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The Natural submissive - 7/29/2011 11:58:39 AM   
Masterdx2001


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The Natural Submissive

I feel that courtesy is a strong indication of a good submissive as well as a good dominant. As a submissive, he or she asks his or her dominant for an immense amount of time, attention, and thought. Dominating someone requires a great deal of work and effort. While the submissive obviously has needs, he or she should devote himself or herself to pleasing his or her dominant as best they can. The submissive being honest and sincere about what types of play interests him or her. If the submissive is a masochist, with little or no interest in performing personal service for a dominant, he or she may tend to annoy or frustrate a dominant that has high expectations on being served. Also, there are those subs that are only interested in performing or providing a sexual service. While others tend to provide such services on a limited basis, such as domestic or office help, and then there totally devoted submissive’s who serve their dominant any way they can. One of the qualities of good submissive is to show honesty with respect to his or her needs and desires, to the extent that he or she currently knows and understands them, will serve the sub well here. While a dominant is not essentially under any obligation to request that the submissive do things that suit him or her. The sub should offer numerous ways to his or his dominant as reasonably possible. After all, the more way a submissive can make a dominant's life pleasant, the more useful he or she is as a sub. A good submissive should diplomatically be as clear as he or she can about his or her limits. I strongly believe that a frustrated and resentful submissive is no fun for any dominant.

Another characteristic that describes a good and true submissive is to not be pushy. A good sub won't approach a dominant and, uninvited; descend to his or her knees at his or her feet. I can tell you from my lifestyle experience that it is a truly a turn-off with many dominants, myself included. This can be viewed, in its own fashion, as a non-consensual act, given the fact consent and negotiations are the one of the cornerstones of SM and DS. I appreciate and can tolerate a certain amount of subtle, low-key flirting. I am definitely impressed by formal introductions from potential submissive’s, whether by email, in person, or introduced through a known third party. A good and true submissive won't approach another sub's dominant and come onto him or her by kneeling or acting submissive in a conspicuous manner without that dominant's prior and express approval. Doing so can create immense hostilities between the two submissive, which can spiral out of control. A good and true submissive should avoid being a smart-ass masochist. SAMs will misbehave on purpose to provoke their dominants into punishing them. This can be fun and erotically hot within the context of a pre-negotiated scene. I love for my sub to be what I call "sassy defiance." I absolutely love it when a submissive can make me rise to the challenge of making her hot ass heel. Being a SAM is frowned upon when it is engaged in a non-consensual fashion, or when the couple is outside the SM scene. A sub who acts in such a manner is essentially weak to ask for what they really desire in an honest manner. In my lifestyle experience, I have some smart-assed masochists provoke real anger in some dominants. This essentially denotes a deliberate emotional or physical hurting of the dominant to receive the desired response. Such behavior, in my opinion, would not be indicative of a good submissive because it is manipulative, unethical, and it stinks of being non-consensual. Provoking a dominant is not a good idea. As I mentioned with respect to good dominants, domination is likened to surgery, it is a highly refined skill in a highly that takes a long time to learn and master. Good Doms exercise their skill in a highly controlled, thoughtful manner. A good submissive would not deliberately disturb a dominant's emotional balance, as it would be quite dangerous. Even though many dominants exhibit immense amount self-control, we are still human; when we are injured, we hurt. Many subs will say that a raging, out-of-control dominant is definitely terrifying. A dominant friend of mine was purposely provoked by his sub to the point of losing control. He was quite shaken and sorrowful after SM scene was over. It took over two years before he could regain his confidence. I am not going to go into any detail here other than the fact he did erupt. A submissive should not engage seriously in being a smart-assed masochist, unless he or she knows the dominant can deal with that. As I mentioned earlier, being a SAM can be quite hot and erotic under the right circumstances. Under the wrong circumstances, it can be quite disastrous. As I have I said a good and true submissive also has to exercise self-control like a good dominant.

