RE: Lactose Intolerance (Full Version)

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LadyAngelika -> RE: Lactose Intolerance (8/6/2011 5:55:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

Raw milk and cheese -- the only way I'll have it. Besides, 850 million europeans.

I get sick when I drink the homogenized milk in Canada and yet the moment I'm in Europe and I drink raw milk, it goes down fine! At least in Canada, we can have unpasteurized raw milk cheese, which is the only thing I'll eat.

The real crime is not giving people a choice!



Now expand that thought beyond your palate and stomach to more important things and you may come over to the dark side.


Why would you assume that I haven't? I'm pro-choice, remember? Perhaps you're the one that needs a little expanding :-)




LadyAngelika -> RE: Lactose Intolerance (8/6/2011 5:57:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tantriqu

Pasteurisation is there to prevent devastating diseases like tuberculosis, diphtheria and salmonella. Pasteur is a hero for good reason. The Darwin Awards are well-named.


Because there are 850 million europeans who eat raw, upasteurized milk products.... and there doesn't appear to be a huge epidemic there.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Lactose Intolerance (8/6/2011 6:35:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tantriqu

Pasteurisation is there to prevent devastating diseases like tuberculosis, diphtheria and salmonella. Pasteur is a hero for good reason. The Darwin Awards are well-named.


Because there are 850 million europeans who eat raw, upasteurized milk products.... and there doesn't appear to be a huge epidemic there.



They have different immune systems, obv. [:D]




Aylee -> RE: Lactose Intolerance (8/6/2011 7:45:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tantriqu

Pasteurisation is there to prevent devastating diseases like tuberculosis, diphtheria and salmonella. Pasteur is a hero for good reason. The Darwin Awards are well-named.


Because there are 850 million europeans who eat raw, upasteurized milk products.... and there doesn't appear to be a huge epidemic there.



They have different immune systems, obv. [:D]


Actually, there is some new research out about people having different sets of intestinal flora. So, perhaps that is what is stopping the epidemic.




DomKen -> RE: Lactose Intolerance (8/6/2011 7:51:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tantriqu

Pasteurisation is there to prevent devastating diseases like tuberculosis, diphtheria and salmonella. Pasteur is a hero for good reason. The Darwin Awards are well-named.


Because there are 850 million europeans who eat raw, upasteurized milk products.... and there doesn't appear to be a huge epidemic there.


Or perhaps the fact is most europeans do not drink raw milk. And in place like France where it is commonly consumed it is more closely monitored than any US dairy operation, monthly checks for safety and cleanliness IIRC.




DeviantlyD -> RE: Lactose Intolerance (8/6/2011 7:56:06 PM)

Getting back to the OP's original point, I can't help wonder of those who are appalled that the government would abuse their resources in this way (rather than the much more practical suggestion by the OP of having a worker help these farmers fill out the appropriate forms), how many have expressed their concerns of this and any related issues to their government representative?




Aylee -> RE: Lactose Intolerance (8/6/2011 8:01:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD

Getting back to the OP's original point, I can't help wonder of those who are appalled that the government would abuse their resources in this way (rather than the much more practical suggestion by the OP of having a worker help these farmers fill out the appropriate forms), how many have expressed their concerns of this and any related issues to their government representative?


http://thebovine.wordpress.com/2008/10/01/raw-milk-legal-in-kansas-and-missouri/

In Kansas, we can go to the farm/dairy and buy it if we would like to.




DeviantlyD -> RE: Lactose Intolerance (8/6/2011 8:04:36 PM)

But that doesn't answer my question.




LadyAngelika -> RE: Lactose Intolerance (8/6/2011 8:08:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tantriqu

Pasteurisation is there to prevent devastating diseases like tuberculosis, diphtheria and salmonella. Pasteur is a hero for good reason. The Darwin Awards are well-named.


Because there are 850 million europeans who eat raw, upasteurized milk products.... and there doesn't appear to be a huge epidemic there.



They have different immune systems, obv. [:D]


Actually, there is some new research out about people having different sets of intestinal flora. So, perhaps that is what is stopping the epidemic.


Epidemic? No. There is no epidemic because when things are done properly, like it's done in Europe, there is no chance for epidemic.

About 2 years ago, I started travelling regularly to Europe. I actually feel I digest the raw milk there were I can't digest the pasteurized milk in Canada.

And in Canada, especially Québec, we eat a lot of unpasteurized cheese. A lot (thousands upon thousands every year) of Americans visit here and eat our cheese. I haven't heard of any epidemic as of late.

The USA is paranoid when it comes to something as natural as raw foods, yet lets things like Olestra seep (pun intended) into the foods they allow to be sold.





