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Jaywalking mother may get longer jail time than drunk d... - 7/25/2011 7:06:52 PM

barelynangel

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http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/mom-convicted-son-jaywalking-death-never-end-151356884.html

I am only posting the first two paragraphs of the full article above. I recommend reading the article.

quote:

A Marietta, Ga., mom who was convicted of jaywalking after her 4-year-old son was run over and killed in a hit-and-run said on the Today Show that the worst part of going to jail would be the separation from her two remaining kids.

Raquel Nelson was convicted of homicide by vehicle and reckless conduct by a jury and faces sentencing tomorrow. She can receive up to a three-year jail sentence, six times the stretch that Jerry Guy--who admitted to drinking before running over Nelson's son, A.J.--served.

What say you?

angel

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RE: Jaywalking mother may get longer jail time than dru... - 7/25/2011 7:27:02 PM

JstAnotherSub

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I have mixed feelings about it. Another child was killed, less than a mile from me as his mom was walking across a busy road with him in a stroller to catch a CCT bus. In the case near me, there was a crosswalk, with a light, just a little bit down the road. It also happened in the dark. She crossed right over a blind hill, on a road that has a 45 mph speed limit, and the man that hit them was inconsolable, as I would have been. He had not been drinking, was just heading for work.

So, do I think she should face jail? Yes, because it was ultimately her actions that caused the child to die. She had a crosswalk very close, and the apartments she lives in are on a major road, which also has a speed limit of 45 mph.

Do I think she should face a longer sentence than the man who hit them? Someone who has two previous hit and runs and admitted being DUI? No way in hell. He should be in jail for the rest of his life, at the very least.

Would I be able to sentence her to jail? I really do not know. I think she will be in a prison of regret for the rest of her days, I am not sure that adding bars would make it any worse a punishment.

I really wish Cobb police would write more jaywalking tickets. There is not a day that goes by that I do not see someone dangerously crossing a major road here in a totally idiotic fashion.

Tough case. I am glad I am not on the jury for this one.

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RE: Jaywalking mother may get longer jail time than dru... - 7/25/2011 7:51:17 PM

LafayetteLady

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I read the article, along with the link the article provided for more evidence.

Quite frankly, since you are one who frequently talks about how breaking the law is breaking the law, I wonder as to your motives for posting the article.

The whole reason that "jaywalking" is a "crime" and why we aren't supposed to do it is for safety purposes. This is both for the pedestrian and the driver. Yes, a driver needs to be alert to what's going on around him/her at all times and be wary that someone might dart out in the middle of traffic, but does that mean when a kid runs out in traffic they should be crucified for it? Yes, this guy had been drinking and taking pain killers. Is that the main reason he tragically hit the child? Or is the fact the child ran in the middle of the street no where near a crosswalk have something to do with it.

Yes, the guy has a "history" of hit and runs, but it doesn't lessen the mother's responsibility to cross safely with her children. She said she wanted to get her children inside as soon as possible, but it was mid April in Georgia, they weren't freezing by any stretch, so sorry, that just doesn't wash with me.

So yes, I think the guy should have served longer, but only because of the two previous offenses. I think the mother had a responsibility to make sure she was somewhere she could safely cross with her children.

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RE: Jaywalking mother may get longer jail time than dru... - 7/25/2011 8:04:51 PM

littlewonder

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Do I think she should have gotten a longer jail term than the drunk driver? No

Should she get equal to or maybe a little less? Yes

I had just commented on this to Master last week about how annoyed I get with people who just walk right in the middle of the streets around here and how one woman was crossing the street with her 3 yr old boy while cars were whizzing by them and she's cursing at the cars and the people all around her telling her to get out of the street.

People around here seem to think they own the streets and can cross whenever, whereever, however they like. It really pisses me off especially when I see it with young children involved. They tell their kids not to play in the streets but then show a bad example by crossing when they shouldn't. Great parental example.

So imo this mother was just as irresponsible as the driver and should have known better. She contributed to the death of her son just as much as the driver.

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RE: Jaywalking mother may get longer jail time than dru... - 7/25/2011 8:27:40 PM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel
What say you?

angel

I have seen many parents jaywalking with their little kids in tow and i cringe. They are taking their kids life in their hands just to save a few steps and teaching their kid its ok to do something that is illegal in many places. Then they wonder why little Johnny winds up in jail for stealing or whatever...