I strongly feel that a good submissive would not engage in the behavior of resistance, at least, until he or she got to know their dominant quite well. Resistance on a submissive's part, especially, if the dominant does not know him or her well can send mixed messages, which can be quite difficult to interpret. When I am in a dominant role in a SM scene with a novice submissive, I will tell my partner that any physical resistance on her part will essentially be successful. I will regard such behavior as a yellow light, or even an immediate termination of the scene. There are some subs that enjoy being forced, and this type of behavior being exhibited can essentially ruin a session, as well as, cost me an occasional play partner. To overcome physical resistance, even if it can be done quite easily, in the mistaken assumption that it is play resistance can definitely lead to disastrous results. I submit that physical resistance must be carefully pre-negotiated. I strongly suggest that any dominant, which is in doubt, back off immediately. Like being a smart-assed masochist, resistance can be erotically hot if engaged in under the right circumstances. Topping from below is another behavior that I feel that good subs should refrain. This denotes a submissive trying to control the scene in progress by making excessive requests, suggestions, and complaints. Of course, this is quite different from the sub that makes suggestions and requests to the dominant, yet leaving it for him or her to decide. It is also different from asking for particular activities, or ruling out particular activities during pre-scene negotiations. Topping from the bottom is typically frowned upon. A submissive should let the dominants make as many decisions as reasonably possible, as the submissive is there to please the dominant. I talked about dominant masochists and submissive sadists on DS and SM archetypes. A submissive sadist enjoys serving their partner by providing them exactly the kind of pain they desire, or as a dominant masochist which connotes those who enjoy receiving exactly, and only the kind of pain they desire. I will say that these personas work well as long as both partners agree in advance that this is the type of scene they want to do. There is an ethical use of the topping from the bottom behavior, which is when an experienced sub is respectfully offering suggestions to a novice dominant. I know that beginner dominants often feel quite insecure, being trained by their more experienced submissive. In my years as a dominant, I have seen few cases where the novice dominant went on to become excellent and outstanding. Also I have seen a few cases where the submissive was abusive to the novice Dom and he or she essentially never realizes his or her potential. I knew one or two to actually leave the SM or DS community entirely. As in the other behaviors I mentioned in the above paragraphs, topping from the bottom can also be erotic and hot under the proper circumstances. Many of you may or may not agree with what I am about say here. I strongly believe that a dominant that can relinquish control and reclaim it at the appropriate time essentially controls control, the essence of power, if you please. A good and true submissive will topping from the bottom in a constructive, circumspect, and respectful manner with regards to a novice dominant.

My vision of the ideal submissive is one who will be able to discern between strength and stubbornness, with a preference for the former. I love that woman who possesses the fiery, feisty nature that dwells deep within her bosom, sassy defiance, if you will. But I also desire a submissive that has strong sense of self-worth, a woman who is happy with herself and can honestly communicate what it is that she desires. My ideal sub will cherish the romance and be totally enthralled by a perilous, dramatic fantasy. She will be unified and complete, special and significant, and she will possess the immense courage to listen to the spirit beyond what she is.
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RE: The Natural submissive - 7/29/2011 12:00:07 PM   
JstAnotherSub


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yep

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RE: The Natural submissive - 7/29/2011 12:22:58 PM   
Madame4a


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natural
good
true
ideal


good luck with that.. its a lot to live up to... ideals are nice.. but wow... that's a lot

_____________________________

You're crazy bitch
But you f*ck so good, I'm on top of it
When I dream, I'm doing you all night
Scratches all down my back to keep me right on

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RE: The Natural submissive - 7/29/2011 12:29:07 PM   
coookie


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OMG you should totally hook up with this youtube sensation. You and her have the same sense of humour!!


http://www.youtube.com/user/ladymal651#p/u/23/0tz-xqddWVk

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RE: The Natural submissive - 7/29/2011 12:33:14 PM   
BonesFromAsh


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Don't you just love when people feel their journal entries are so important and MUST be shared with EVERYONE that they decide to post them on a discussion board for no other apparent reason.

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RE: The Natural submissive - 7/29/2011 12:40:29 PM   
DarkSteven


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Is this for a college class?

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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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RE: The Natural submissive - 7/29/2011 12:41:30 PM   
RapierFugue


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BonesFromAsh

Don't you just love when people feel their journal entries are so important and MUST be shared with EVERYONE that they decide to post them on a discussion board for no other apparent reason.


If people discuss it, does it matter?

And if they don't want to then they don't have to ... I may not agree with what he's said, but I wouldn't say there was any harm in a person posting it if they want to. Is there?

Otherwise all you end up with are Q&A threads and the daft "yes it is!"/"no it isn't!" P&R ignorance.

