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walk the walk, talk the talk - 5/18/2006 7:16:40 PM   
kisshou


Posts: 2425
Joined: 2/11/2005
Status: offline 		An expression I learned on Collarme is 'if you are going to talk the talk then walk the walk' is this something you all believe?

Does someone have to have climbed a mountain to give advice on mountain climbing, or is reading about it, studying it and watching movies about it enough?

Does it make someone seem hypocritical if they say "I know about BDSM but I don't practice any part of that lifestyle"? and then tell people who do practice it things that they feel about it.

If someone said to you' oh well I am not a sadist but I know all about sadism would you respect what they had to say about it?


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RE: walk the walk, talk the talk - 5/18/2006 7:33:02 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I think it is possible to have a general idea about BDSM from reading about it.... I will tell you why I think this

I can read about other places and never have been to them and still have a general idea what goes on there. I could even lecture a class on the subject of Peru even though I have never been there. I can tell you about dolphins even though I have never swam with them. I can observe how monkeys mate even though I am not a monkey.

I am a cultural anthropologist, so if BDSM was a subject of study for me (which is isn't) i could interview people, observe their behavior within their groups, and I could even document the nomenclature they use to describe their lifestyle as a subculture. I, in essense, could be a BDSM expert, without being into BDSM. I might even experiment sexually to understand subspace or sadism, it still would not mean I was into BDSM as a mindset, but only seeking to understand it... see what I mean? It is possible to understand things that are not a part of who and what we are.

On Edit: this is only my opinion and other "experts" may disagree....lmao (I say that to make fun of myself btw)

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 5/18/2006 7:34:51 PM >

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RE: walk the walk, talk the talk - 5/18/2006 8:09:15 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kisshou

An expression I learned on Collarme is 'if you are going to talk the talk then walk the walk' is this something you all believe?

Does someone have to have climbed a mountain to give advice on mountain climbing, or is reading about it, studying it and watching movies about it enough?

Does it make someone seem hypocritical if they say "I know about BDSM but I don't practice any part of that lifestyle"? and then tell people who do practice it things that they feel about it.

If someone said to you' oh well I am not a sadist but I know all about sadism would you respect what they had to say about it?





OK, I've been flamed before, so what the hell. lol

In all honesty, no, I probably wouldn't for the simple fact that I 'am' a sadist (and a masochist, endorphin junkie, adrenaline addict and part-time hedonist.. lol) I 'do' live a 24/7 M/s lifestyle so I trust my own, personal experiences with it much more than I would the opinions of someone who has never practiced it. You can read till you are blue in the face, but if you have never felt the sting of a bullwhip on your back, I don't think you can speak intelligently on how that feels, why you should or should not practice the art etc. At best, you may be able to give a few safety tips.. like, don't hit someone in the eye with a bullwhip! ::laughs:: You may know that you shouldn't strike at someones eye balls, but if you have never had that whip in your hand, you are not a person to whom I would accept any sort of advice on the subject. 

As for relationship advice, that's a whole different ball of wax because you just need life experience for that, and a lot of common sense. Sometimes it's easier for strangers to see what's going on than for those actually involved. That said, if there are people who can't make their own relationships work or who don't have any long term relationships under their belt, I would probably take their advice with a grain of salt. After all, the way they think and approach isn't working for them, so why would I expect it would work for me?

I trust my personal experience more than anything. If there comes a time when I need advice on something which I haven't any experience, I'll go to someone who I 'know' is an expert on the subject. If I need relationship advice, I'll ask some old married people who have relationships that not only work, but who are still crazy about their partners and having some fun to boot.

Celeste

< Message edited by BitaTruble -- 5/18/2006 8:11:04 PM >

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RE: walk the walk, talk the talk - 5/18/2006 10:10:29 PM   
NakedOnMyChain


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From: Indiana
Status: offline 		You can trust the opinion of someone well-educated on a given subject that hasn't neccesarily practiced what they've studied, to a certain extent.  It's always wise to listen and glean for yourself what is worthwhile.  I would, however, try to balance it with advice from those who have actually experienced what they're talking about.

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RE: walk the walk, talk the talk - 5/18/2006 10:24:40 PM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline 		Experience is always better than theory from my experience.

