RE: Can Music Heal ? (Full Version)

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LadyConstanze -> RE: Can Music Heal ? (7/25/2011 2:49:23 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig
That would explain why India and the Middle East were such disease free places prior to the introduction of modern medicine eh?[8|]

If modern medicine is so effective, then why are nearly all people in western countries ill? Physician's waiting rooms are overflowing everywhere.



It would explain why most people in the Western world still have a higher life expectancy than in places where there is a shortage of modern medicine, despite the fact that we are the leaders in heart related diseases and obesity related health problems (again heart and joints to a great deal), problems that are due to our life-styles, eating too much, too much refined food, saturated fats, sugar, booze and not exercising enough.

If you're having trouble finding enough food to make sure you don't starve and your family doesn't starve, I don't think you have to worry about eating too much of what's bad for you because it's simply available in the supermarket and tempting.

Having said that, a lot of other traditional non-Western medicines have a lot to offer, but they're not right for every medical problem. Western medicine's drawback is that in a lot of cases they focus on the problem and not the complete picture, but that is also partially due to the expectancy the patient has. How many people come and see a doctor and just want the quick fix? The doctors could tell them over and over again they need to change their life-style, most just want a quick fix in the form of a pill. You can't blame our own lazyness on Western medicine.

As for music healing - I think in most cases it can't heal but it can help the healing process, a lot of operating theaters play music while the patient is out cold, because they realized it helps the healing process, the whole "body and mind" concept that Eastern medicine has becomes more integrated.



sunshinemiss -> RE: Can Music Heal ? (7/25/2011 3:06:52 AM)

Sunny
Quote of the Day
goes to
NuevaVida
for
music affects the soul,
and the soul affects how we heal.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_3782492/tm.htm



Musicmystery -> RE: Can Music Heal ? (7/25/2011 7:26:09 AM)

quote:

I recommend that you keep to stuff that you know


Not only is it "stuff that I know," but also stuff that I practice, successfully and with demonstrable results. It's why some hospitals have started using it as well. There are 65,000 practitioners world wide since this was discovered in 1993.

The world is a larger place than your mind alone, Rule.

By the way, before dismissing "pseudo-science," check the research and the results.

I recommend that before you offer critical advice, you first find out what you're talking about.




Musicmystery -> RE: Can Music Heal ? (7/25/2011 7:28:30 AM)

quote:

communicating via DNA


Look it up. It's how your DNA works in your own body.

All the cells have the same DNA. It's how each knows which kind of cell it's supposed to be.



Musicmystery -> RE: Can Music Heal ? (7/25/2011 7:29:47 AM)

quote:

No it can't heal.


I'm afraid healed people disagree with you.

We're been using it in the West alone for 50 years now.

There's an entire field of Music Therapy, several graduate programs, and it's more and more common at hospitals.




Musicmystery -> RE: Can Music Heal ? (7/25/2011 7:32:42 AM)

quote:

But even the best music and other psychological influences are not going to do jack shit for gallstones, diabetes and so forth.


Placebo effect research alone disputes this.

My favorite is the knee surgery one--half the patients had surgery, the others were just opened and closed, no surgery (but were told they had the surgery. They ALL reported the SAME improvements.

I'd consider that a psychological influence--and a significant one.



Musicmystery -> RE: Can Music Heal ? (7/25/2011 7:36:07 AM)

quote:

India and the Middle East


Consider, for example, hypnosis. It can be used to reduce or even replace anesthesia, even in brain surgery, in one experiment.

Folks, here's the thing about new research, now and always---it sounds weird when it's new, because it's....new.

The difference between new science and belief or pseudo-science is (1) methodology and (2) demonstrable and replicable results.



Musicmystery -> RE: Can Music Heal ? (7/25/2011 7:45:23 AM)

quote:

world music stuff


World music is an entirely different subject.

Javier Ramon Brito's stuff is pretty clearly "New Age," not world music. And whether Javier Ramon Brito's music can heal is another topic too...but the OP asked about music generally.

Here's a world music sample: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edCe9xsjOzE




Charnegui -> RE: Can Music Heal ? (7/25/2011 7:54:56 AM)

I think music contributes to the well being of humans!!

quote:

Physician's waiting rooms are overflowing everywhere.  

Because (and again my opinion) pharmacists and pill-makers invent diseases just to throw our money out of our pockets.
We are talked into it.

20 years ago, we suffered from depression of burn-out's nowadays we all do have borderline. Oke advancing insights may specify something, but then, we're overwhelmed with new medicins and all of them has to find a new market.

And this is just part of my opinion, will not bother you with my other beliefs.



LadyConstanze -> RE: Can Music Heal ? (7/25/2011 8:28:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

But even the best music and other psychological influences are not going to do jack shit for gallstones, diabetes and so forth.


Placebo effect research alone disputes this.

My favorite is the knee surgery one--half the patients had surgery, the others were just opened and closed, no surgery (but were told they had the surgery. They ALL reported the SAME improvements.

I'd consider that a psychological influence--and a significant one.


Oh if that would be true, then all doctors would stop doing knee surgery, it might have been ONE experiment, but it would be worth seeing what was wrong and hesitate to claim it will work on everybody and all the time.

The placebo effect can work, but if it would work reliably, we'd all be getting sugar pills and not real meds and the health insurances would be making a massive profit because a sugar pill is a lot cheaper than surgery or real medication!