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RE: The Natural submissive - 7/29/2011 12:44:43 PM   
littlewonder


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yeah so many things in there that I disagree with that I wouldn't even know where to begin so I won't because well...I'm not real or true...just a figment of your imagination.



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RE: The Natural submissive - 7/29/2011 12:46:49 PM   
JWriter


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And, a good quality of a dominant is to know that there is a difference between "a submissive" as in a person who really has no choice in the matter* and "a submissive" as in the person who is choosing to submit.

Since this is under ask a Master, is there an actual question for a Master? If there is one, I missed it. My eyes went blurry and my mind drifted away, after the 122 paragraph, though, so that may be why.

And, yes, I realize I am not a Master, but, I am interested in the subject, in theory, and, I might be interested in what Masters had to say in answer to the question, if a question existed, and, if they could find it. I guess that's what slaves are for.

Slave, any slave who feels like being charitable: read this for me and see if you can find the question. Report to me, in my inbox, if you do. Thank you.

*No choice as in it is a natural part of them, and, they must submit or fall apart. Just like I am a writer, not by choice, but, because, I write. I don't stop. If you take away he papers and the pencils, computers, etc. I continue to make up shite in my head, and, if you conk me on it, I'll dream up a good story, instead.

Even traumatic events do not stop me. There is no choice. It is who I am. The same for dominance, which can be quelled, but, which cannot be removed, except, perhaps, by lobotomy. That's what I mean about some submissives. It is not a title, it is not a choice, it just is.

< Message edited by JWriter -- 7/29/2011 12:51:08 PM >

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RE: The Natural submissive - 7/29/2011 12:47:12 PM   
BonesFromAsh


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue


If people discuss it, does it matter?



I'll keep that in mind the next time I post something in my journal.

Maybe if he had tried to at least phrase it as a discussion topic, I might feel different. As it is, he posted his opinion. What'll we say...I agree/don't agree?

Natural submission/dominance would make for an interesting topic. What's your opinion?

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RE: The Natural submissive - 7/29/2011 12:50:13 PM   
RapierFugue


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BonesFromAsh

Natural submission/dominance would make for an interesting topic. What's your opinion?


Personally, I don't really give enough of a fuck to reply :)

But that's not the same as saying someone shouldn't make public statements if they want to.

It's not all about me*.

*I don't believe this, but it seems a good thing to say ;)

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RE: The Natural submissive - 7/29/2011 12:55:00 PM   
JWriter


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quote:

But that's not the same as saying someone shouldn't make public statements if they want to.


If they want to make a public statement, it should be in answer to a question, in their journal, on their profile, in their introduction, or, under a thread entitled "Public Statements". This is a thread for questions. It doesn't say "Public Statements for Masters" It says "Ask a Master."

I want to see the question.

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RE: The Natural submissive - 7/29/2011 12:56:45 PM   
RapierFugue


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JWriter

If they want to make a public statement, it should be in answer to a question, in their journal, on their profile, in their introduction, or, under a thread entitled "Public Statements". This is a thread for questions. It doesn't say "Public Statements for Masters" It says "Ask a Master."

I want to see the question.


You're absolutely right, I completely missed that. Fair point.

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RE: The Natural submissive - 7/29/2011 12:58:46 PM   
BonesFromAsh


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue


quote:

ORIGINAL: JWriter

If they want to make a public statement, it should be in answer to a question, in their journal, on their profile, in their introduction, or, under a thread entitled "Public Statements". This is a thread for questions. It doesn't say "Public Statements for Masters" It says "Ask a Master."

I want to see the question.


You're absolutely right, I completely missed that. Fair point.




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RE: The Natural submissive - 7/29/2011 1:01:28 PM   
RapierFugue


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BonesFromAsh




You'd rather I didn't admit I was wrong, and argued instead?

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RE: The Natural submissive - 7/29/2011 1:02:03 PM   
BitaTruble


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Thank you for keeping your essay in the personal realm by expressing that it was 'your' thoughts and feelings and not the way everyone does things or would have them done. I appreciate the difference because too often such essay's are meant to include everyone involved in BDSM or D/s and chaos ensues. Hopefully, that will be avoided by your wording.



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RE: The Natural submissive - 7/29/2011 1:12:27 PM   
BitaTruble


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue


quote:

ORIGINAL: BonesFromAsh




You'd rather I didn't admit I was wrong, and argued instead?


