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RE: Small business owner says consumption = job creation - 7/29/2011 8:25:09 AM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

and thats where we need to draw the line between small business and large corporations.

One produces and is an economic engine, the other is a nation sucking leech. 

large corps are worse that leeches, they tend to grow by buying other corps and in so doing they cut jobs in duplicate areas...

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RE: Small business owner says consumption = job creation - 7/29/2011 8:26:25 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

oh for fuck's sake you are all so fucking blinded by your mindless partisan animosity that you can't even admit when somebody from the opposition says something your fucking ideology preaches. of course consumption creates jobs, and of course its the middle class that does the majority of the consuming. where the fuck do you think those rich fuckers get all that money you don't want to tax? i completely fail to see how you can disagree with that with a straight face.

no wonder i stay out of this idiot bin most of the time, i hear better quality debates between preschoolers discussing which brand of pull up is better.

sweet christ's holey feet! fucking doughnut holes, every last one of you.



Im not blinded by anything. I wouldnt waste my time even thinking about the Ed Show or what any of his callers might have to say. My TV has an ignore button as well.

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RE: Small business owner says consumption = job creation - 7/29/2011 8:26:40 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		There was a time in this country when the vexing decision for a business man was not what price to put on his work, but whether it was worthy of bearing his name.



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RE: Small business owner says consumption = job creation - 7/29/2011 8:29:01 AM   
LaTigresse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

oh for fuck's sake you are all so fucking blinded by your mindless partisan animosity that you can't even admit when somebody from the opposition says something your fucking ideology preaches. of course consumption creates jobs, and of course its the middle class that does the majority of the consuming. where the fuck do you think those rich fuckers get all that money you don't want to tax? i completely fail to see how you can disagree with that with a straight face.

no wonder i stay out of this idiot bin most of the time, i hear better quality debates between preschoolers discussing which brand of pull up is better.

sweet christ's holey feet! fucking doughnut holes, every last one of you.


Oh Hannah...........your posts just delight me. And I nearly always agree.


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RE: Small business owner says consumption = job creation - 7/29/2011 8:54:28 AM   
Marc2b


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quote:

But, marc, wouldn't you agree that a decrease in consumption will lead to backlogs of inventory and thus a shut down of manufacturing with LOSS of jobs?

Wouldn't it be reasonable then to suggest the converse is true? That increased consumption would lead to increased demand and opening of new manufacturing lines and thus creation of new jobs.


A decrease in consumption will follow from a decrease in demand (I'm sick of pizza) but an increase in demand is not necessarily followed by an increase in consumption. That only occurs if there is an increase in production to meet the demand. You can’t consume something until it exists but you can not consume something that already exists (keep your pizza, I'm having chicken instead).

My point is that people are treating the words "consumption" and "demand" as if they were interchangeable. sometimes they can be, but sometimes they are not.

I think people misunderstand the difference between a business and a job and also don't always understand what causes them to come into existence. A business is created because somebody has percieved a demand to be filled (there are no pizza parlors around here, and people like pizzas). The jobs come into existence because sombody needs or wants something done and don't have the time and/or the knowledge and/or the inclination to do it theirself so they pay someone else to do it (I'm so busy making the pizzas, I don't have time to deliver them).

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RE: Small business owner says consumption = job creation - 7/29/2011 9:08:39 AM   
BitaTruble


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

Consumption does not create jobs. Consumption maintains currently existing jobs. Demand creates jobs.

A business starts or expands because of a demand for product or service (gee, I’d really like a pizza). If they succeed (hey, that’s good pizza), then the consumption of that product or service keeps the job going long enough (here’s your money for the pizza) to meet the next demand (I’d like another pizza).



That works right up until people can't afford to consume despite demand and in some areas (hearing aids for example) there is no demand.. there is need but price and vanity preclude consumption. So neither need nor demand are going to keep a business going. Consumption is the key and identifying actual consumers rather than simply those who have the need or demand is what is going to drive business forward. If you keep it deep and narrow that will probably increase your odds of success rather than trying to be all things to all people.

