RE: Why Women Are Better at Everything (Full Version)

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NuevaVida -> RE: Why Women Are Better at Everything (7/31/2011 1:04:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

It didn't say that women didn't take risks. It reported that the research showed that women didn't take as many, most likely because they calculate them more.




Ah but that's your assertion.  The article didn't say anything about women, actually.  It only spoke of men (as not knowing what they're doing, overconfident, having an appetite for risk, attitudes of infallibility, and testosterone levels). 

As for conclusions about women, however, there were none.  They're still trying to amass data in order to study them.

So to me, this article really doesn't tell us anything regarding comparing men and women.  If they haven't studied women, what's to compare? 



LadyAngelika -> RE: Why Women Are Better at Everything (7/31/2011 1:15:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

It didn't say that women didn't take risks. It reported that the research showed that women didn't take as many, most likely because they calculate them more.



Ah but that's your assertion. The article didn't say anything about women, actually. It only spoke of men (as not knowing what they're doing, overconfident, having an appetite for risk, attitudes of infallibility, and testosterone levels).

As for conclusions about women, however, there were none. They're still trying to amass data in order to study them.


You are absolutely right. The way I structured my statement lead to confusion. Let me restate that.

The article reported that the research showed that women didn't take as many, and my personal assumption is that one of the reasons is that they may calculate them more because they aren't acting with such a deeply neurologically programmed imperative to compete.

quote:

So to me, this article really doesn't tell us anything regarding comparing men and women.  If they haven't studied women, what's to compare? 


Absolutely, and it is unlikely that this will change until there are more women on the stockroom floor because the sample size isn't great enough.



NuevaVida -> RE: Why Women Are Better at Everything (7/31/2011 1:23:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

Absolutely, and it is unlikely that this will change until there are more women on the stockroom floor because the sample size isn't great enough.


Right, which makes me wonder how they can compare men to women if they haven't actually studied women yet. [;)]

However, this (quote from the article) was interesting:  "A 2005 study by Merrill Lynch found that 35% of women held an investment too long, compared with 47% of men."

So I'm still scratching my head trying to figure out how they concluded that women are better. 

1.  A 2005 study showed that women hung onto investments "too long" (not better)
2.  There's not a big enough sample size on wall street to compare wall street women to wall street men
3.  Vanguard's 2009 study showed men were more likely to sell stock at all time lows than women, thus leading to bigger losses.

Seems the entire article is built around #3 above. How that translates to "women are better at everything" is beyond me.  I'm not dissing your posts, LadyAngelika, but articles like these just seem such a stretch, totally biased, and inconclusive.  They make me more skeptical than confident, in looking at angles in comparison studies.



tj444 -> RE: Why Women Are Better at Everything (7/31/2011 1:23:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
It didn't say that women didn't take risks. It reported that the research showed that women didn't take as many, most likely because they calculate them more.

I think that is what i said, women look harder at where they put their hard earned $.

Any time you put your money anywhere, you take a risk. Anyone that kept their $ in Cds/t-bills took a risk and that was that the interest rate dropped to nearly nothing (especially after inflation). My mother (who was very conservative) learned that one. So eventually she had to switch to stocks, but there, she was conservative too.

I am much more of a risk taker than most women (or most men too actually). I would never advocate anyone take some of the risks that I have taken.



LadyAngelika -> RE: Why Women Are Better at Everything (7/31/2011 1:34:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

Absolutely, and it is unlikely that this will change until there are more women on the stockroom floor because the sample size isn't great enough.


Right, which makes me wonder how they can compare men to women if they haven't actually studied women yet. [;)]


But they have, to a degree and they do state their limitations. We wouldn't be able to advance research if we always waited for a level playing ground.

quote:

However, this (quote from the article) was interesting:  "A 2005 study by Merrill Lynch found that 35% of women held an investment too long, compared with 47% of men."

So I'm still scratching my head trying to figure out how they concluded that women are better. 

1.  A 2005 study showed that women hung onto investments "too long" (not better)
2.  There's not a big enough sample size on wall street to compare wall street women to wall street men
3.  Vanguard's 2009 study showed men were more likely to sell stock at all time lows than women, thus leading to bigger losses.

Seems the entire article is built around #3 above.


As for #1, less error is better. Jenny gets a C and Johnny gets a D. Neither is stellar, but Jenny's result is better.

quote:

How that translates to "women are better at everything" is beyond me.  I'm not dissing your posts, LadyAngelika, but articles like these just seem such a stretch, totally biased, and inconclusive.  They make me more skeptical than confident, in looking at angles in comparison studies.


Let's separate the article, which is a piece brought to us by a division of Time Magazine which wants to sell it's news service, from the research. You actually can totally claim that the article is biased and I'll concur. That said, there is no evidence in this article that the research is biased. We only see what is reported.




NuevaVida -> RE: Why Women Are Better at Everything (7/31/2011 1:45:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

Let's separate the article which is a piece brought to us by a division of Time Magazine which wants to sell it's news service from the research. You actually can totally claim that the article is biased and I'll concur. That said, there is no evidence in this article that the research is biased. We only see what is reported.



Absolutely.  But it's my own contention that articles like these do more of a disservice than anything, because of the bias in them.  They're kind of a hot spot with me (more like a warm spot) because they're putting conclusions out there which are opinion-based, and people eat them up as truth.  But hey that's just my own little pet peeve.  [:)]

I agree - the research is simply research and the bias is shown in what's reported.  Most of the general populous will take what's reported as truth, though, and run with it. In my opinion, saying "Women are Better at Everything" over men is as ludicrous as saying "Men are Better at Everything" over women.  It's the gazillion dollar question that's been debated since women began having a voice and I don't think either has ever been scientifically proven.  I think if it's ever proven, one way or the other, mayhem will ensue!



