to the USSR, and it shows in their social structure, even now. The Labor Party Youth, which was targetted, is an organization which fits right into that, and to a much larger extent than for the other parties. Calling them liberal is like calling Satan a practicing Catholic. A thoroughly disappointing thread. Health, al-Aswad. To be honest, I don't think the political leanings of the targeted children has anything to do with the fact that what the person did was wrong and horrible on all levels. Btw Satan is a fallen angel in the Catholic mythology, Lucifer means "The Bright One"

popeye1250 -> RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 12:51:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze The attacks were rather too effective (in a sad way) to be pulled off by a single loon. Lady C, that crossed my mind too. That's a lot of organisation and logistics for only one person to do! However I can understand why noone would want to associate with this guy if he was crazy as a shithouse rat. Also, that being a summer camp wouldn't they have rifle and pistol ranges to teach the kids marksmanship? Had a few people gotten hold of some guns there the outcome would have been considerably different.

pahunkboy -> RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 1:13:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rockspider This thing is absolutely weird and contradictory. If it had been an Islamic terrorist it would certainly had made a lot more sense, with his choice of targets. In a perverted way I am glad they caught him alive so we might find out of what his motivation was. This incident wakes the same feelings here in Scandinavia as the Oklahoma city bombing did in USA. We have always known the ultra wing is active here, but really seen them as a bunch of harmless clowns. That is obviously going to change now. This is also the biggest terror/criminal incident since WW2 in the whole of Scandinavia, so the chock is enormous here. I, as everybody else is watching the news carefully but in reality the police is saying very little. I think you are on the right track here. Ask the questions! The attack seems to me as a mode of influencing some sort of political agenda. Maybe the want airport scanners everywhere- because now blue eye blonds are dangerous terrorists. For real? Come on now. All the world is a stage and this act is FOR SOME TYPE OF POLITICAL OUTCOME.

Rule -> RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 1:26:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 Had a few people gotten hold of some guns there the outcome would have been considerably different. If they had all attacked him even with bare hands from all sides at once, he would have made far fewer victims, too. Unfortunately, people in such cases respond according to their evolutionary programming as prey confronted with a predator. Sit still, do not move and hope that somebody else does move and attracts the predators attention. Once the predator has made his kill, everything can return to normal. That works for a tribe of apes when threatened by a leopard or lion, which are satisfied by a single kill, but it does not work in cases involving abnormal, blood-lust driven killers. What works for the tribe is to immediately counter-attack such a killer, even if by doing so one has to sacrifice his own life. Do not hide and sit still, because then you are sitting targets, easily offed. Move about, yell, throw stones, attack, do whatever distracts the killer.

Aswad -> RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 1:36:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 Also, that being a summer camp wouldn't they have rifle and pistol ranges to teach the kids marksmanship? Their party first instituted the policy of the "Broken Rifle". They're some of the strongest advocates of gun control and gun bans in Norway. Health, al-Aswad.

Real0ne -> RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 1:37:58 PM)
something governments have down to a science!

Aswad -> RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 1:39:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze To be honest, I don't think the political leanings of the targeted children has anything to do with the fact that what the person did was wrong and horrible on all levels. Never said it did. I said it might be why they were targetted. quote: Btw Satan is a fallen angel in the Catholic mythology, Lucifer means "The Bright One" The bringer of light, actually. Hence, morning star (venus). I'm not unfamiliar with Catholic mythology. I still doubt Satan's a Catholic. Christian? Probably. Catholic? No. That's earthbound affairs. Health, al-Aswad.

Real0ne -> RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 1:40:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy quote: ORIGINAL: rockspider This thing is absolutely weird and contradictory. If it had been an Islamic terrorist it would certainly had made a lot more sense, with his choice of targets. In a perverted way I am glad they caught him alive so we might find out of what his motivation was. This incident wakes the same feelings here in Scandinavia as the Oklahoma city bombing did in USA. We have always known the ultra wing is active here, but really seen them as a bunch of harmless clowns. That is obviously going to change now. This is also the biggest terror/criminal incident since WW2 in the whole of Scandinavia, so the chock is enormous here. I, as everybody else is watching the news carefully but in reality the police is saying very little. I think you are on the right track here. Ask the questions! The attack seems to me as a mode of influencing some sort of political agenda. Maybe the want airport scanners everywhere- because now blue eye blonds are dangerous terrorists. For real? Come on now. All the world is a stage and this act is FOR SOME TYPE OF POLITICAL OUTCOME. yep and when you make as in oppress in the name of "the people" the source of political "DEMOCRATIC FORCE" they now become s target rather than the "People" behind the scenes pulling all the strings.

