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RE: Why did I get topped from the bottom? - 7/24/2011 7:00:32 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig
OK, that makes sense, perfect sense. It's pretty much the old "I'm a sub but not your sub" idea.

Thanks NV.

----Hanners, you have mail.



Yeah, that!  I didn't even think of it that way lol.  And my pleasure, Arpig.


_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Why did I get topped from the bottom? - 7/24/2011 7:09:48 PM   
DecadentDesire


Posts: 234
Joined: 6/18/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig
Yeah you would, you have a bad habit of just dismissing those who disagree with you or twisting what you said around so you can claim you said what they said, depending on who the poster is.


Well, I do love irony all much as I love it when people tell me what my own true motives are so let's get this started.

quote:

That's wonderful, except that the point she made is NOT what you had been saying at all.


Wonderful. I am simply thrilled that you know more about what I am trying to communicate then I do.

In light of that, could you provide me with a little more help?

How is this...

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
The guy didn't lose control because he never *had* control.


....different from this...

quote:

ORIGINAL: DecadentDesire
The good news is that since you didn't have one you didn't get topped from the bottom.


...or this.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DecadentDesire
Of course, none of this is applicable because you weren't in a relationship with a clear authority dynamic in place.


I only ask, because as the person who wrote it, it seems I was trying to express the same thing. But you obviously know more than I...

quote:


Maybe you should chose your words better, so they say what you mean the first time and nobody has to correct you.


I thought I said exactly what I meant, but since your reading comprehension could not be wrong, I will take the blame.



< Message edited by DecadentDesire -- 7/24/2011 7:11:15 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Why did I get topped from the bottom? - 7/24/2011 7:21:18 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline
quote:

I thought I said exactly what I meant, but since your reading comprehension could not be wrong, I will take the blame.
It seems I wasn't the only one with reading comprehension problems though. So, my advice to you stands.

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(in reply to DecadentDesire)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Why did I get topped from the bottom? - 7/24/2011 7:28:31 PM   
DecadentDesire


Posts: 234
Joined: 6/18/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

I thought I said exactly what I meant, but since your reading comprehension could not be wrong, I will take the blame.
It seems I wasn't the only one with reading comprehension problems though. So, my advice to you stands.


Yeah, but here is the thing. I like to think that I taper my words with phrases such as "based on what I have read..." or "the way I see it..." in order to give credit to the fact that I don't always get it right. (Hell, sometimes I will even go as far as to say such pathetic things as "I don't really understand where our misunderstanding is" in the hopes of coming to some kind of common ground)

And that happens. I am working with a handicap with just written word and I don't always get it right.

But when it does happen, I am in a better position to change my stance (a.k.a, "twisting words around" in your position).

Now, if I took a stance of "The way I read your post is completely wrong and I am now going to tell you what you, the person who wrote it, was really saying", well...that would kind of leave me with my head up my own ass when I was wrong.

That's why I don't particularly enjoy these little exchanges with you or Hannah who take this "The way I fucking read your post is right and fuck off your wrong" type of attitude toward discussion.

So, there you go. That's my advice to you, since we are both being the best of friends and helping each other out.


< Message edited by DecadentDesire -- 7/24/2011 7:32:11 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Why did I get topped from the bottom? - 7/24/2011 10:15:56 PM   
HannahLynHeather


Posts: 2950
Joined: 4/4/2011
From: where it's at
Status: offline
quote:

Care to explain just HOW, his dominance is something within her?
OK, you have a Dom, and you have two fucking subs. the dom approaches them both, first sub gets all giddy and needs fresh fucking panties, the second one thinks she wants a restraining order. so is the guy a dom or a fucking creeper. he hasn't changed, he's the exact same fuck, but one sub sees dominance, and the other doesn't. so he doesn't have it, it's not in him, it's in the fucking sub's head. that's where "his" dominance is.

which is my point, so much of what doms preach is simply based on the wrong fucking interpretation of what is actually going on. the vast majority of  d/s happens exclusively in the sub's head and has little or fuck all to do with the dom. take the non-maso who endures pain as an example. ok, he gets off on it, he's a right fucking yummy sadist, but if she doesn't get off on it at some level, he's stuck surfing bdsmlibrary.com with a box of fucking kleenex by his side.

say you're a dominant person, (male or female, makes no fucking diff). you have the urge to be dominant in your everyday life. if, and this is a big fucking if, you're lucky, you might have a job or the wealth that allows you to indulge that urge. but if not, well to fucking bad, sucks to be you, right?

now take a person with a submissive nature. he or she can submit at will, there's fuck all that can stop them. people will not submit willy nilly to a dominant personality, but they will walk all the fuck over a submissive one if they aren't prevented from doing so.

that's why each of us subs/switches has a long list of d-types we think are assholes, and only a short list of subs we think the same about, and those subs we generally don't fucking consider really subs. the asshole d-types are just that because they try to dominate when they have no fucking dominance.

i'm heather's dream domme, and other people's crazy abusive psycho bitch. i fucking ooze dominance to her, and utterly lack it to them. wtff? what gives?

e2a
quote:

It's pretty much the old "I'm a sub but not your sub" idea.
yeah, but it goes a little deeper, think of the inverse: "you're a dom but your not my dom". well, what that really fucking means is "you THINK your a dom, but your not really".

how many times have you heard the fucking phrase "self-proclaimed dom"? and how many times have you heard the phrase "self-proclaimed sub"?

bet the first fucking outnumbers the second by several magnitudes.


