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RE: Again, WTF is wrong with people? - 7/29/2011 7:39:06 PM

Termyn8or

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"What exactly was so terrible about Terms post? "

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RE: Again, WTF is wrong with people? - 7/29/2011 7:40:23 PM

gungadin09

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Where are all the people claiming that it's not fair to condemn them for one moment's bad judgement?

pam

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RE: Again, WTF is wrong with people? - 7/29/2011 7:43:38 PM

LadyPact

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Good luck with that one, pam. As far as I'm concerned, if someone's "moment of bad judgment" ends the life of a child, they don't get sympathy from Me.

< Message edited by LadyPact -- 7/29/2011 7:44:23 PM >

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RE: Again, WTF is wrong with people? - 7/29/2011 8:04:43 PM

Termyn8or

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"then what on earth are we doing indulging in moronic murder & revenge dressed up as "justice"? "

Many years ago in Cleveland, Ohio, a person raped a young Woman, in her teens. She was a virgin. Well not anymore. If I had the time I would stake the male out and shoot him right between the eyes. He was brutal, and fucked her up rel bad. An animal. In another rape case, the assailant did not want to kill the victim, so he stabbed her eyes out, blinding her so she could not identify him.

When I see a dangerous animal, it's time to eat,,,, it. I have no remorse, because I don't kill people. People don't fucking do that. If you want to live in a world in which animals masquerade as people, thus allowing them to prey upon your Mothers, daughters and other relativers, try Mars. Because my kind is not putting up with it here.

YOU pay the fucking thirty grand a year to keep these predators alive for probably longer than we shall live, but don't do it here.

When you want to exercise your higher morality, use your own fucking money, and do it in your own fucking area.

Kill them. One day you will possibly become a victim, and you know what helps the victim the most ? Watching the perp bleed to feath. If you don't have the stomach for it, stay over there, you won't like it here. Fuck, we kill people in jail with a goddamn phone call. And they still keep coming.

So you just be happy and put your toast in the bowl of milk, and boil everything. It is so safe. Over here we use fire, and firepower. It doesn't get publicized all that much, but really, the US is the killing capital of the world. And most of us agree that there are a hell of alot of perople who need to be killed.

Life is not as expensive as you high falloutin heidi ho people think. People are worse than dogs half the time. Fukum. Whatever pretend shit you have in your mind is not my fucking problem. Come down here and start shit, meet Mr. .38. simple as that. When your neighborhood gets fucked up, when secdonds count the police are only minutes away.

Live it. You are. I will not.

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RE: Again, WTF is wrong with people? - 7/29/2011 8:30:15 PM

flcouple2009

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quote:

ORIGINAL: gungadin09

Where are all the people claiming that it's not fair to condemn them for one moment's bad judgement?

pam

Read the story closely, it wasn't the first time those sorry fucks used that box.

Locking a child in a box is not a mistake. It's a depraved act by useless pieces of shit who deserve terrible terrible things to happens to them.

And yes I am pretty sure of way you actually meant that . But on a subject like this I am just not able to respond that way.

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RE: Again, WTF is wrong with people? - 7/29/2011 8:48:49 PM

slaveluci

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Scenario 1: You open up the fridge and there's only one slice of cheesecake. You know it's for your significant other as you've already had your slice. But you want it soooo badly. You cave and eat it. THAT'S a moment of bad judgment.

Scenario 2: You and the whole family live in one house with 12 kids. Apparently, 11 of them are treated properly by you and rest of said family but Ame is systematically and repeatedly tortured, starved, forced to eat dog shit and routinely locked into a tiny box for whatever whim you think up. She dies. That is most definitely NOT a moment of bad judgement. That's a whole freakin' lifetime of bad judgement (though that term doesn't seem to fit either). Instead of a bad judgement, I'd say it's more of a horribly conscious choice to terrorize and eventually murder that child.

Bad judgement? Doesn't quite fit the bill imho..........luci

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RE: Again, WTF is wrong with people? - 7/29/2011 9:01:13 PM

Marisol

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Bad judgement was Ame deciding to take that popsicle with out asking. That's where normal parents say: "No, you have to ask first.", that's the end of it.

Killing a child for something like this is not bad judgement, it's not a poor discipline idea, it's murder. They knew what they were doing was wrong and did it anyway. I'm not a particuraly violent person but I'd take a gun and blow their brains out all over the place.

Sick fucks like them deserve to get fucked up. I'm sure they got jollies out of that poor girl suffering, I'd get a thrill from seeing them suffer for this, over and over again.

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RE: Again, WTF is wrong with people? - 7/29/2011 9:11:54 PM

Aswad

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Termyn8or,

There's a major difference between killing someone while you're catching them in the act, and killing someone you didn't catch in the act. The former leaves no room for error, in theory, although that's assuming you're sane and interpreting the situation correctly. The latter, however, has been conclusively demonstrated to be an error-prone process. More likely than not, killing people you didn't catch in the act will just make you yet another murderer.

You may remember me lauding Orion for making the right call in shooting a burglar.

That's a case of someone being caught in the act, and it's an effective way to end the threat.