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RE: Small business owner says consumption = job creation - 7/29/2011 10:09:36 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

And that is exactly why we need to think on a global scale. Produce local, sell global. There are 7 some odd billion consumers on this planet. We should be sending out products to the people who want them and those are not *just* US citizens.

Of course, very good in theory but there is the same problem only worse when you include the world. He means that it is the middle class that drives demand, that spends most of their income creating that demand and are...going broke, or at least holding back. Their ranks have been more than devastated with the exportation not of our goods and services but of our jobs.

What is required for all demand is the financial ability to 'fulfill' that demand...i.e., some wealth to exchange. The more our economic and trade policies in fact reduce that ability and they have...demand falls.

Now houses are 'underwater' and the only 'wealth' remaining if any and that can no longer be tapped. (mortgaged) Can't send mom & dad back to work...there are no jobs and we cling to the ones we have now. A prescription for a 'lost decade' in the US...or more.

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RE: Small business owner says consumption = job creation - 7/29/2011 10:27:26 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

But, marc, wouldn't you agree that a decrease in consumption will lead to backlogs of inventory and thus a shut down of manufacturing with LOSS of jobs?

Wouldn't it be reasonable then to suggest the converse is true? That increased consumption would lead to increased demand and opening of new manufacturing lines and thus creation of new jobs.


A decrease in consumption will follow from a decrease in demand (I'm sick of pizza) but an increase in demand is not necessarily followed by an increase in consumption. That only occurs if there is an increase in production to meet the demand. You can’t consume something until it exists but you can not consume something that already exists (keep your pizza, I'm having chicken instead).

My point is that people are treating the words "consumption" and "demand" as if they were interchangeable. sometimes they can be, but sometimes they are not.

I think people misunderstand the difference between a business and a job and also don't always understand what causes them to come into existence. A business is created because somebody has percieved a demand to be filled (there are no pizza parlors around here, and people like pizzas). The jobs come into existence because sombody needs or wants something done and don't have the time and/or the knowledge and/or the inclination to do it theirself so they pay someone else to do it (I'm so busy making the pizzas, I don't have time to deliver them).

That's without getting into the fact that American consumerism/demand is currently creating jobs in China and India rather than in your own country, as well.

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RE: Small business owner says consumption = job creation - 7/29/2011 10:27:42 AM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
A prescription for a 'lost decade' in the US...or more.

just out of curiousity, how much time was lost after the Great Depression?

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RE: Small business owner says consumption = job creation - 7/29/2011 10:29:50 AM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
That's without getting into the fact that American consumerism/demand is currently creating jobs in China and India rather than in your own country, as well.

you mean some people are getting their pizza from China or India...

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Small business owner says consumption = job creation - 7/29/2011 10:43:39 AM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		I was thinking more of Apple and Walmart, to be honest. Sorry, I thought the pizza thing was just a simplified example...

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RE: Small business owner says consumption = job creation - 7/29/2011 10:59:52 AM   
Marini


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

And that is exactly why we need to think on a global scale. Produce local, sell global. There are 7 some odd billion consumers on this planet. We should be sending out products to the people who want them and those are not *just* US citizens.


Of course, very good in theory but there is the same problem only worse when you include the world. He means that it is the middle class that drives demand, that spends most of their income creating that demand and are...going broke, or at least holding back. Their ranks have been more than devastated with the exportation not of our goods and services but of our jobs.


THANK YOU! I was waiting for someone to say this, I needed a break!!

What is required for all demand is the financial ability to 'fulfill' that demand...i.e., some wealth to exchange. The more our economic and trade policies in fact reduce that ability and they have...demand falls.

Now houses are 'underwater' and the only 'wealth' remaining if any and that can no longer be tapped. (mortgaged) Can't send mom & dad back to work...there are no jobs and we cling to the ones we have now. A prescription for a 'lost decade' in the US...or more.

HEY BUDDY! Can you spare a job?


I think we are going to "lose" more than a decade, I don't expect to see things turned around to MY satisfaction, in my lifetime.
Peace

< Message edited by Marini -- 7/29/2011 11:04:01 AM >

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RE: Small business owner says consumption = job creation - 7/29/2011 11:13:31 AM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

I was thinking more of Apple and Walmart, to be honest. Sorry, I thought the pizza thing was just a simplified example...

