Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Financial Reality


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Financial Reality Page: <<   < prev  4 5 [6] 7 8   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Financial Reality - 7/24/2011 2:57:27 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

I say cuts in benefits to the big three are not possible.


OK. So where does the $1.27 trillion shortfall come from?

Or do we keep adding it to the $14 trillion debt each year?

Pull out of Iraq and Afghanistan completely. Reduce other defence spending by 50%. Eliminate the bush tax cuts. Eliminate the capital gains tax and treat capital gains as regular income.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: frustrated with President Obama - 7/24/2011 2:58:02 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

Hey lockedaway please trim your quotes, your last post is really hard to read.

Zeph

I find his posts unreadable. That's because I have him on ignore. Give it a shot, you all.


_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to zephyroftheNorth)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Financial Reality - 7/24/2011 2:59:33 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

MM,

I'm convinced that any funds made available to the federal government due to tax increases will go towards increased spending, not paying down the debt...
Firm

edited for spelling and clarity



What a dumb comment. Then there really is no reason to cut expenditures because any money saved will be inevitably spent by your account.

Are you really this stupid? Really? wtf? Then there is no hope and there is no reason to do anything at all.



_____________________________



(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Financial Reality - 7/24/2011 3:02:24 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250



Nail, head.



Please feel free to remove the one that is sticking out of your's at anytime...You might justbe able to have a lucid and complete thought.

Firm's statement was idiotic at best.

Firm is suggesting that all monies will be spent elsewhere instead of lowering the debt. What a dumb thing to say.

_____________________________



(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: Financial Reality - 7/24/2011 3:13:12 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

I agree that Social Security doesn't contribute to the deficit. I'm curious about MM's ideas on what specific areas should be cut.

I'm just pointing out that people who say we can do one or the other (taxes or spending) aren't being realistic.

For example, if you want to keep everything and raise taxes, you'd have to more than double the current income tax to cover the deficit alone, still not touching the debt.

My own personal take? Cut defense. Raise SS ages to 64/67/70. Medicaid is not so simple--but needs overhaul/reform (raising retirement age will help some automatically, as some people will still be insured at work). Eliminate the SS tax break and add an extra half a percent. Eliminate all Bush tax cuts, all levels. Institute a national VAT.

And understand this is definitely NOT going to help the economy in the short run!

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 7/24/2011 3:17:36 PM >

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: Financial Reality - 7/24/2011 3:18:44 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

I agree that Social Security doesn't contribute to the deficit. I'm curious about MM's ideas on what specific areas should be cut.

I'm just pointing out that people who say we can do one or the other (taxes or spending) aren't being realistic.

For example, if you want to keep everything and raise taxes, you'd have to more than double the current income tax to cover the deficit alone, still not touching the debt.



Income Tax is only one revenue stream... There's a whole lot of Chinese goods which could be tariffed correctly and bring in a whole lot of revenue.

We've discussed the estate tax, and how anyone who really believes in Ayn Rand should be comfortable with the heirs having to actually prove themselves and earn their own fortunes... I a big fan of not building aircraft carriers, myself. Maybe if we had a decent energy policy we wouldn't have all these issues, since given nearly free energy, no other economy could out-compete us...



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Financial Reality - 7/24/2011 3:22:53 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

Cut everything by a bit more than 1/3 (as we can't cut our debt service), and there's no need to raise taxes.


You're missing the distinction between discretionary and mandatory spending. All we can cut immediately is all discretionary spending, including defense.


Maybe it is time to reconsider the idea of discretionary and mandatory spending. 

Along with a lot of other things in our government that obviously aren't working out too well.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: Financial Reality - 7/24/2011 3:23:46 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

What a dumb comment. Then there really is no reason to cut expenditures because any money saved will be inevitably spent by your account.

Are you really this stupid? Really? wtf? Then there is no hope and there is no reason to do anything at all.

Hush, domi ... the adults are talking ... 

Firm


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Financial Reality - 7/24/2011 3:24:19 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

There's a whole lot of Chinese goods which could be tariffed correctly and bring in a whole lot of revenue.


Total Chinese imports are just under $33 billion.

You're gonna need a lot more than that to get to $1.27 trillion.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Financial Reality - 7/24/2011 3:25:39 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

There's a whole lot of Chinese goods which could be tariffed correctly and bring in a whole lot of revenue.


Total Chinese imports are just under $33 billion.

You're gonna need a lot more than that to get to $1.27 trillion.


Did you see the part about the aircraft carriers and energy policy?

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: Financial Reality - 7/24/2011 3:28:57 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

I agree that Social Security doesn't contribute to the deficit. I'm curious about MM's ideas on what specific areas should be cut.

I'm just pointing out that people who say we can do one or the other (taxes or spending) aren't being realistic.

For example, if you want to keep everything and raise taxes, you'd have to more than double the current income tax to cover the deficit alone, still not touching the debt.

My own personal take? Cut defense. Raise SS ages to 64/67/70. Medicaid is not so simple--but needs overhaul/reform (raising retirement age will help some automatically, as some people will still be insured at work). Eliminate the SS tax break and add an extra half a percent. Eliminate all Bush tax cuts, all levels. Institute a national VAT.

And understand this is definitely NOT going to help the economy in the short run!

This course of action may well be defensible and work to some extent ... however, it simply masks the symptoms.  It does not cure the disease.

Firm


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: Financial Reality - 7/24/2011 3:34:01 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline 		MM, where is the link to the graphic in post #81? I can't seem to find it.

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Financial Reality - 7/24/2011 3:36:14 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

How much would we save if we completely pulled out of Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Yemen and NATO completely?


