RE: Yielding To Censorship

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Hillwilliam -> RE: Yielding To Censorship (8/3/2011 10:02:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy This thread has more lies, misunderstandings and just plain old made up shit than any in recent memory. Hang in there, there's bound to be more.

Hillwilliam -> RE: Yielding To Censorship (8/3/2011 10:06:34 AM)
Regarding the OP and trying to get back on track. I'm NOT putting this idiotic book banning at the doorstep of the Tea Party. They do some wierd shit but I don't see a causal link there. Correlation, yes. Causality, no. My point is this. the book banning is being pushed for by far right wing conservatives. I thought that all the 'censorship' in the US was AGAINST conservatives, not BY conservatives. All their whining about censorship and now they are the censors. Quit being hypocrites.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Yielding To Censorship (8/3/2011 10:08:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam Regarding the OP and trying to get back on track. I'm NOT putting this idiotic book banning at the doorstep of the Tea Party. They do some wierd shit but I don't see a causal link there. Correlation, yes. Causality, no. My point is this. the book banning is being pushed for by far right wing conservatives. I thought that all the 'censorship' in the US was AGAINST conservatives, not BY conservatives. All their whining about censorship and now they are the censors. Quit being hypocrites. LOL. You dont see a TP causal link, but you do see a "far right wing conservative" causal link? Do you have any information on the politics of the school board? Billy Pilgrim was an optometrist...perhaps you need a visit if youre seeing things that arent there?

tazzygirl -> RE: Yielding To Censorship (8/3/2011 10:11:20 AM)
~FR Not in Missouri... http://lvtp.org/forum/Main-Discussion-Forum/1770-Nickel-and-Dimed-Removed-from-Curriculum.html#1770

Hillwilliam -> RE: Yielding To Censorship (8/3/2011 10:18:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam Regarding the OP and trying to get back on track. I'm NOT putting this idiotic book banning at the doorstep of the Tea Party. They do some wierd shit but I don't see a causal link there. Correlation, yes. Causality, no. My point is this. the book banning is being pushed for by far right wing conservatives. I thought that all the 'censorship' in the US was AGAINST conservatives, not BY conservatives. All their whining about censorship and now they are the censors. Quit being hypocrites. LOL. You dont see a TP causal link, but you do see a "far right wing conservative" causal link? Do you have any information on the politics of the school board? Billy Pilgrim was an optometrist...perhaps you need a visit if youre seeing things that arent there? When someone wants to ban books because they go against "Biblical Teachings" yes, wilbur, I see a far right conservative. I mean, seriously, would you call them a lefty, liberal, moderate or even moderate/conservative? Where's Firm? (I consider him a not so far Right conservative) let's ask him.

MileHighM -> RE: Yielding To Censorship (8/3/2011 10:30:52 AM)
Fightdirecto- Why is it everyone on the left assumes that any group on the right is a group of bible thumping haters? Yes there are a bunch of Jesus thumpers out there with their head burried deep in there own ass. But, you have to distinguish between those who are the faithful and those who are forceful. The tea-parties (many are independent organizations) were formed in response to the state of the fiscal health of the US. Some were hijacked or formed by Jesus thumpers. Inevitably, their forcefull Jesus thumping ways came out and they started talking social politics. However, this has nothing to do with the book banning!!!! If the tea-parties never existed, this would have happened anyways. The thumpers would have done it anyway, and found a different vehicle by which to spew their crap. You do illustrate one very important point for the right and the faithful. The faithful and the right need to get rid of the thumpers and publicly chastize them. Let's face it, its not like a thumper would ever vote for Obama or actually follow in the footsteps of Christ, so why cater to them at all. The same thing can be said about the left catering to the moonbat hippies and welfarites, why cater, like they will ever vote for the other side.