LadyAngelika -> RE: Lactose Intolerance (8/6/2011 8:09:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tantriqu

Pasteurisation is there to prevent devastating diseases like tuberculosis, diphtheria and salmonella. Pasteur is a hero for good reason. The Darwin Awards are well-named.


Because there are 850 million europeans who eat raw, upasteurized milk products.... and there doesn't appear to be a huge epidemic there.


Or perhaps the fact is most europeans do not drink raw milk. And in place like France where it is commonly consumed it is more closely monitored than any US dairy operation, monthly checks for safety and cleanliness IIRC.


Exactly. So if you have high standards, you don't need to process the product and kill all of it's great qualities. I drink raw milk in France and it's delicious!





Owner59 -> RE: Lactose Intolerance (8/6/2011 8:09:34 PM)

It wasn`t meant to be answered.

Rants usually aren`t.




MileHighM -> RE: Lactose Intolerance (8/6/2011 8:11:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

Now Mr. Ken,

Why do you have such a hard on for this?

Perhaps its because the raw food people are spreading so much outright lies and misinformation?




Ok, I will say uncle on the Lactase arguement it is not central to anything. If you are concerned about the Raw foods movement, Read this: http://www.precisionnutrition.com/all-about-milk

People see shit like this and worry big time if conventional methods, dietary guidlines etc. aren't ruining our health and lives. I am not claiming that the raw foods movement doesn't have its flaws.... Technically, humankind has been cooking food for so long we have evolved to digest many food better cooked. Plus our immune systems aren't as tough as they once were (look at a dog, they can eat nearly anything including shit and they rarely get sick. we eat peanuts now and our immune system tries to kill us). With as bad as our food is treated, it is only natural for people to respond in such drastic ways.

We may avoid infection because of pasturization, but instead we will be dying of diabetes, cancer, lymphoma, osteoperosis, or just plain old obesity later on down the road. The Dairy council tells us to drink shit loads and we do. In return, they pump us full of artificial hormones, antibiotics, and low quality product. We should eat or drink so much damn dairy. It isn't that good for us anyways. Finally, if we only had the little amount we should, milk wouldn't be so mass produced, and we would actually be able to safely produce raw milk without such huge infection risks. Raw isn't a thumb at safety. It is a response to low grade food poisoned by unnatural methods, chemicals and products which are often produced in a unsustainable methods.





DeviantlyD -> RE: Lactose Intolerance (8/6/2011 8:18:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

It wasn`t meant to be answered.

Rants usually aren`t.


This is a rant?


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


http://thebovine.wordpress.com/2008/10/01/raw-milk-legal-in-kansas-and-missouri/

In Kansas, we can go to the farm/dairy and buy it if we would like to.





LadyAngelika -> RE: Lactose Intolerance (8/6/2011 8:21:11 PM)

quote:

We may avoid infection because of pasturization, but instead we will be dying of diabetes, cancer, lymphoma, osteoperosis, or just plain old obesity later on down the road. The Dairy counsil tells us to drink shit loads and we do. In return, they pump us full of artificial hormones, antibiotics, and low quality product. We should eat or drink so much damn dairy. It isn't that good for us anyways. Finally, if we only had the little amount we should, milk wouldn't be so mass produced, and we would actually be able to safely produce raw milk without such huge infection risks. Raw isn't a thumb at safety. It is a response to low grade food poisoned by unnatural methods, chemicals and products which are often produced in a unsustainable methods.


Bingo!

To my point earlier about substances such as Olestra which is still legal in the US (always was banned in Canada), which causes steatorrhea. So really, stop drinking the kool-aid (literally). Your FDA will approve what is in their best interest, not yours.





Aylee -> RE: Lactose Intolerance (8/6/2011 8:30:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD

But that doesn't answer my question.


My point was that contacting MY representatives would not do any good, since this took place in California and the three arrested and charged were in violation of a California State Law.

As far as decreasing the budget and powers of many Federal groups/agencies, yes I have contacted my representatives on that. And taken part in polls and so forth.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Lactose Intolerance (8/6/2011 10:27:33 PM)

Raw milk cheese is much better tasting, and is legal in the US if aged more than 60 days at above freezing temperature. High heat pasteurization is death for any real cheese, so if its to be eaten young, low heat pasteurization is needed.




DomKen -> RE: Lactose Intolerance (8/7/2011 5:51:00 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MileHighM

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

Now Mr. Ken,

Why do you have such a hard on for this?

Perhaps its because the raw food people are spreading so much outright lies and misinformation?




Ok, I will say uncle on the Lactase arguement it is not central to anything.

