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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

There are some pluses to it, but the propensity for governmental obfuscation could make it unworkable and many many things would be rough budgeting, i.e:

How many people are going to come on to soc sec this year, when and what are their individual moneys going to be?    

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Capitalism, and lack of oversight (we really ain't that big, in terms of doers). 

The really big cons come in time of war.  That is where there is a vast panorama for fleecing the government.

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

My own personal take? Cut defense. Raise SS ages to 64/67/70. Medicaid is not so simple--but needs overhaul/reform (raising retirement age will help some automatically, as some people will still be insured at work). Eliminate the SS tax break and add an extra half a percent. Eliminate all Bush tax cuts, all levels. Institute a national VAT.

And understand this is definitely NOT going to help the economy in the short run!

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ORIGINAL: erieangel

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ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Someone somewhere gave an analogy that it's like you and your Republican friends all phone up and order some pizza. The delivery guy comes to the door, you get everyone together to pitch in for the pizza you all agreed on to buy, and the Republican friends now refuse to pay for the food they ordered previously.

There is joke in which somebody gives a plate of 12 cookies to a rich guy, a lobbyist and a liberal. The rich guy takes 11 cookies then tells the lobbyist to watch out because the liberal is trying to take his cookie.

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ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

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ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

I agree that Social Security doesn't contribute to the deficit. I'm curious about MM's ideas on what specific areas should be cut.

I'm just pointing out that people who say we can do one or the other (taxes or spending) aren't being realistic.

For example, if you want to keep everything and raise taxes, you'd have to more than double the current income tax to cover the deficit alone, still not touching the debt.

My own personal take? Cut defense. Raise SS ages to 64/67/70. Medicaid is not so simple--but needs overhaul/reform (raising retirement age will help some automatically, as some people will still be insured at work). Eliminate the SS tax break and add an extra half a percent. Eliminate all Bush tax cuts, all levels. Institute a national VAT.

And understand this is definitely NOT going to help the economy in the short run!

This course of action may well be defensible and work to some extent ... however, it simply masks the symptoms.  It does not cure the disease.

Firm

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ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

My own personal take? Cut defense. Raise SS ages to 64/67/70. Medicaid is not so simple--but needs overhaul/reform (raising retirement age will help some automatically, as some people will still be insured at work). Eliminate the SS tax break and add an extra half a percent. Eliminate all Bush tax cuts, all levels. Institute a national VAT.

And understand this is definitely NOT going to help the economy in the short run!

We may have different definitions for the word CUT. To me, a CUT in social security means decreasing the amount retirees receive. Raising the retirement age is a bad idea. Too many businesses are getting rid of and refusing to hire older workers. Raising the contribution cut off is a much better plan. I know I keep repeating myself about creating more homeless and innocents dying slow painful deaths while murderers get painless lethal injections, but cuts to Medicare and Medicaid will cause this to happen. Such barbarity should never be considered an option. Single-payer health care is the only humane option. I agree with eliminating tax breaks for the wealthy. I agree with ending the Bush tax cuts, but not on all levels. Minimum wage workers can't afford to pay taxes and the earned income credit they receive is often needed to repair or replace their only means of transportation. People who are forced to work out of town because there are no jobs in town can't take the bus. I definitely agree with cutting military spending.

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ORIGINAL: farglebargle

War and Medical Care. Simple.

Disband the War Department.

Single Payer, Universal Medicare. No more health insurance companies fucking up service delivery and driving up costs.

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ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

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ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

I agree that Social Security doesn't contribute to the deficit. I'm curious about MM's ideas on what specific areas should be cut.

I'm just pointing out that people who say we can do one or the other (taxes or spending) aren't being realistic.

For example, if you want to keep everything and raise taxes, you'd have to more than double the current income tax to cover the deficit alone, still not touching the debt.

My own personal take? Cut defense. Raise SS ages to 64/67/70. Medicaid is not so simple--but needs overhaul/reform (raising retirement age will help some automatically, as some people will still be insured at work). Eliminate the SS tax break and add an extra half a percent. Eliminate all Bush tax cuts, all levels. Institute a national VAT.

And understand this is definitely NOT going to help the economy in the short run!

Why do you want to raise the SS age threshholds, and not the contribution cutoff?

Why should it be at $108K (or whatever it is now)? Why have a cutoff at all?

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
Then you are going to continue with yearly deficits and continually grow the national debt.

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ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

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How much would we save if we completely pulled out of Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Yemen and NATO completely?

About $600 billion.

Less than half the deficit (but about half).



OK. So where does the $1.27 trillion shortfall come from?

Or do we keep adding it to the $14 trillion debt each year?

I'm not saying we don't have a debt problem. I'm asking where we put all the homeless people cuts to benefits in the big three will create. I'm asking what you think about innocent people dying slow painful deaths from chronic illness while death row inmates get painless lethal injection.

1. Social Security benefits shouldn't be cut. They don't contribute to the debt because they're obtained through payroll taxes.

2. Pull out of Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Yemen and NATO and save that $600 billion.

3. Don't cut benefits to Medicare and Medicaid. Replace both programs with single-payer health care.

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Maybe it is time to reconsider the idea of discretionary and mandatory spending.

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ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

MM, where is the link to the graphic in post #81? I can't seem to find it.