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RE: walk the walk, talk the talk - 5/18/2006 10:39:11 PM   
MsMacComb


Posts: 808
Joined: 3/30/2005
From: My Mothers womb.
Status: offline 		Its one thing to read about a caning. Its something else altogether when that cane is used on your bottom.

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RE: walk the walk, talk the talk - 5/18/2006 11:04:36 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		There is a big debate in cultural anthropology about whether an insider perspective or an outsider perspective is more valuable when studying a culture or subculture. It is called etic and emic approaches. Some think that an insider's view is the most important part of the study of culture, others think that an outsider could spot things that an insider might miss, a fresh perspective if you will. I personally think both insider and outsider views are important when looking at a culture or subculture, they serve different purposes in discovering new information.

I took your question to be on a broad spectrum, and not on a narrow view of BDSM. Of course there are things only an insider can know, but the broad aspects of BDSM can be understood and studied by outsiders... And yes I considered studying BDSM as a subculture and changed my mind for two reasons 1) Im an insider because I am a submissive 2) I would have to get informed consent from anyone I obtained information from which would require I have my anthropologist hat on everytime I interacted with the community, and I did not want to go there...

Here is a link about those perspectives I was talking about earlier in this post
http://faculty.ircc.edu/faculty/jlett/Article%20on%20Emics%20and%20Etics.htm

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RE: walk the walk, talk the talk - 5/18/2006 11:07:19 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		I prefer people who have both background theory and
experience.  But when push comes to shove, real life experience wins out.
 
Vendaval

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali
Experience is always better than theory from my experience.


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RE: walk the walk, talk the talk - 5/19/2006 1:49:05 AM   
mistoferin


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Joined: 10/27/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kisshou
'if you are going to talk the talk then walk the walk' is this something you all believe?


Yup, I use this saying quite frequently and yes I do pretty firmly believe in it...not just in the lifestyle but also in many other aspects of life. You can preach from the highest mountain but until you can show me that you can back up your words....I give them little credibility. Actions speak much louder than words.

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RE: walk the walk, talk the talk - 5/19/2006 2:10:27 AM   
LaMalinche


Posts: 2077
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Status: offline 		All those historians are sooooo screwed. . .  they have studied history, yet I am nearly certain that they have never fed xtians to a lion. . . but I could be wrong. . .

Best,

LaMalinche


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RE: walk the walk, talk the talk - 5/19/2006 2:14:45 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaMalinche
All those historians are sooooo screwed. . .  they have studied history, yet I am nearly certain that they have never fed xtians to a lion. . . but I could be wrong. . .

Best,

LaMalinche


Well, the OP was specifically referring to this in the BDSM context....and I, in my response stated that I feel it's important in "MANY" aspects of life....you will note that I did not use the word "ALL".

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

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RE: walk the walk, talk the talk - 5/19/2006 4:21:32 AM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline 		Book learning is a very fine thing, however it doesn't replace the depth of knowledge you get from having actualy done something.

Case in point:
Back in my time at the hospital, we had a newly qualified who on her first morning on the ward reeled off all the qualifications she had, asserted she was in charge and things would be done HER way. Myself and the other member of staff simply chuckled into our coffee.

Downstairs was residents that needed lifting and carrying, upstairs where all ambulory and, at face value, easier to deal with. She announced she would handle upstairs whilst the two of us did downstairs.

She was asked if she was sure to which she again responded that she had been through X years of training and of course she was sure.... It was pointed out that if she checked the rota there was a male on every shift.... but because all her learning was theory, she still didn't realise what mistake she was about to make.

OK she also didn't realise that I went into the stairwell so I'd be only a second away if she couldn't run fast enough, but when I heard her reach the sluice room and lock the door I went back down stairs and carried on dealing with the residents down there.

Once they where done and I'd grabbed another coffee, I went up and let her out of the sluice room. For some reason she was now more ready to listen to WHY there was a male on every shift. Upstairs was where the challenging behaviour cases where and they don't give a monkeys about feminism, they simply reacted badly to female staff, hence why there was a male rotaed on every shift. Something that hadn't been in her books, wasn't covered by her paper qualifications and a mistake she didn't EVER make again.