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RE: Jaywalking mother may get longer jail time than dru... - 7/25/2011 8:44:46 PM

slaveluci

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She should have duct-taped and chloroformed the kid, hidden the body and not said a word for 31 days until someone else discovered it. THAT you can get away with. Jaywalking? I say death penalty

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RE: Jaywalking mother may get longer jail time than dru... - 7/26/2011 2:28:42 AM

Kaliko

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FR

This is probably a flawed argument in some way, but I think jail should be punishment for people who are a danger to others - in a criminal way. Lots of people are stupid, but their intent is not to harm. I would hope that, this woman having gone through the awful pain of losing her child in this way, has learned a lesson. Community service, help/training in this area, something along those lines would be more fitting, I think. Of course, she broke the law and should pay for that somehow, but jail time seems excessive.

Have none of us ever jaywalked before? Those of us that have raised or are raising kids - have we really been 100% perfect all of the time? I know I can cringe at myself for the couple of times when maybe, in retrospect, something I did wasn't the best decision, but who would have known going in? I remember a few years ago when a child died in a movie theater choking on popcorn, and the parents were blasted for giving the child popcorn during a scary movie. What?? More recently, a mother was publicly criticized for taking her child to daycare in a snowstorm so she could go to work. Again, what?? It's so sad that an accident had to happen, but really...how many people do that every time it snows and nobody thinks twice about it.

Here's a thought....how many of us speed with a child in the car? I don't mean 100 miles an hour. I mean speed. Anything over the speed limit. Um...just about everyone. I can say this with some surety because it is quite rare to come upon a car going the speed limit on a highway, and I would have to safely assume that of the thousands of cars that that are going faster than the speed limit, at least some have children in them. How is that any different?

This kind of stuff actually worries me. Ticketed, fined, jail time for repeat offenders....sure. But jail time for someone who is not a criminal? Shit, I could go to jail tomorrow, I suppose, for letting my child skip a vegetable at dinner last night.

ETA - still stewing -
Ugh...it really irks me when I see (in my work) so many parents who genuinely don't even provide the basic level of love and care for their child and the horrible lives their children suffer for it, and then I see people who may very well be great parents who made a split second wrong decision and are deemed unfit.

< Message edited by Kaliko -- 7/26/2011 2:38:13 AM >

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RE: Jaywalking mother may get longer jail time than dru... - 7/26/2011 2:43:51 AM

LadyEternity

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I am enraged when I read articles on this subject. I cannot believe that a 3 time offender of hit and runs, drunk and high on pills, kills a child and serves only 6 months. Why in the world is everyone so up in arms against this mother, who would have had to walk nearly a mile with three small children to get to the nearest cross walk, when this man got away practically scott free for murder? My rapist served 6 years but this guy gets off after 3 hit and runs with 6 months??? Why didn't the city have a cross walk at an intersection in front of her apartment building by a busy bus stop in the first place? Yes, she should face some fine or minor punishment for her disobeying the law? But 2-3 years in jail? What about the other 2 kids who have not only lost a brother but are loosing their mother? I just don't know how to feel about this other than angry at a system that failed and let a murderer get off with a slap on the wrist.

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RE: Jaywalking mother may get longer jail time than dru... - 7/26/2011 4:46:11 AM

barelynangel

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LafayetteLady, my motives for posting the article?? Seriously?? -- because i thought it was interesting, i was curious as to what others think, for discussion? Are those all acceptable reasons for you -- or should i run my decisions to post an article for discussion past you next time?

I mean seriously with all of the bullshit threads you are bitching about my motive because i posted an article that speaks of what this one does for a discussion on a discussion board? Sorry but i think you need to take a chill pill and relax -- it's really not that deep.

angel

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RE: Jaywalking mother may get longer jail time than dru... - 7/26/2011 5:36:27 AM

barelynangel

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Okay, i deliberately didn't post my opinion to this article because i wanted to see what others thought..

My heart goes out to this mother -- by her decision to break the law, she inadvertently caused the death of her son by placing him in a dangerous situation wherein he did not win. My heart breaks for any mother who has to face that for the rest of her life.