< Message edited by HannahLynHeather -- 7/24/2011 10:24:06 PM >

_____________________________

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My Twitter: http://twitter.com/HannahFuck

i hope you enjoyed the post, and as always my friends....have a nice day

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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Why did I get topped from the bottom? - 7/24/2011 10:59:29 PM   
erieangel


Posts: 2237
Joined: 6/19/2011
Status: offline 		Nice synopsis, Hannah...the first paragraph said it all

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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Why did I get topped from the bottom? - 7/24/2011 11:08:38 PM   
HannahLynHeather


Posts: 2950
Joined: 4/4/2011
From: where it's at
Status: offline 		yeah, well, you know how it is sometimes when you get rolling - you can't shut up.
thanks btw.

_____________________________

clique? i don't need no stinking clique!

fuck a duck ~w. disney

My Twitter: http://twitter.com/HannahFuck

i hope you enjoyed the post, and as always my friends....have a nice day

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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Why did I get topped from the bottom? - 7/25/2011 6:41:56 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DecadentDesire
The OP was using "topping from the bottom" as a phrase to describe being manipulated by his girl in his supposed D/S relationship.

LOL. Of course, when you take off your BDSM glasses, it gets hard as hell to differentiate "topping from the bottom" and "manipulative behavior". The truth is that her willingness to be manipulative and his willingness to be manipulated are still a relationship concern.... D/s or not.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nueva
The most domliest of all domly doms might not have the power to dominate *me*, because I have to feel it within, in order for him to be able to have any power/control/dominance over me.

I don't really agree with this at all. This is the BDSM view of dominance which is based upon agreements and consent. It's not the view of dominance I employ which is a bit more primal... two people entered into a confrontation. One of them came out on top. That one is the dominant one. No agreement required. It's not a chemistry thing. It's a dominance and capability thing. I personally believe that both dominance and submission are real things and like all real things they do not need anyone to agree with them to exist and function.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to DecadentDesire)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Why did I get topped from the bottom? - 7/25/2011 6:45:59 AM   
littlekitten1


Posts: 160
Status: offline 		If a dominant guy fell down in a forest where no one could sub to him. Was he truly dominant?


...

Sorry ._.

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Why did I get topped from the bottom? - 7/25/2011 6:49:05 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlekitten1

If a dominant guy fell down in a forest where no one could sub to him. Was he truly dominant?






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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Why did I get topped from the bottom? - 7/25/2011 6:58:00 AM   
AngelControlsU


Posts: 45
Joined: 2/8/2009
From: Minneapolis, MN
Status: offline 		So I am guessing The8thForay is now going to be a one post wonder, We surly scared him off with our warm welcome. Good thing I was not deterred as easily. It just annoys me when someone makes a post, then doesn’t like the response they get and doesn't have the guts to say anything about it, defend themselves or even say fuck you to everyone. I think most peoples consensus is right, this guy is not very dom what so ever.

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Why did I get topped from the bottom? - 7/25/2011 7:00:22 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlekitten1
If a dominant guy fell down in a forest where no one could sub to him. Was he truly dominant?

In my world? absolutely.


_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to littlekitten1)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Why did I get topped from the bottom? - 7/25/2011 7:13:47 AM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nueva
The most domliest of all domly doms might not have the power to dominate *me*, because I have to feel it within, in order for him to be able to have any power/control/dominance over me.

I don't really agree with this at all. This is the BDSM view of dominance which is based upon agreements and consent. It's not the view of dominance I employ which is a bit more primal... two people entered into a confrontation. One of them came out on top. That one is the dominant one. No agreement required. It's not a chemistry thing. It's a dominance and capability thing. I personally believe that both dominance and submission are real things and like all real things they do not need anyone to agree with them to exist and function.


Yeah I think we're in disagreement on this one.  Some dominance is in something of a forced environment (like work), in which I yield to the boss if I want to keep my job - doesn't mean I don't push back or provide evidence of my point, it just means I know when to recognize when it's appropriate to pull back.