Of course there are certain products that have always been imported and there always will be. But there are lots of jobs and businesses that cant be, pizza for one, and many other areas.

And too that is why housing is such a big job creator, while you can import and ship houses, its not usually done very much. Imo, that is a big factor in why the economy dropped so badly, the housing industry took a huge nosedive and put a lot of people out of work, but that had nothing to do at all with outsourcing, that was entirely a home grown disaster. When a new house is built, there have been studies done in the spin-off business and job creation, people need all sorts of stuff & services for their new home...

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RE: Small business owner says consumption = job creation - 7/29/2011 11:13:36 AM   
Hippiekinkster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Just because the 'unidentified employer' isn't creating jobs doesn't mean other employers are not. I call BS on the Ed Schultz caller.


This is a new theory of economics then? If you build it, they will buy? lol
Yeah, I suggested to some ratfucker here that he go and build some one-legged chairs and see how far he gets.


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RE: Small business owner says consumption = job creation - 7/29/2011 11:35:36 AM   
Marc2b


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quote:

That works right up until people can't afford to consume despite demand and in some areas (hearing aids for example) there is no demand.. there is need but price and vanity preclude consumption.


It depends on how you define “demand” in this context. I was thinking that “demand” equals a need or want plus the ability to pay for it if available. A lack of ability to pay for it is a lack of demand in this context. I would really like to have the complete set of Battlestar Glactica DVDs but I can afford it right now. Hence, there is a want (it’s hardly a need ) but no demand… and thus no consumption in this particular case. Fortunately for Universal there are plenty of people who both want to watch BSG and can pay for it so there is enough consumption to make it worth their while to produce BSG DVDs.

quote:

So neither need nor demand are going to keep a business going. Consumption is the key and identifying actual consumers rather than simply those who have the need or demand is what is going to drive business forward.


Which is exactly what I said. Demand creates the business/jobs in the first place; consumption keeps it going.

quote:

If you keep it deep and narrow that will probably increase your odds of success rather than trying to be all things to all people.


Actually, history has shown (in both evolution and in business) that it is the generalists rather than the specialists who have the best chances for long term survival. If I make only pizzas and people suddenly start loosing an interest in pizza, then I am in trouble. If I also make subs and chicken wings my chances of survival are much better.


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RE: Small business owner says consumption = job creation - 7/29/2011 11:38:00 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

and thats where we need to draw the line between small business and large corporations.

One produces and is an economic engine, the other is a nation sucking leech. 

large corps are worse that leeches, they tend to grow by buying other corps and in so doing they cut jobs in duplicate areas...


Which enables them to cut prices and grow shareholder value.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
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to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Small business owner says consumption = job creation - 7/29/2011 11:40:18 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		cut prices for cut rate goods, no question.  enhancing shareholder value...........after lobbying, 503, PAC and bonuses, it brings in a nickle a share.........



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RE: Small business owner says consumption = job creation - 7/29/2011 11:41:14 AM   
Marc2b


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quote:

That's without getting into the fact that American consumerism/demand is currently creating jobs in China and India rather than in your own country, as well.


Demand only creates the need for a job in the first place, where the job will be depends upon a host of other factors including the price of labor. We don't like to think of labor as being a commodity subject to market forces, but it is.

I'm curious... I hear a lot about how much America imports from China but does Europe import nothing from there? China exports a lot because they have cheaper prices due many to cheap labor.

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RE: Small business owner says consumption = job creation - 7/29/2011 11:41:48 AM   
windchymes


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

and thats where we need to draw the line between small business and large corporations.

One produces and is an economic engine, the other is a nation sucking leech. 

large corps are worse that leeches, they tend to grow by buying other corps and in so doing they cut jobs in duplicate areas...


Which enables them to cut prices and grow shareholder value.


it doesn't matter what the prices are if you don't have a job to have money to pay the prices with......let alone buy shares.

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RE: Small business owner says consumption = job creation - 7/29/2011 11:43:58 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		well, by and large small businesses are not where people buy the bulk of their shares. OTC markets aren't that big.  The insurance peddling medic is running pretty far afield there. 

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