The section guidelines clearly give one the option of sharing their thoughts and experiences as well as just start discussions. Questions are not mandatory so, you were right the first time.

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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RE: The Natural submissive - 7/29/2011 1:14:26 PM   
RapierFugue


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

The section guidelines clearly give one the option of sharing their thoughts and experiences as well as just start discussions. Questions are not mandatory so, you were right the first time.


Oh FFS, really? Big floppy donkey dick!

I'm just not in an argumentative mood tonight ... could I tag you to carry on for me instead? :)

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RE: The Natural submissive - 7/29/2011 3:09:20 PM   
HeatherMcLeather


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Well, I'm going to actually comment on it, so there!!!

While the "real and true" is off-putting, and it is an awfully long post to read through, I read through it all. And most of it makes perfect sense, but an awful lot of it is pretty obvious, at least to me.

What I take away from it is mostly that there are no really "wrong" behaviours for a sub, but there are 'wrong" times for the behaviours. One would hope that this would fall into the pretty obvious category, but as we have seen often enough, that isn't always the case.

One salient point, that is implied, rather than overtly stated, is that while Dominants must learn their trade over time, carefully honing their skills, the OP seems to be of the impression that this isn't really so for submissives. even the title implies this: The Natural submissive <this phrase always makes me wonder just what an unnatural submissive is . >

I see it very differently, I think that submissives learn their craft just as surely as does the Dominant. I am a better slave than I was when I first started out, and I am improving all the time, at least I like to think I am.

So, in the interest of taking this longish essay and finding some questions in it to discuss, here goes:
1. Is it equally important for a submissive to learn and study the various aspects of D/s - S/M - WIITWD as it is for a Dominant? Or should they simply learn to obey and please their particular dominant?

2. As a Dominant, would an experienced submissive be considered a plus or minus in your eyes?

3. Would it matter to you, as a Dominant, if a submissive were more experienced?

4. As a submissive, would it matter to you if you were the more experienced?

There, now we have questions!!!! Queries, interrogatives, inquiries, even.

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RE: The Natural submissive - 7/29/2011 4:03:58 PM   
agirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

Well, I'm going to actually comment on it, so there!!!

While the "real and true" is off-putting, and it is an awfully long post to read through, I read through it all. And most of it makes perfect sense, but an awful lot of it is pretty obvious, at least to me.

What I take away from it is mostly that there are no really "wrong" behaviours for a sub, but there are 'wrong" times for the behaviours. One would hope that this would fall into the pretty obvious category, but as we have seen often enough, that isn't always the case.

One salient point, that is implied, rather than overtly stated, is that while Dominants must learn their trade over time, carefully honing their skills, the OP seems to be of the impression that this isn't really so for submissives. even the title implies this: The Natural submissive <this phrase always makes me wonder just what an unnatural submissive is . >

Probably someone like me :)

I see it very differently, I think that submissives learn their craft just as surely as does the Dominant. I am a better slave than I was when I first started out, and I am improving all the time, at least I like to think I am.

I have never thought for a moment that I was learning a craft. I came into this as I am and basically I've just learned what M is like.

So, in the interest of taking this longish essay and finding some questions in it to discuss, here goes:
1. Is it equally important for a submissive to learn and study the various aspects of D/s - S/M - WIITWD as it is for a Dominant? Or should they simply learn to obey and please their particular dominant?

It might be beneficial depending on who's in the relationship and if THEY think it's important. It's not been important to me. I'm not that interested in bdsm as a whole. M is, though. And I'm interested in M.
It's certainly been beneficial for my arse to obey but *pleasing* really will never be a strong point for me. It just seems so overplayed as some *submissive* element, when I'm used to being with someone that is far nicer than I am, far more thoughtful and runs this little herb garden the way he likes it all the same.

2. As a Dominant, would an experienced submissive be considered a plus or minus in your eyes?

N/A

3. Would it matter to you, as a Dominant, if a submissive were more experienced?

N/A

4. As a submissive, would it matter to you if you were the more experienced?

Not in bdsm terms, no. Bdsm has been the least of what has made my relationship with M. The way we function together isn't really based in the bdsm at all, it's based in us being us. He just IS the dominant of the two of us..with or without bdsm and the rest of it.

There, now we have questions!!!! Queries, interrogatives, inquiries, even.



agirl


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