Relationships don't (or at least I hope they don't) operate with a base of confrontation, so at least in my world, it's not a battle of wills.  I won't enter into a relationship with someone whose philosophies and decisions are contrary to what I believe is right, so there's no way that person could have a large measure of dominance over me.  And that's what I meant above.  There are dominant men and women on CM whose contributions I admire, but that doesn't mean I feel any measure of submission toward them, and therefore they would not have the kind of power and control over me that it would take to lead a healthy and successful D/s or M/s relationship with me.  I simply wouldn't respond to it.

What you're talking about above (or at least what I'm getting from it) is more along the lines of specific circumstances, not an overall picture.  Pulling back in a confrontation does not equate to submission in the larger picture.  It doesn't mean long-term submission, which is what I'm talking about (ie; relationships).  It just means choosing one's battles and therefore choosing not to continue a particular confrontation that isn't going to have a payoff worth having the battle over.


_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Why did I get topped from the bottom? - 7/25/2011 7:37:22 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida
Yeah I think we're in disagreement on this one.

Yup, we are disagreeing. But man, that actually makes me feel good... in the exception that proves the rule sort of way ~laughs~

Besides, I'm pretty well aware that the concepts I think about when I think of dominance and submission are not what is generally being talked about within BDSM circles.


_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Why did I get topped from the bottom? - 7/25/2011 8:24:52 AM   
Hisprettybaby


Posts: 781
Joined: 4/13/2011
From: Bellingham, WA U.S.A.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: The8thForay
But she also walked into our relationship out of a 10 yr failed marriage/relationship. She has no self worth, has been bulimic since 14, has compulsive workout issues, and was very bipolar. She was also an endorphin junkie.
It sounds like she was very messed up. Whacked out really. She could benefit from some in-depth psychotherapy, IMO.

As I look back, outside of the bedroom I treated us like a 50/50 relationship, I cherished her, took VERY good care of her every need, the things a man and Dom is supposed to do. The last month of our relationship we were the closest we had ever been, but, without it previously being discussed, when we had an argument she brought violence into an argument and pushed me to the point where I picked her up, and put her on a bathroom counter to calm her down.
Inserting violence into an argument is never good.

Then, I saw it- the sub space look. She pushed me to the point where she got me to react to her in our bf/gf relationship. I immediately left, and we haven't spoken since (2 months) we were together 7 months and was my first relationship in 6 yrs. I loved her like I have never loved another woman.
So you "loved her like you have never loved another woman," yet you immediately left? If you really loved her that much, why didn't you at least TALK?

Why did she top me, and How do I spot the warning signs? I loved the connection we had which was way more intense that a vanilla relationship. I want to continue with D/s but I won't have my heart broke like this again.
I'm trying to figure out where you were Dominant. IMO, it sounds like you just had a vanilla b/f relationship with a little kink thrown in only in the bedroom, but not D/s. So in that case you weren't "Topped" because you were never Dominant in the first place and she was never submissive. She may have been testing your limits, but she wasn't testing your Dominance cause it was never there. There's nothing wrong with vanilla and a little kink, but it is what it is and it's not what it's not and, from where I stand, it's not D/s.....unless I'm missing something. Oh, and also.....even if the relationship does include D/s, a person can try to Top from the bottom, but they can't get away with it unless the Dominant allows them to. In which case, just how Dominant were they anyway?

BTW, OP, where are you? There are three pages of replies so far and no more input from you after the first post. What's up?

~Hisprettybaby~





< Message edited by Hisprettybaby -- 7/25/2011 8:27:41 AM >

(in reply to The8thForay)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Why did I get topped from the bottom? - 7/25/2011 8:26:56 AM   
gungadin09


Posts: 3232
Joined: 3/19/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig
The misunderstanding comes from the fact that up until she made her point, you hadn't been making the same point at all. You had been saying something very different.


i thought DecadentDesire rebutted this argument very well in post #42. i noticed that instead of answering his rebuttal you just said "well, other people misunderstood too." In this case, the "other people" who misunderstood that DD had told the OP that he had NOT been topped from bottom because he was NOT in a D/s relationship to begin with... these other people seem to be yourself and LadyPact.
Hannah, as far as i can tell, was disagreeing with DD about something else.

Now, perhaps i, too, lack reading comprehension skills, but for the life of me i can't tell why DD's two quotes don't express EXACTLY the same sentiment as LadyPact's quote. Or, in other words, why this...

quote:

ORIGINAL: DecadentDesire
Well, the bad news is, based on how I define a D/s relationship, you didn't have a D/s relationship. The good news is that since you didn't have one you didn't get topped from the bottom.


and this...

quote:

ORIGINAL: DecadentDesire
Of course, none of this is applicable because you weren't in a relationship with a clear authority dynamic in place.


mean something different than this...

quote:

ORIGINAL:LadyPact
The guy didn't lose control because he never *had* control. In such, the 'topping from the bottom' phrase doesn't apply.


