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Church and God; One and the same? - 7/25/2011 12:55:29 PM

IrishMist

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The following is a short conversation that I have had with quite a few others over the years, most recently with a young lady who moved in next door to us this summer

Her: What church do you go to?
Me: I don't go to church.
Her: You don't believe in God?
Me: I never said I did not believe in God. I said I do not go to church.
Her: Same thing.

So, someone tell me please. Are the two really the same? Is not going to church a statement to others that you do not believe in God?

It is just not one person who has this reaction when I tell them that we don't go to church.

I am really curious. Is there some deep, unknown reason for people to assume this?

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RE: Church and God; One and the same? - 7/25/2011 1:03:41 PM

BKSir

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Matthew 6:5-6
And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

That's all I really have to say about that.

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RE: Church and God; One and the same? - 7/25/2011 1:20:38 PM

Hillwilliam

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Preachers HATE that chapter of Matthew. It means they won't be getting part of your paycheck in the collection plate this week.

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RE: Church and God; One and the same? - 7/25/2011 1:30:51 PM

rulemylife

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To me church and God are the same type of addiction as drugs or alcohol.

But the first two are socially acceptable.

There's really no difference though, it is just something to help you get through the day.

(in reply to IrishMist)

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RE: Church and God; One and the same? - 7/25/2011 1:46:41 PM

LanceHughes

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As a young man (infant through about age 18 or 19) I was an Episcopalian. We were taught the Church is the people, not the building. That might be a good reply to those that ask you.

ETA: And then there's the classic "Ann Lander's" answer: "Why would you ask such a personal question?" And if they reply "Well, I want to save your soul," you can say, "I'm okay in that area. Thanks for asking. Let's change the subject."

And, my personal favorite: "None of your damn business, now, is it? Please keep your nose out of my personal affairs." <subsititute "fucking" for "damn" if you are Hannah.>

< Message edited by LanceHughes -- 7/25/2011 1:51:47 PM >

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RE: Church and God; One and the same? - 7/25/2011 1:51:54 PM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist
So, someone tell me please. Are the two really the same? Is not going to church a statement to others that you do not believe in God?
It is just not one person who has this reaction when I tell them that we don't go to church.
I am really curious. Is there some deep, unknown reason for people to assume this?

Imo, no they are not the same at all.

I seem to recall that churches tend to encourage their membership of sheeple to bring more sheeple into their church (gotta keep that collection plate full)... soooo if you go to church,... well, its gotta be the right church, meaning theirs!

Maybe thats some sort of sales technique???... you dont go to church = you dont believe in God
if you do believe in God = must join their church

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RE: Church and God; One and the same? - 7/25/2011 1:54:37 PM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LanceHughes

As a young man (infant through about age 18 or 19) I was an Episcopalian. We were taught the Church is the people, not the building. That might be a good reply to those that ask you.

Yes, I can accept that if I am understanding you correctly.

I grew up going to Catholic school and participating in every type of church event.

And I enjoyed the community atmosphere.

But I lost my belief at an early age.

(in reply to LanceHughes)

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RE: Church and God; One and the same? - 7/25/2011 2:03:35 PM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
But I lost my belief at an early age.

Why did you lose it?

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RE: Church and God; One and the same? - 7/25/2011 3:49:29 PM

Aneirin

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Perhaps the same way as me, when I discovererd church was fuck all to do with god and more to do with the firm, i.e. from my experience god was not there, god was just a vehicle to use to keep the firm in operation, yeah catholic as well.

I once visited a church in Shropshire with a bunch of free bretheren friends, the church was basically a barn in a field surrounded by sheep. The barn church was from the past and was kept in good order by the National trust, but once inside I was impressed, it was just a whitewashed barn with pews, but no lectern, no ornamentation and no false idols to focus attention on, thus indicating to me those that in the past who came together to worship there sought the real thing. The barn church is I believe still a consecrated church

I also visiuted a church in Portugal and was astounded at the ornamentation inside and true to form it was there, the gruesome idols that catholicism seems to focus so intently on, and that indicating to me catholicism was a religion of fear, believe or the c firm will have your ass, there can be no dissenters to challenge the status quo.