You may want to pause for a minute and consider the possibility that I may actually have thought carefully about these things. That I am neither a soft sop, nor a blood-drunk norseman on a vikr. My views have evolved in response to facts. And I have researched this, reasoned about it, and factored in personal experience. Elsewhere, you suggested that I have insufficient comprehension of the criminal mind. I disagree, but won't risk incriminating myself to indulge you in the details. And the facts still end up being more weighty at the end of the day. You may not share my respect for life, but I would like to hope you share an interest in a functional society. And the evidence seems to strongly support that my views on this matter are consistent with a functional society, even before factoring in the question of whether governments should be allowed to kill their own citizens.

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al-Aswad.

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RE: Again, WTF is wrong with people? - 7/29/2011 11:39:20 PM

gungadin09

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quote:

ORIGINAL: flcouple2009
Read the story closely, it wasn't the first time those sorry fucks used that box.

Locking a child in a box is not a mistake. It's a depraved act by useless pieces of shit who deserve terrible terrible things to happens to them.

And yes I am pretty sure of way you actually meant that . But on a subject like this I am just not able to respond that way.

i know that. i was comparing the responses on this thread to the one about the mother who jaywalked with her kids and got one of them killed. (Many people responded with sympathy, saying, you shouldn't judge her so harshly based on one momentary lapse of judgement.) And i understand that these people were behaving MALICIOUSLY and that other mother never was. And i understand that they were habitual abusers and the other mother simple made one really bad choice. There is a difference.

However, in both cases a child died as the result of one really bad decision by the people who were supposed to know better. And i don't have a lot of sympathy in either case. And i would STILL not have sympathy if the family in this case were NOT habitual abusers, and had simply been really, really dumb this one time and thought that locking the girl up was an appropriate punishment, and just didn't realise that there wasn't enough air. The didn't intend for her to die. It was an accident. However, grownups are supposed to know better. Right?

i was being sarcastic. i think they deserve what they get for hurting a child, and all the more so in THIS case, because of the level of malice that was involved.

pam

< Message edited by gungadin09 -- 7/29/2011 11:52:06 PM >

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RE: Again, WTF is wrong with people? - 7/29/2011 11:42:10 PM

Termyn8or

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"Locking a child in a box is not a mistake. It's a depraved act by useless pieces of shit who deserve terrible terrible things to happens to them. "

Try that with an extremely hyperactive kid who plays with fire, and at ten steals your car keys, and kills your pets. Puts you in a trick bag because the motherfucker ran over someone. You pay, no matter how much, you pay. Try that fucking shit.

You are correct in your own experiance. but try kids who kick out all the basement windows and it rains in and the freezes and wrecks the foundation of the house. I have been there, I have seen it.

Sometimes you gotta smack the motherfuckers REALLY FUCKING HARD. I agree that it does no good, but you still hafta do it.

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RE: Again, WTF is wrong with people? - 7/30/2011 12:17:50 AM

WyldHrt

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Am I the only one who sees a bit of an issue between these 2 statements:

quote:

I wouldn't want to let them off that easily. Better they rot in jail for decades, then die.

quote:

I would think that growing slowly old, eating only food that meets minimum possible standards, and spending each and every day bored out of their minds, til they begin to want to die to escape, would be much, much worse than that.

And this one?

quote:

if we're supposed to be progressing as a species, then what on earth are we doing indulging in moronic murder & revenge dressed up as "justice"?

Well, I say "we", but of course I mean "those countries still retarded enough to use the death penalty".

Just asking.

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RE: Again, WTF is wrong with people? - 7/30/2011 12:27:16 AM

Termyn8or

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Sorry to shatter your illusions, but I didn't do it. Reality did it.

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RE: Again, WTF is wrong with people? - 7/30/2011 12:41:55 AM

WyldHrt

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Was that reply to me? My post wasn't directed at anything you said.

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RE: Again, WTF is wrong with people? - 7/30/2011 2:09:38 AM

RapierFugue

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Life is not as expensive as you high falloutin heidi ho people think. People are worse than dogs half the time. Fukum. Whatever pretend shit you have in your mind is not my fucking problem. Come down here and start shit, meet Mr. .38. simple as that. When your neighborhood gets fucked up, when secdonds count the police are only minutes away.

Yeah ... thing is, I can definitely see a point where you end up on the news, and not in a good way. It's like you're coming unglued in public, steadily declining on a mental level over several years. I've noticed a change in even the time I've seen your posts on here. And that’s not that prolonged a timescale.

Spool forward another few years without help, or a change in whatever help you're getting now, and the results are not likely to be encouraging.

Time to either seek help or, if you already have, accept it's not working and try something else.

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RE: Again, WTF is wrong with people? - 7/30/2011 2:38:54 AM

RapierFugue

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WyldHrt

Just asking.

And you're right to do so. What you're missing (because possibly I didn't explain it, just took it as read someone would join the dots but you’re right, that's not a given) is the difference between personal, emotional, feelings about a crime, and the objective justice the law should embody and dispense. I, on a personal level, feel revolted and angry, and so wish to see those responsible suffer. But that's the simple reason why the law doesn't allow me to dispense my own justice; I'm neither objective enough, nor qualified enough on my own, nor dispassionate enough, to do so fairly.