She also learned that no matter what her theoretical knowledge was it could never replace what people had learned from real experience and was much more open to asking for advice from people who had "Been there, done that"


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RE: walk the walk, talk the talk - 5/19/2006 4:40:24 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		Talking the talk rather than walking the walk is not really anything to do with theory over practice in my mind. It is someone talking as if they have practical experience when they have none and probably too damn scared to put into practice what they preach. Somewhat different to a theorist who has no opportunity to put their theories into practice.

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RE: walk the walk, talk the talk - 5/19/2006 4:44:23 AM   
smilezz


Posts: 2156
Joined: 6/18/2004
Status: offline 		Personally speaking.........it needs to be experience.  There are people out there that can "talk" with the best of  them.  I even know a few of them.  When it comes down to play?  you better damn well know how to throw that single tail.

~smilezz~

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RE: walk the walk, talk the talk - 5/19/2006 4:57:02 AM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline 		experience and education are not mutually exclusive......and to suggest that one is intrinsically of more value than the other is meaningless.......it is, of course, possible to come up with examples of situations where experience wins over education, but it is equally possible to construct counter examples..........best of all i'd say is the well informed practitioner :)

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RE: walk the walk, talk the talk - 5/19/2006 4:58:03 AM   
keme


Posts: 163
Joined: 4/26/2006
Status: offline 		everyone can have an opinion about anything they read, see, hear about, or even feel... but it is their opinion whether they only read about it OR have felt it... each person is wired differently. hehehe and we all know what opinions are like.
I personally see talk the talk and walk the walk as more of... if you say you have honor then behave like you have honor oh and go a step further... HAVE honor...lol...if you say you have done something with someone then you best have done it with that someone...be truthful... be honest... if all you want is a piece of ass then don't say I am a serious master in search of a monogomous long term relationship... if you are a submissive who wants to be gang banged don't say 'I am only interested in surrendering to one man' hehehe especially if you are on your sixth velcro collar...lol
oops I did it again... I said what many were thinking... *slaps the typist*

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RE: walk the walk, talk the talk - 5/19/2006 5:12:41 AM   
smilezz


Posts: 2156
Joined: 6/18/2004
Status: offline 		I see your point.  Your words came across much better than mine. 

Happy Friday...

~smilezz~

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�*:-.,_,.-:* � �*:-.,_,.-:* � �*:-.,_,.-:* � �*:-.,_,-:* �

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RE: walk the walk, talk the talk - 5/19/2006 8:55:02 AM   
SirKenin


Posts: 2994
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

I prefer people who have both background theory and
experience.  But when push comes to shove, real life experience wins out.
 
Vendaval

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali
Experience is always better than theory from my experience.



This is what I was going to say.  I will add that both have their practical applications.

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RE: walk the walk, talk the talk - 5/19/2006 12:00:42 PM   
badpaliden


Posts: 96
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline 		   Hmmm so if I  am understanding  those of you  who perport the ability to become an expert from out side observations and diligent study of the subject ...That  if I study real well and learn all there is about being pregnant and biving birth .. even tho I'm male , then I have a right to tell a mother how it's done? And whats wrong with the way she did it? 
  
  Naw, did'nt think so.. To me walk the walk ,talk the talk  is about; if your going to say your involved then you'd damn well better be involved!  Else how can you claim  any credibility .As for  the talking part.  If you havent been there, dont comment  on it.. Sort like how it is for the Nam vets .. unless you'd been one , you could'nt KNOW and sure as hell had no right to  sit in judgement of an experiance of some one who had !  I see a lot of opinions expressed here , and thats great! God knows enough people have gone on , to give you that right. But to expound on something  tangable involving actions and thoughs/emotions and dealing with the  results  from those actions.. I cant see , where ANY  one not activley doing something  can expound as an expert in any honest form. This is a lifestyle. That in my way of understanding means you are living  this and are doing this. Not being an observer on the side lines.
LOL, and this was just MY opinion. 

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RE: walk the walk, talk the talk - 5/19/2006 12:02:56 PM   
MistressWolfen


Posts: 578
Joined: 6/20/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: badpaliden

That  if I study real well and learn all there is about being pregnant and biving birth .. even tho I'm male , then I have a right to tell a mother how it's done? And whats wrong with the way she did it? 


OOO we have the male medical dieties doing that already badpaliden, you wiull have to pick another area *lol*

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