About $600 billion.

Less than half the deficit (but about half).



OK. So where does the $1.27 trillion shortfall come from?

Or do we keep adding it to the $14 trillion debt each year?





I'm not saying we don't have a debt problem. I'm asking where we put all the homeless people cuts to benefits in the big three will create. I'm asking what you think about innocent people dying slow painful deaths from chronic illness while death row inmates get painless lethal injection.

1. Social Security benefits shouldn't be cut. They don't contribute to the debt because they're obtained through payroll taxes.

2. Pull out of Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Yemen and NATO and save that $600 billion.

3. Don't cut benefits to Medicare and Medicaid. Replace both programs with single-payer health care.




< Message edited by defiantbadgirl -- 7/24/2011 3:37:18 PM >

_____________________________


Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


Collared by MartinSpankalot May 13 2008

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: Financial Reality - 7/24/2011 3:38:16 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

I agree that Social Security doesn't contribute to the deficit. I'm curious about MM's ideas on what specific areas should be cut.

I'm just pointing out that people who say we can do one or the other (taxes or spending) aren't being realistic.

For example, if you want to keep everything and raise taxes, you'd have to more than double the current income tax to cover the deficit alone, still not touching the debt.

My own personal take? Cut defense. Raise SS ages to 64/67/70. Medicaid is not so simple--but needs overhaul/reform (raising retirement age will help some automatically, as some people will still be insured at work). Eliminate the SS tax break and add an extra half a percent. Eliminate all Bush tax cuts, all levels. Institute a national VAT.

And understand this is definitely NOT going to help the economy in the short run!

Why do you want to raise the SS age threshholds, and not the contribution cutoff?

Why should it be at $108K (or whatever it is now)? Why have a cutoff at all?



_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: Financial Reality - 7/24/2011 3:39:56 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		No disagreement, however; when you suffer a major accident and have been laying in the ditch like that for some hours (in our case a little over thirty some odd years) you need shock treatment immediately, if you still have a pulse and are breathing.

The rest are secondary concerns to saving a life.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Financial Reality - 7/24/2011 3:43:29 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

1. Social Security benefits shouldn't be cut. They don't contribute to the debt because they're obtained through payroll taxes.

3. Don't cut benefits to Medicare and Medicaid. Replace both programs with single-payer health care.


1.  But we have borrowed from the surplus, the one that should be carrying us thru right now, and the outlay is greater than the income.

That is a tough one.

3.  And allow government to bid the prices on pharma, insurance, et al...  

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: Financial Reality - 7/24/2011 3:55:41 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

Cut everything by a bit more than 1/3 (as we can't cut our debt service), and there's no need to raise taxes.


You're missing the distinction between discretionary and mandatory spending. All we can cut immediately is all discretionary spending, including defense.


Maybe it is time to reconsider the idea of discretionary and mandatory spending. 

Along with a lot of other things in our government that obviously aren't working out too well.


well, there is a concept called "zero based budgeting", imo, that is what govts should be doing all the time. You would get rid of all the spend-it-or-lose-it mentality... jmo

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Financial Reality - 7/24/2011 4:05:16 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

1. Social Security benefits shouldn't be cut. They don't contribute to the debt because they're obtained through payroll taxes.

3. Don't cut benefits to Medicare and Medicaid. Replace both programs with single-payer health care.


1.  But we have borrowed from the surplus, the one that should be carrying us thru right now, and the outlay is greater than the income.

That is a tough one.

3.  And allow government to bid the prices on pharma, insurance, et al...  

In Canada, drug cos are restricted in what they can charge for meds, thats why many (or most? all?) drugs costs less there. Of course, the population is 1/10th of the US so the drug cos dont see it as a huge market compared to the US. If the govt tried to do that here, I expect it would have a huge fight on its hands and the drug cos would be buying... ummm... I mean lobbying hard.

Also the govt in Canada/provinces decides what they will reasonably pay for medical care and that is why an operation there can cost about half or even a third of what the same operation costs in the US, at least from the pricing i have been able to look at.

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Financial Reality - 7/24/2011 4:05:24 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		There are some pluses to it, but the propensity for governmental obfuscation could make it unworkable and many many things would be rough budgeting, i.e:

How many people are going to come on to soc sec this year, when and what are their individual moneys going to be?    

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Financial Reality - 7/24/2011 4:07:44 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

1. Social Security benefits shouldn't be cut. They don't contribute to the debt because they're obtained through payroll taxes.

3. Don't cut benefits to Medicare and Medicaid. Replace both programs with single-payer health care.


1.  But we have borrowed from the surplus, the one that should be carrying us thru right now, and the outlay is greater than the income.

That is a tough one.

3.  And allow government to bid the prices on pharma, insurance, et al...  

In Canada, drug cos are restricted in what they can charge for meds, thats why many (or most? all?) drugs costs less there. Of course, the population is 1/10th of the US so the drug cos dont see it as a huge market compared to the US. If the govt tried to do that here, I expect it would have a huge fight on its hands and the drug cos would be buying... ummm... I mean lobbying hard.

Also the govt in Canada/provinces decides what they will reasonably pay for medical care and that is why an operation there can cost about half or even a third of what the same operation costs in the US, at least from the pricing i have been able to look at.


And we had a hella fight about it already....hopefully we can revisit that, and that would be a great deal of 'found' money in essence right there..............not enough for the goal, but it would drop costs considerably in those programs. 

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 120
Page:   <<   < prev  4 5 [6] 7 8   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Financial Reality Page: <<   < prev  4 5 [6] 7 8   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.109