Lucylastic -> RE: Yielding To Censorship (8/3/2011 2:54:55 PM)
didnt palin have a bit of a problem with her library and neutering the minds of the people?

kat321 -> RE: Yielding To Censorship (8/3/2011 3:01:15 PM)
While a direct link between this situation and the Tea Party is tenuous, it is difficult to overlook that visible members of the Tea Party have been publicly associated with censorship in the past. One can make the argument that local Tea Party members in Missouri may be following the lead of Ms. Palin and Ms. Bachmann. As mayor Ms. Palin did approach the Wasilla librarian three separate times to find out if she would support her should she want to remove "objectionable" material from the library. http://www.adn.com/2008/09/04/515512/palin-pressured-wasilla-librarian.html Ms. Bachmann's charter schools was noted for supporting a teacher in banning the movie "Alladin" from the classroom- not because showing it was a waste of time- but because the movie reference 'magic' and was not in-line with the school's and teacher's religious views. Please note here that charter schools are public schools and must abide by Supreme Court rulings pertaining to the promotion of religious views in the classroom. http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2011/05/michele-bachmanns-school-banned-aladdin/37486/ So there is some association between visible Tea Party members and censorship. I will leave it to individuals to decide for themselves how strong these links are. I posted the following link in another thread. If anyone is really interested in who is challenging which books by year and under what circumstances, the American Library association keeps statistics. It is an interesting read, and you can easily find out the members of society who are most likely to challenge books and on what grounds. http://www.ala.org/ala/issuesadvocacy/banned/frequentlychallenged/21stcenturychallenged/index.cfm

Kirata -> RE: Yielding To Censorship (8/3/2011 5:20:12 PM)
Thanks for the links. Here's another one of possible interest. It presents a nice graphic breakdown of the challenges by reason and initiator, and also by number per year, which holds the surprise that 2010 saw the fewest challenges since 1990 despite the rising visibility of the Religious Right. http://www.ala.org/ala/issuesadvocacy/banned/frequentlychallenged/challengesbytype/index.cfm K.

Kirata -> RE: Yielding To Censorship (8/3/2011 5:38:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam When someone wants to ban books because they go against "Biblical Teachings" yes, wilbur, I see a far right conservative. Christian Dominionists have worked assiduously to promote a public perception of "conservatives" as people committed to Biblical values. It's been a slick piece of work, and the advantage it offers to those who enjoy finding causes to bash the Right has furthered its acceptance. But I remain of the view that we would all be better off to call a spade a spade, and a religious nut a religious nut, rather than fall for it. K.

DomImus -> RE: Yielding To Censorship (8/3/2011 5:57:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TreasureKY Again, please provide me a link showing where Sarah Palin or the Tea Party has claimed responsibility for the book banning in Republic, Missouri. Don't ask for facts or substantiation. It only confuses them.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Yielding To Censorship (8/3/2011 6:16:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam Regarding the OP and trying to get back on track. I'm NOT putting this idiotic book banning at the doorstep of the Tea Party. They do some wierd shit but I don't see a causal link there. Correlation, yes. Causality, no. My point is this. the book banning is being pushed for by far right wing conservatives. I thought that all the 'censorship' in the US was AGAINST conservatives, not BY conservatives. All their whining about censorship and now they are the censors. Quit being hypocrites. LOL. You dont see a TP causal link, but you do see a "far right wing conservative" causal link? Do you have any information on the politics of the school board? Billy Pilgrim was an optometrist...perhaps you need a visit if youre seeing things that arent there? When someone wants to ban books because they go against "Biblical Teachings" yes, wilbur, I see a far right conservative. I mean, seriously, would you call them a lefty, liberal, moderate or even moderate/conservative? Where's Firm? (I consider him a not so far Right conservative) let's ask him. I wouldnt call them anything without knowing who they are and what their overall politics is.