Reminds me all all a bit of the LifeForce Performance Technology bracelets with those ridiculous holograms, was it last year or the year before that everybody swore they were responsible for success and what not, and then the company had to admit that they're absolutely useless and about as good as a rubber band.



JstAnotherSub -> RE: Can Music Heal ? (7/25/2011 8:31:04 AM)

It can damn sure heal me.

Gimme the beat boys



JstAnotherSub -> RE: Can Music Heal ? (7/25/2011 8:33:07 AM)

Our autism teacher swears by music. It takes those kids to a very special happy, calm place.
quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

When I was younger I spent a summer working with autistic kids.  There was a group of kids who were unable to communicate verbally.  One of them would become so frustrated he'd start punching himself in the face, screaming.  For an hour every day we'd put headphones on them and play music to them.  The change was immediate.  Calmness, quietness, smiles, and total responsiveness.

My nephew has aspberger's, and barouque music changes his demeanor instantly.  Cure?  Not in these cases, but definitely effective.

I'm a believer that music affects the soul, and the soul affects how we heal.





RapierFugue -> RE: Can Music Heal ? (7/25/2011 8:33:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Not only is it "stuff that I know," but also stuff that I practice, successfully and with demonstrable results.


You're talking specifically about music therapy, yes?



LadyConstanze -> RE: Can Music Heal ? (7/25/2011 8:40:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

Our autism teacher swears by music. It takes those kids to a very special happy, calm place.



I'm positive that it helps, especially with autistic kids, but healing? If it would heal, the kids wouldn't be suffering from autism anymore, but if something contributes to the well being, I'm all for it, I just find the claim that it heals a bit far fetched, soothing would possibly be a better word.



Anaxagoras -> RE: Can Music Heal ? (7/25/2011 9:11:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
quote:

world music stuff

World music is an entirely different subject.

Javier Ramon Brito's stuff is pretty clearly "New Age," not world music. And whether Javier Ramon Brito's music can heal is another topic too...but the OP asked about music generally.

Yeah they are different categories but just from what I have heard there is often a fair bit of stylistic crossover, sometimes mixed with ambient elements.



Musicmystery -> RE: Can Music Heal ? (7/25/2011 9:15:15 AM)

quote:

Oh if that would be true, then all doctors would stop doing knee surgery, it might have been ONE experiment, but it would be worth seeing what was wrong and hesitate to claim it will work on everybody and all the time.

The placebo effect can work, but if it would work reliably, we'd all be getting sugar pills and not real meds and the health insurances would be making a massive profit because a sugar pill is a lot cheaper than surgery or real medication!


It never ceases to amaze me how quickly people here go to bizarre either/or extremes.

Yes, it's one experiment. I said so myself. Did you expect me to list the hundreds of studies on the placebo effect? Do you expect everything that works to be used exclusively? My own knee problems were handled not with (1) anti-inflammatory drugs, which work, or (2) physical therapy, which works, but rather (3) a combination, which eliminated the problem.

This is a silly point. The placebo effect is extensively studies and documented, and for years. From there, we have the silly Perfectionist Fallacy. Why silly? Heart surgery doesn't always work, therefore it's not useful? Chemotherapy doesn't always work, therefore it's not useful?

Your comparison to holograms is just silly. Surely you can tell the difference between unsupported claims and documented research, with clear methodology and demonstrable, replicable results?



Musicmystery -> RE: Can Music Heal ? (7/25/2011 9:17:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Not only is it "stuff that I know," but also stuff that I practice, successfully and with demonstrable results.


You're talking specifically about music therapy, yes?


Music theory and information/vibration medicine (of which Reconnective Healing was the first to be developed and researched).

After all, the fundamental principles are the same, though they differ in implications. Trying to stick to the basic facts here.

Personally, I've seen success in treating back pain (L4 degenerative disk disease) and asthma...to the point of eliminating both. Much more outside of my own personal experience, of course.




lazarus1983 -> RE: Can Music Heal ? (7/25/2011 9:45:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

But even the best music and other psychological influences are not going to do jack shit for gallstones, diabetes and so forth.


Placebo effect research alone disputes this.

My favorite is the knee surgery one--half the patients had surgery, the others were just opened and closed, no surgery (but were told they had the surgery. They ALL reported the SAME improvements.

I'd consider that a psychological influence--and a significant one.


Do you have a link to this? Taking a placebo to such an extreme is quite fascinating.



Musicmystery -> RE: Can Music Heal ? (7/25/2011 9:52:07 AM)

quote:

Do you have a link to this?


There are several--it's a well-known study:

In 2002, researchers at the Houston VA Medical Center and at Baylor College of Medicine found that a common type of knee surgery known as debridement to be no more beneficial than a placebo surgery.

Here's an overview:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xex9wu_the-placebo-effect-knee-surgery_tech

The findings are published in the July 11 (2002) issue of The New England Journal of Medicine.

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa013259




RapierFugue -> RE: Can Music Heal ? (7/25/2011 9:59:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Music theory and information/vibration medicine (of which Reconnective Healing was the first to be developed and researched).


Ah ok, cool.

I wanted to make sure you were talking specifically about that, rather than the kind of horseshit that gets lumped in with it, like say homeopathy (the number one New Age horseshit "cure").

I don't know enough about Reconnective Healing to be able to comment - I know (a little) about Music Therapy, which has had some interesting results, but that's not the same thing.

PS: Having just Googled it, it appears to have a "tm" attached to it, which is never a good sign, but I'll keep an open mind until I've either read some studies or talked to a surgeon/consultant or 3.



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