LadyAngelika -> RE: Why Women Are Better at Everything (7/31/2011 1:53:24 PM)

I agree with everything you've posted above. My objective was to provoke a little discussion, simply. It is also why I pointed out in my OP that the title was provocative, and I should have likely added sensationalist.

I do find it interesting however that we are studying issues on how women and men view success and power differently. As more and more women come into powerful positions, it definitely will be interesting to note what changes, if any, will occur. I most certainly have my eye on Christine Lagarde!




NuevaVida -> RE: Why Women Are Better at Everything (7/31/2011 2:34:02 PM)

Yep, and you provoked discussion, as we are discussing now! [:)]

Women have been increasingly stepping into positions of power for some time.  The overall changes this will bring about, I believe, will continue to be a slow evolution, but an evolution none-the-less.



DavidLee44UK -> RE: Why Women Are Better at Everything (7/31/2011 2:53:01 PM)

there are many examples great women Marie Curie

many Examples Great men Einstein

and all do not toot there own horn




DomImus -> RE: Why Women Are Better at Everything (7/31/2011 6:07:07 PM)

The author quotes the gentleman's article in the WSJ that refers to a book by Dan Abrams called Man Down: Proof Beyond a Reasonable Doubt That Women Are Better Cops, Drivers, Gamblers, Spies, World Leaders, Beer Tasters, Hedge Fund Managers, and Just About Everything Else. here:

"As Abrams notes, women are better soldiers because they complain about pain less. They're less likely to be hit by lightning because they're not stupid enough to stand outside in a storm. They remember words and faces better. They're better spies because they're better at getting people to talk candidly."

If the part that I made bold and underlined constitutes proof of this theory then I rest my case without calling a witness.



LadyAngelika -> RE: Why Women Are Better at Everything (7/31/2011 7:04:06 PM)

DomImus, I'm not sure I understand the point you are making. Would you care to elaborate?



PeonForHer -> RE: Why Women Are Better at Everything (7/31/2011 7:35:36 PM)

FR

Well, I think women have done very well indeed in recent years, and should be applauded for their efforts. On more than one occasion on this forum, I've seen a woman advance an argument that is coherent, balanced, and not at all bad-tempered!

Overall, I'm very impressed with women, and see no reason at all why they shouldn't be given jobs and allowed to buy things in shops occasionally.



PeonForHer -> RE: Why Women Are Better at Everything (7/31/2011 7:38:46 PM)

BTW - Could I add - only today, I saw a woman walk past a clothes-shop without going into it. And this was despite the fact that the shop was open at the time. Magnificent!



LadyAngelika -> RE: Why Women Are Better at Everything (7/31/2011 7:38:56 PM)

Smart ass ;-) So who scratched you up?



PeonForHer -> RE: Why Women Are Better at Everything (7/31/2011 7:41:51 PM)

Arpig did, with his amazing skill with Photoshop.

Nice to see you again, Lady A. ;-)



LadyAngelika -> RE: Why Women Are Better at Everything (7/31/2011 8:28:18 PM)

Kinky! Nice to see you too, even if you are a little shredded ;-)




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Why Women Are Better at Everything (7/31/2011 9:37:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika


quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

Oh and I should add that the total collapse of many of the world's financial markets are a testimony being in charge does not equate to guaranteed optimal performance.


Never said it did.

Must be a bummer to think you could do better, but will never get the chance :)


Finance isn't my professional forte, so I make no such claims. You clearly have missed the point of my post.


You dont have to be an expert in finance to know that there was no total collapse of any financial markets. Seems like one woman's reading abilities aren't quite up to snuff.



VaguelyCurious -> RE: Why Women Are Better at Everything (8/1/2011 12:10:52 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

I always find these "women are better at..." and "men are better at..." arguments to be kind of silly. 

Some people are better at some things than other people. 

Some women are better at some things than other women.

Some women are better at some things than other men.

Some men are better at some things than other women.

Some men are better at some things than other men.

And of course, I'm better at everything than all of you.  [8D]  (heh heh)



Sure. But that doesn't actually have anything to do with aggregate research. Imagine two bell curves that overlap significantly, with the standard deviation of each being significantly greater than the distance between the two means. In that situation there are going to be plenty of points on the lower curve that are higher than many of the points on the higher curve. All the statements you listed above will be true.

But there can still be a significant difference in the means that is worth discussing.

(Not that I think this research discusses it particularly well. But you're talking about smaller parts of that graph like they are more important than the whole picture, and they aren't.)



DavidLee44UK -> RE: Why Women Are Better at Everything (8/1/2011 11:21:21 AM)

Robert Kiyosaki

the Author of rich dad poor dad says money doesn't dissapear it just moves

the trick is finding where its moved

and to the we wouldn't have had a financial meltdown

why is it that ever since american civil war USA has been in debt

if women were surely that cock sure they should have put their foot down



NuevaVida -> RE: Why Women Are Better at Everything (8/1/2011 1:49:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

(Not that I think this research discusses it particularly well. But you're talking about smaller parts of that graph like they are more important than the whole picture, and they aren't.)


Not more important. Just stating these as general known facts.  Until evidence is proven otherwise, all we have are theories.  We can discuss those theories ad nausea, but they're still just theories.  The article linked in the OP is talking about conclusions derived from studies, but when you really read the article, you'll find there is no actual evidence of the title. It's misleading, and opinionated.



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