Fightdirecto -> RE: Yielding To Censorship (8/5/2011 8:12:30 PM)
Update: quote: Up to 150 students at a Missouri high school that ordered "Slaughterhouse-Five" pulled from its shelves can get a free copy of the novel, courtesy of the Kurt Vonnegut Memorial Library, library officials said on Thursday. The offer for students at Republic High School comes on the heels of the Republic School Board's decision to remove Vonnegut's novel and Sarah Ockler's "Twenty Boy Summer" from the curriculum and the school library shelves. "All of these students will be eligible to vote and some may be protecting our country through military service in the next year or two," Julia Whitehead, the executive director of the Vonnegut library in Indianapolis, said in a statement. "It is shocking and unfortunate that those young adults and citizens would not be considered mature enough to handle the important topics raised by Kurt Vonnegut, a decorated war veteran. Everyone can learn something from his book." "Slaughterhouse-Five," considered Vonnegut's most influential and popular work, is a satirical novel centered around the bombing of the German city of Dresden during World War II. The Republic School District took the move at its April 18 meeting following a complaint lodged by local resident Wesley Scroggins in the spring of 2010. In his complaint, the Missouri State University associate business professor called on district officials to stop using textbooks and other materials "that create false conceptions of American history and government or that teach principles contrary to Biblical morality and truth." Neither Scroggins nor Republic School Superintendent Vern Minor were immediately available for comment.

thishereboi -> RE: Yielding To Censorship (8/6/2011 7:23:05 AM)
I absolutely hate when people try to ban books for stupid shit like this. If they don't want their kids to read something, then don't let them read it. But to expect the whole school system to pick its library books based on your values is just crazy. Not sure why you had to mention the tea party. The article didn't but I know some people just can't stand to make a post without taking a shot at the other side, so maybe that explains it.

thishereboi -> RE: Yielding To Censorship (8/6/2011 7:25:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 Five words. Sarah Palin,tea-party leader. Anything else I can help you with? Now go get me a beer. \ Translation....no I can't but I won't admit I am wrong.

thishereboi -> RE: Yielding To Censorship (8/6/2011 7:27:46 AM)
quote: I guess now you`ll say she didn`t try to ban books? Of course she did. In fact if you believe the idiots on the left, she tried to ban some that were not even written yet.

Arpig -> RE: Yielding To Censorship (8/6/2011 7:40:11 AM)
quote: I'm a Canadian and I seem to know more about the American Founding Fathers than the Tea Party who claim to want to emulate/venerate them. That isn't all that uncommon a thing. I don't think any of them would be even slightly amused at what the people who claim to venerate their ideas would twist them into.

Arpig -> RE: Yielding To Censorship (8/6/2011 8:11:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata So now social conservatives = Christian conservatives? K. That's certainly what the Christian Conservatives would like to believe.[:D] The topic really has been derailed by the Tea Party comment in the OP, it's unfortunate that it was put in there because it detracts from what is important (suppressing ideas contrary to the majority's) and puts on what isn't important (just who or what is the Tea Party). I really don't give a damn about the politics or religion of a book banner, I will oppose the book banner on principle. The fact that somebody wants to prevent people from reading a book is a very good reason to read a book. Maybe it's my background, maybe I was raised differently from most people (my parents actively encouraged me to read "dangerous" books), but I feel that people, particularly young people, should be exposed to as many ideas as possible. You can't really know what you believe in, if you don't really understand it, and you can't understand what you believe in if you don't understand what you don't believe in.

Arpig -> RE: Yielding To Censorship (8/6/2011 8:14:31 AM)
quote: its a local issue. No, that's where you are wrong, it's not a local issue, it's a universal human issue, it matters when it is done anywhere. Republic MO, or Abudagh Iran. Wrong is wrong.

Aylee -> RE: Yielding To Censorship (8/6/2011 8:24:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi I absolutely hate when people try to ban books for stupid shit like this. If they don't want their kids to read something, then don't let them read it. But to expect the whole school system to pick its library books based on your values is just crazy. I can understand removing it from the curriculum. I do not understand the need to pull it from the library shelves. I am curious as to what they are going to replace it with. Catch-22 seems a good choice. I will note that because they used 'bible' in their reasoning that this will not stand up to the first challenge. If I recall correctly there is already a Supreme Court case on this issue. Religion cannot be a reason. The history issues that they cite is a valid reason, however. So if they toss out their second argument they can keep their ban. quote: Not sure why you had to mention the tea party. The article didn't but I know some people just can't stand to make a post without taking a shot at the other side, so maybe that explains it. In many ways it seems that the Tea Party is the new Bogeyman.

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