Real0ne -> RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 1:45:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania I do not believe this guy acted alone.... they rarely do. ruby went to prison how long after insuring that angle of truth could not come out by murdering oswald. Just like the real target in the az shooting was the judge, who was going to rule against the banks, but of course the focus was all on the representative. History has a way of getting completely fucked up and people have a way looking at anything but the truth which is most often quite ugleee.

popeye1250 -> RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 2:33:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aswad quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 Also, that being a summer camp wouldn't they have rifle and pistol ranges to teach the kids marksmanship? Their party first instituted the policy of the "Broken Rifle". They're some of the strongest advocates of gun control and gun bans in Norway. Health, al-Aswad. Wow! They just got proved WRONG, in Spades! They said it took the Police 1 and 1/2 hours just to get there and then they had to commandeer boats to get to the island! Are the Police even armed in Norway? Just because "no-one" has guns doesn't meean you're "safe." It's like a Tiger chasing a lamb, the outcome is 100% certain. Just look at the U.S., "gun control" NEVER works!

Fightdirecto -> RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 2:49:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania When you strike at people's hearts, their children, you strike a deep psychological blow. As a parent I can tell you it would destroy any group of people psychologically to deal with such devastation... and it would warn others that their foes were willing to do anything to defeat them. In other words, if you join or support the labor party, your children are fair game... One of the reasons I become very much "pro-choice" stems from the fact that, if my daughter had not been late for her doctor's appointment for her annual general check-up, she would have been in the doctor's office when "pro-life" terrorist John Salvi came in and shot several people because he had been told the doctor performed legal abortions. John Salvi To the "pro-life" movement, my daughter's death would have been "necessary collateral damage". The "pro-life" movement struck at this parent's heart that day in December 1994 - and I will never forget. Even today, I would never be armed in the presence of a "pro-lifer" - because I'd be inclined to gut-shoot them so they died a slow, painful death. I am sure that there are a few Norwegian parents who would like to shoot this terrorist - and other Norwegian Right-Wingers like him. It would be wrong - but I would understand if they did.

popeye1250 -> RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 3:05:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania When you strike at people's hearts, their children, you strike a deep psychological blow. As a parent I can tell you it would destroy any group of people psychologically to deal with such devastation... and it would warn others that their foes were willing to do anything to defeat them. In other words, if you join or support the labor party, your children are fair game... One of the reasons I become very much "pro-choice" stems from the fact that, if my daughter had not been late for her doctor's appointment for her annual general check-up, she would have been in the doctor's office when "pro-life" terrorist John Salvi came in and shot several people because he had been told the doctor performed legal abortions. John Salvi To the "pro-life" movement, my daughter's death would have been "necessary collateral damage". The "pro-life" movement struck at this parent's heart that day in December 1994 - and I will never forget. Even today, I would never be armed in the presence of a "pro-lifer" - because I'd be inclined to gut-shoot them so they died a slow, painful death. I am sure that there are a few Norwegian parents who would like to shoot this terrorist - and other Norwegian Right-Wingers like him. It would be wrong - but I would understand if they did. Jeese, I remember that wacko! I lived about 400 yards away from him on Winnicunett rd in Hampton, N.H. when that happened! He worked at a beauty salon down near the beach.

Real0ne -> RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 3:14:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania When you strike at people's hearts, their children, you strike a deep psychological blow. As a parent I can tell you it would destroy any group of people psychologically to deal with such devastation... and it would warn others that their foes were willing to do anything to defeat them. In other words, if you join or support the labor party, your children are fair game... One of the reasons I become very much "pro-choice" stems from the fact that, if my daughter had not been late for her doctor's appointment for her annual general check-up, she would have been in the doctor's office when "pro-life" terrorist John Salvi came in and shot several people because he had been told the doctor performed legal abortions. John Salvi To the "pro-life" movement, my daughter's death would have been "necessary collateral damage". The "pro-life" movement struck at this parent's heart that day in December 1994 - and I will never forget. Even today, I would never be armed in the presence of a "pro-lifer" - because I'd be inclined to gut-shoot them so they died a slow, painful death. I am sure that there are a few Norwegian parents who would like to shoot this terrorist - and other Norwegian Right-Wingers like him. It would be wrong - but I would understand if they did. ywh ywh yeh... people on the streets of america talk about zee coming revolushun and if the tards do it they will invariably waste the wrong people. I can just see the dumbshits running around wasting congress while the real people who are not even in this country that pull the strings sit back and say the same thing. collateral damage.

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