Color me pathetic, too, i guess, because i would have thought they meant exactly the same thing. Now...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig
Or at least, it comes across as that way from the words you chose to use to express yourself, though I'm sure you will deny you actually intended to say what those words express. Maybe you should chose your words better, so they say what you mean the first time and nobody has to correct you.


If we are taking a vote, i thought that the words were very clear in the first place, and i'm suprised that it was possible to misunderstand.
Furthermore, i'm willing to give DecadentDesire credit for the fact that *he* knows what he meant, and since he just clarified that he was agreeing with LadyPact, i'm suprised to see you contradict him that that's what he meant, especially since you provide no quote of his, in fact you provide no argument whatsoever, to support your contention that he was "twisting what he said around" in order to agree with LadyPact.

Now, i don't think i can be accused of favoritism. i like you Arpig, and i don't know anything about DecadentDesire since i have barely read any of his posts. Maybe DD does have a reputation for twisting words around, although i've never seen it. Maybe that's just because i haven't read enough of his posts. Maybe you could prove me wrong right now by providing a link to a thread where he did anythhing of the kind. If i'm wrong, i would gladly beg your pardon.

However, on *this* thread, i haven't seen him twist anything around, and you have avoided directly rebutting his argument that he didn't. If i were being cynical, i might say that it appears you're misunderstanding things *deliberately* because you just want to go off on somebody. But maybe i'm wrong. i will humbly apologise if you can find a quote on this thread that supports the idea that DecadentDesire mean to say that the OP really *did* have a D/s relationship, or that his sub really *was* topping from bottom.

pam

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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Why did I get topped from the bottom? - 7/25/2011 8:33:11 AM   
Rochsub2009


Posts: 2536
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: The8thForay

Why did she top me, and How do I spot the warning signs?........I want to continue with D/s but I won't have my heart broke like this again.


Ummmm, I'm a bit confused.  From what you wrote, it sounds like you were having kinky sex with a girl who was "crazy" by your own admission, but then when she acted "crazy", it freaked you out.  Why, since you already knew that she was crazy?

Secondly, you describe all of her faults, but you paint yourself as a saint.  Typically, both parties are partially at fault when a relationship disintegrates.  The fact that you seem to be accepting none of the blame is very telling. 

The first time she acted up a bit, you bolted.  You completely left the relationship.  That was real mature.  Then you claim that SHE broke YOUR heart (even though YOU were the one who walked out on the relationship without warning). 

Nothing that you described sounds like a D/s relationship.  Instead, it sounds like two crazy people got together, and craziness ensued.

Here's my advice:
  1. Grow up!
  2. Stop dating crazy women.
  3. Grow up!
  4. Learn what "topping from the bottom" means.
  5. Grow up!
  6. Stop walking out on relationships at the first sign of conflict.  ALL relationships have conflict.  Deal with it!
  7. Grow up!
  8. Take a look in the mirror and realize you're not perfect.  So stop blaming others for problems that you partially caused.
BTW, sorry if I repeated what others wrote, but I didn't feel like reading 3 pages of comments.

(in reply to The8thForay)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Why did I get topped from the bottom? - 7/25/2011 9:05:45 AM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		I am with you Nueva.  The OP's reaction was very cruel.  He knew this person was damaged, and did the thing that was most likely to damage her more. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

[
As for the OP, wow, you left the second things got bad, without another word.  That's rough. It's within your prerogative to do so, but you've taken a messed up woman you claim to have loved more than you've ever loved, and abandoned her without any explanation?  Why would you further mess someone up like that?  Here's the thing - it was your choice to take on someone with serious issues.  Sure, in retrospect, maybe it was a bad idea, but I'd think you might owe it to someone you loved and chose to be responsible for to at least explain where you were coming from.




_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: I Admit It I........ - 7/25/2011 9:58:42 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		This is a really great discussion!

We tend to speak about dominance as if it is a singular concept except, as this thread shows, it exists on many dimensions.

There is a person's social dominance. There is the emotional chemistry reaction between two people.

I think there are other dimensions as well. I think the level of emotional maturity as well as where they are in life.

So, a man who is a ceo but submissive in private. He might see a woman who evokes his submission but she is too immature, or perhaps not cultured enough and despite her evoking his submission he consciously chooses not to enter a relationship with her.

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Why did I get topped from the bottom? - 7/25/2011 10:21:53 AM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

Besides, I'm pretty well aware that the concepts I think about when I think of dominance and submission are not what is generally being talked about within BDSM circles.
quote:



But whether talked about and agreed upon or not, what you're basically saying is because you are dominant, you can dominate anyone whose dominance doesn't surpass your own. I'm not understanding that logic. From what I'm getting from your posts, you're saying if I were single I would be submissive to you, simply because you're dominant. I don't operate like that so I am absolutely in disagreement.

(I've totally messed up the quotes but can't fix then on my tiny iPhone window)

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 60
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