Thus, justice should be dispensed by the state, on behalf of society. Yet another reason why the death penalty is fundamentally wrong; if society says "murder is wrong" (because it is) then society can't then add "except for when we act en masse, through the state, to murder citizens through the rule of law".

Take a look at those countries who operate the death penalty; the USA and Japan are the only 1st world nations of note to do so*. Then look at the other countries on the death penalty list ... that's company one wouldn't want to be keeping. Let's see ... ooh look, there's Libya, Africa's top executioner ... that's a great social bedfellow to have eh? Then there's China, the world's number one fan of state-sponsored murder ... another enlightened country ... not.

I mean, really; it's 2011. Are there seriously people left in the world so filled with ignorance, bile and hatred that they consider the death penalty a sound option? I mean, remove for a moment that unfortunate habit the law has of locking up, and sometimes executing, the wrong person - just look at it in purely social terms; are we really saying it's an acceptable practice in this day and age, even as a concept? It’s what a former lecturer of mine used to call a “light bulb” option; if it didn’t already exist, and someone suggested it, they’d be laughed out of town, in the light bulb’s case because they’re such an extraordinary waste of resource and energy for such a short term gain (hence why the world is moving towards long-life, low energy, lighting solutions) and in the case of the death penalty because it has such glaring and easily understood shortcomings. The problem is, it’s been around for a long time, and the weight of history and convention is a heavy thing to throw off. Almost all nations have, though. Time for the USA and Japan to enter the 21st century.

*as part of a regular rule of law; there are other countries who technically can issue the death penalty, but in practice their law and legal frameworks make it all but impossible to do so, and they merely haven't, in a few cases removed the concept from their statutes, just made it nearly impossible in practice.

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RE: Again, WTF is wrong with people? - 7/30/2011 3:32:26 AM

WyldHrt

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quote:

And you're right to do so. What you're missing (because possibly I didn't explain it, just took it as read someone would join the dots but you’re right, that's not a given) is the difference between personal, emotional, feelings about a crime, and the objective justice the law should embody and dispense. I, on a personal level, feel revolted and angry, and so wish to see those responsible suffer. But that's the simple reason why the law doesn't allow me to dispense my own justice; I'm neither objective enough, nor qualified enough on my own, nor dispassionate enough, to do so fairly.

I didn't miss anything, RF, but I'm not buying it- here's why:

quote:

People think that being anti-death penalty is the soft option. It's actually the polar opposite.

Seems you are ok with the decades-long torture and deprivation that is the reality of keeping someone locked up until they die, as are many of the so-called *civilized* courts where the death penalty is not permitted but life in prison is.

I'm cool with that, but it really doesn't square too well with your attempt at characterizing those that favor the death penalty as savages or retards, does it?

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RE: Again, WTF is wrong with people? - 7/30/2011 3:35:45 AM

RapierFugue

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WyldHrt

Seems you are ok with the decades-long torture and deprivation that is the reality of keeping someone locked up until they die, as are many of the so-called *civilized* courts where the death penalty is not permitted but life in prison is.

I'm cool with that, but it really doesn't square too well with your attempt at characterizing those that favor the death penalty as savages or retards, does it?

Squares perfectly for me, but of course your views may vary.

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RE: Again, WTF is wrong with people? - 7/30/2011 3:54:35 AM

WyldHrt

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quote:

Squares perfectly for me

I'm sure it does.

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RE: Again, WTF is wrong with people? - 7/30/2011 6:43:50 AM

flcouple2009

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There's a difference between discipline and abuse and I know you understand that. Abusing a problem child is not the answer. It only creates worse behavior.

It starts with the adults. You just don't put the kids in a room and ignore them while you do your thing. They need to be taught and have examples set. It starts in the beginning when they are young.

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RE: Again, WTF is wrong with people? - 7/30/2011 6:53:38 AM

domiguy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue

I mean, really; it's 2011. Are there seriously people left in the world so filled with ignorance, bile and hatred that they consider the death penalty a sound option? I mean, remove for a moment that unfortunate habit the law has of locking up, and sometimes executing, the wrong person - just look at it in purely social terms; are we really saying it's an acceptable practice in this day and age, even as a concept? It’s what a former lecturer of mine used to call a “light bulb” option; if it didn’t already exist, and someone suggested it, they’d be laughed out of town, in the light bulb’s case because they’re such an extraordinary waste of resource and energy for such a short term gain (hence why the world is moving towards long-life, low energy, lighting solutions) and in the case of the death penalty because it has such glaring and easily understood shortcomings. The problem is, it’s been around for a long time, and the weight of history and convention is a heavy thing to throw off. Almost all nations have, though. Time for the USA and Japan to enter the 21st century.

*as part of a regular rule of law; there are other countries who technically can issue the death penalty, but in practice their law and legal frameworks make it all but impossible to do so, and they merely haven't, in a few cases removed the concept from their statutes, just made it nearly impossible in practice.