However, this story has a couple things that irritate me -- 1. She was arrested A MONTH after her son's death and THREE DAYS after a news article was posted by the Atlanta newpaper that spoke about her son's death and her reaction to same. To me, there should have been an immediate arrest, and not one seemingly influenced by the newspaper. 2. It was dark and she sat i the middle of traffic with her children (9, 4 and 3) on the raised median -- ummm hello??? three young kids, at night, stopping in between 4 lanes of traffice -- no. 3. There was another case wherein they have charged a mother with involuntary manslaughter for her daughters death when she was jaywalking and the driver was not charged at all. Not sure the outcome of that case and 4) she seems to enjoy notariety -- first she speaks to a newspaper than she goes on TV.

Do i believe jaywalking is a crime? Nope, i think its a concept of safety and one when you have kids you should obey. Some towns and cities don't even have it as a written law but more of an understood one. to me jaywalkers do not have the right of way. However, this mother didn't just jaywalk, she also allowed her children to jaywalk with her and stand between 4 busy lanes of traffic at night. To me, that is a crime. Why? Because she has put her children in deliberate danger. The thing is, if she normally takes the bus and that is a frequent stop, something tells me this was not the first and only time she has jaywalked at that particular place with her kids -- it is a convenience. It was only this time that tragedy struck.

Yes, i do believe she is responsible for manslaughter. Do i believe she should go to jail - i think she should be sentenced to jail time but i also believe some of it could be suspended if she achieves certain things like community service etc. There are many people in jail who are away from their families, who regret their decisions, and have to live with what happened. That to me is not a sustainable plea in my eyes. Her son is dead because she made a very bad decision that took him from relative safety to danger.

What complicates this matter is that someone deliberately decided to drink and drive and by doing so they deliberately set out knowing they could harm someone by operating the vehicle illegally. I do not believe she should get more time than the driver. BUT, the difference is i believe the driver should have gotten a hell of a lot more than 6 months in jail for killing while DUI. I don't know what happened there or how he managed that.

It's interesting though that the other article cited in this one says that the public has been pretty unsympathetic with her plight. All in all, it is a hard and yes sympathetic type of case in a society wherein pedestrians have the right away is a motto we have all lived with. It also involves a small child. It's hard because we all have been where she was tired, with exhausted children just wanting to get home at night and now think of what it is like when you look at your house across the street, and a place to cross is over 3/10s of a mile away. It's hard because it wasn't a deliberately cruel act on her part. And it also involves an abhorrant for many of us circumstance a drunk driver.

angel

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< Message edited by barelynangel -- 7/26/2011 5:37:44 AM >

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RE: Jaywalking mother may get longer jail time than dru... - 7/26/2011 7:42:05 AM

DomImus

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I live three miles down the road from where that accident happened. I drive on that road every day and pass that spot and think about that accident often. The jaywalkers around here drive me crazy. I still see people crossing in fairly busy traffic even after nightfall at the very same spot where those people were hit.

I agree with the comment in the other article about the placement of the CCT bus stops. They often seem to be in the middle of a block or between two crosswalks. Perhaps part of the answer is to place the bus stops at intersections near the crosswalks.

I don't see any real benefit in jailing this woman although I feel the conviction was warranted. Suspend her sentence and let her get on with her family's life. She'll punish herself for the rest of her life for her negligence. I really don't think other jaywalkers are going to be deterred from the practice if this woman is sentenced to jail time.

I cannot for the life of me understand why that guy got off as relatively easy as he did as a repeat offender. And hit and run. It doesn't matter if you take his license. He'll still drive with a record like his. No respect for the law.

It's a problem all over Marietta on all of the major roads. As a driver you have to be super alert and very aware of your surroundings because people are just plain stupid and lazy - to put it bluntly.

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RE: Jaywalking mother may get longer jail time than dru... - 7/26/2011 7:54:40 AM

tj444

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I read this last year and thought this was most absurd- ticket people for jaywalking cuz thieves jaywalk... I wonder just how much its actually helped..

"LAPD Lt. Paul Vernon. "This is about preventing thefts and robberies. Jaywalking is often done by thieves, purse snatchers and robbery suspects to target their victims."
Vernon said such criminals often suddenly see a potential target and run across the road mid-block. To be better able to spot such suspects, the department wants to deter law-abiding citizens from such behavior, he said."