Later I read articles that were denied by the church, articles that suggested something that I have come to believe, that god and the kingdom of heaven and hell reside within the person, what we experience is up to us and that purely by the way we think and feel. The church being the house of god, did it never occur perhaps god never had need for a house

But I suppose churches serve their purpose as museums and records of past craftspeople, who I believe put the best of their skill into churches.

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RE: Church and God; One and the same? - 7/25/2011 4:15:28 PM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
But I lost my belief at an early age.

Why did you lose it?

The same way I stopped believing in Santa.

(in reply to tj444)

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RE: Church and God; One and the same? - 7/25/2011 4:18:59 PM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
But I lost my belief at an early age.

Why did you lose it?

The same way I stopped believing in Santa.

there was no reason or reasons for you to no longer believe in God? for me there was a logical reason.

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

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RE: Church and God; One and the same? - 7/25/2011 4:24:40 PM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

there was no reason or reasons for you to no longer believe in God? for me there was a logical reason.

Blind belief has nothing to do with logic.

And that in itself is my reason.

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 7/25/2011 4:26:25 PM >

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RE: Church and God; One and the same? - 7/25/2011 4:25:01 PM

zephyroftheNorth

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I don't know about other people but you and I are on the same page here IrishMist. I have no problems with believing in God but not setting foot in a church. In fact I've no use for religion in any shape or form.

Saint Zeph

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RE: Church and God; One and the same? - 7/25/2011 4:40:50 PM

hardcybermaster

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The church has always been a way to control the masses. Your beliefs are yours and yours alone, The lady who told you that not going to church was the same as not believing in god is an idiot who has been brainwashed,probably by her parents and then by organised religon.
You and you alone decide what you believe in....it's called free will which is not something the church believes in

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RE: Church and God; One and the same? - 7/25/2011 4:48:12 PM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

there was no reason or reasons for you to no longer believe in God? for me there was a logical reason.

Blind belief has nothing to do with logic.

And that in itself is my reason.

And that is my logical reason not to believe.

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

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RE: Church and God; One and the same? - 7/25/2011 4:58:20 PM

Rule

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quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist
Her: You don't believe in God?
Me: I never said I did not believe in God. I said I do not go to church.
Her: Same thing.

So, someone tell me please. Are the two really the same?

No, they are not the same.

Not going to church means that one is not a member of a church community.

There are advantages to belonging to (whatever) community, especially spiritual/religious communities. Unfortunately, most such people are religious nuts - and that is a contraindication.

(in reply to IrishMist)

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RE: Church and God; One and the same? - 7/25/2011 4:59:27 PM

kalikshama

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quote:

Why did you lose it?

This is why my mother left the Catholic church: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_R._Lavigne

She's Unitarian now. I go occasionally and enjoy it.

The two most spiritually moving experiences I've had were in a redwood forest in CA and in a Buddhist temple in NY. A consecrated church is not necessary for me to feel close to Source.

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RE: Church and God; One and the same? - 7/25/2011 5:02:28 PM

dcnovice

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quote:

She's Unitarian now. I go occasionally and enjoy it.

UU rocks!

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it's never enough to keep up.

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INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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RE: Church and God; One and the same? - 7/25/2011 5:04:39 PM

kalikshama

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quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

Her: What church do you go to?
Me: I don't go to church.
Her: You don't believe in God?
Me: I never said I did not believe in God. I said I do not go to church.
Her: Same thing.

So, someone tell me please. Are the two really the same? Is not going to church a statement to others that you do not believe in God?

I perved you to see where you're from. Looks like your state is in the "bible-belt" so not a surprising attitude. No one has ever asked me this question before (I've lived in MA, NY, FL and Okinawa.)

(in reply to IrishMist)

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RE: Church and God; One and the same? - 7/25/2011 5:06:28 PM

hardcybermaster

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

Why did you lose it?

This is why my mother left the Catholic church: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_R._Lavigne

She's Unitarian now. I go occasionally and enjoy it.

The two most spiritually moving experiences I've had were in a redwood forest in CA and in a Buddhist temple in NY. A consecrated church is not necessary for me to feel close to Source.

why do you/your mother feel the need to belong to a group?
I am sure that there are evil Unitarians as well.

(in reply to kalikshama)

Post #: 20

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