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/11/lapd-charging-jaywalkers-191-in-new-crackdown.html

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RE: Jaywalking mother may get longer jail time than dru... - 7/26/2011 7:59:40 AM

DomImus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

I read this last year and thought this was most absurd- ticket people for jaywalking cuz thieves jaywalk... I wonder just how much its actually helped..
"LAPD Lt. Paul Vernon. "This is about preventing thefts and robberies. Jaywalking is often done by thieves, purse snatchers and robbery suspects to target their victims."
Vernon said such criminals often suddenly see a potential target and run across the road mid-block. To be better able to spot such suspects, the department wants to deter law-abiding citizens from such behavior, he said."

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/11/lapd-charging-jaywalkers-191-in-new-crackdown.html

I don't know how much it has helped but in theory it makes perfect sense. If they have isolated a particular activity that criminals do in the commission of their crimes and they can prevent law abiding citizens from doing the same it reduces the amount of 'false alarms' and heightens the possibility of nabbing more criminals.

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RE: Jaywalking mother may get longer jail time than dru... - 7/26/2011 8:08:57 AM

DesFIP

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This is a college town. The kids dart out into the street from between parked cars, ipods on and oblivious to everything. We have crosswalks every block and signs reminding drivers that pedestrians in the crosswalk get the right of way. Yet it's happened to me more than once that suddenly some kid appears out of nowhere and I have to slam on my brakes not to hit them. And they don't even notice!

If there was a crosswalk, then that's where she should have crossed.

Jail sentences are up to the individual juries. For whatever reason, the two juries thought differently.

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RE: Jaywalking mother may get longer jail time than dru... - 7/26/2011 8:10:56 AM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomImus

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

I read this last year and thought this was most absurd- ticket people for jaywalking cuz thieves jaywalk... I wonder just how much its actually helped..
"LAPD Lt. Paul Vernon. "This is about preventing thefts and robberies. Jaywalking is often done by thieves, purse snatchers and robbery suspects to target their victims."
Vernon said such criminals often suddenly see a potential target and run across the road mid-block. To be better able to spot such suspects, the department wants to deter law-abiding citizens from such behavior, he said."

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/11/lapd-charging-jaywalkers-191-in-new-crackdown.html

I don't know how much it has helped but in theory it makes perfect sense. If they have isolated a particular activity that criminals do in the commission of their crimes and they can prevent law abiding citizens from doing the same it reduces the amount of 'false alarms' and heightens the possibility of nabbing more criminals.

Imo, it makes no sense cuz there will always be many more non-thieves that will jaywalk. If the cops want to catch thieves then go after thieves, set up sting after sting to catch them, instead of trying to stem a tide of non-thieving jaywalkers that will never end.

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RE: Jaywalking mother may get longer jail time than dru... - 7/26/2011 8:38:45 AM

gungadin09

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quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel
What say you?

i would judge these two independently of each other. Six months does not seem long enough for a drunk driver who causes a death. Three years seems appropriate for the part the mother played in endangering her child.

pam

ETA: He is guilty of hit and run, at least. But does "had been drinking that night and taking painkillers" necessarily mean drunk driving?

< Message edited by gungadin09 -- 7/26/2011 8:48:47 AM >

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RE: Jaywalking mother may get longer jail time than dru... - 7/26/2011 8:52:28 AM

littlewonder

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quote:

ETA: He is guilty of hit and run, at least. But does "had been drinking that night and taking painkillers" necessarily mean drunk driving?

Under the law, yes.

Mix both painkillers and even just one drink and he's going to be over the legal limit.

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RE: Jaywalking mother may get longer jail time than dru... - 7/26/2011 9:08:24 AM

JstAnotherSub

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fast reply

Mom sentenced and offered new trial

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RE: Jaywalking mother may get longer jail time than dru... - 7/26/2011 9:09:36 AM

gungadin09

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Okay, thanks.

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RE: Jaywalking mother may get longer jail time than dru... - 7/26/2011 9:11:59 AM

JstAnotherSub

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I couldn't find anything about him being convicted of DUI, but I suspect the only reason that didn't happen is because he left the scene and was not found until the next morning, when a friend called 911 and told them that he (Jerry) had been involved in the accident.

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