But it is central to the fact that the raw milk people in the US are telling lies to support their cause. That's because they do not have any facts on their side.

quote:

If you are concerned about the Raw foods movement, Read this: http://www.precisionnutrition.com/all-about-milk

People see shit like this and worry big time if conventional methods, dietary guidlines etc. aren't ruining our health and lives. I am not claiming that the raw foods movement doesn't have its flaws.... Technically, humankind has been cooking food for so long we have evolved to digest many food better cooked. Plus our immune systems aren't as tough as they once were (look at a dog, they can eat nearly anything including shit and they rarely get sick. we eat peanuts now and our immune system tries to kill us). With as bad as our food is treated, it is only natural for people to respond in such drastic ways.

More BS. The real facts are that westerners are the tallest, healthiest, longest lived culture ever. Much of that is because we are the best nutritioned culture ever. Anyone who claims otherwise is lying or misinformed and more than likely is trying to sell some fraud to gullible people.

quote:

We may avoid infection because of pasturization, but instead we will be dying of diabetes, cancer, lymphoma, osteoperosis, or just plain old obesity later on down the road. The Dairy council tells us to drink shit loads and we do. In return, they pump us full of artificial hormones, antibiotics, and low quality product. We should eat or drink so much damn dairy. It isn't that good for us anyways. Finally, if we only had the little amount we should, milk wouldn't be so mass produced, and we would actually be able to safely produce raw milk without such huge infection risks. Raw isn't a thumb at safety. It is a response to low grade food poisoned by unnatural methods, chemicals and products which are often produced in a unsustainable methods.

Raw milk is only safely produced in very heavily monitored dairies. In one year, 2001, 300+ people in the US got sick from raw milk they sought out because they believed the bullshit spread by raw food nuts.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1370/is_5_38/ai_n6198587/

Reducing the amount of dairy produced would likely make the milk supply more dangerous because there would be less public concern for the safety of the milk supply.

As to diabetes (type II I assume you eant) cancer and osteoperosis, these are diseases of long life. They were uncommon in earlier generations because people simply didn't live long enough for them to occur. Anyone who pushes the modern diet as bad based on diseases earlier generations did not live long enough to have is yet again a fraudster looking to make a buck on the gullible.




nephandi -> RE: Lactose Intolerance (8/7/2011 11:52:53 AM)

Greetings

quote:

As to diabetes (type II I assume you eant) cancer and osteoperosis, these are diseases of long life. They were uncommon in earlier generations because people simply didn't live long enough for them to occur. Anyone who pushes the modern diet as bad based on diseases earlier generations did not live long enough to have is yet again a fraudster looking to make a buck on the gullible.


First off all I know several of people in their teens and early 20 who have type 2 diabetes, and no most of them are not overweight, this is a illness which is also quite common among the young. Secondly people did not live that short lives 50 years ago or 100 years ago, yes more pepole today reach 90 or 100 and beyond, however people did not live to get only a few decades earlier either, there was quite a large population over 60 even if we go quite a ways back, and as for cancer, that is not a old age illness, it can strike at any age.

Now off course there are raw food nuts who think everything cooked is evil, but you can go to far the other way to, and chemically or heat treat everything, a balanced middle ground should be the goal I think, not to stick to one of the two extremes, there is allot of people who enjoy raw food who are not a crusade against all sort of heat treatment of food.

I wish you well




DomKen -> RE: Lactose Intolerance (8/7/2011 12:09:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: nephandi

Greetings

quote:

As to diabetes (type II I assume you eant) cancer and osteoperosis, these are diseases of long life. They were uncommon in earlier generations because people simply didn't live long enough for them to occur. Anyone who pushes the modern diet as bad based on diseases earlier generations did not live long enough to have is yet again a fraudster looking to make a buck on the gullible.


First off all I know several of people in their teens and early 20 who have type 2 diabetes, and no most of them are not overweight, this is a illness which is also quite common among the young. Secondly people did not live that short lives 50 years ago or 100 years ago, yes more pepole today reach 90 or 100 and beyond, however people did not live to get only a few decades earlier either, there was quite a large population over 60 even if we go quite a ways back, and as for cancer, that is not a old age illness, it can strike at any age.

Now off course there are raw food nuts who think everything cooked is evil, but you can go to far the other way to, and chemically or heat treat everything, a balanced middle ground should be the goal I think, not to stick to one of the two extremes, there is allot of people who enjoy raw food who are not a crusade against all sort of heat treatment of food.

I wish you well


Are you sure they have type 2? type 2 is quite rare in people under 40. Basically type 1 is an auto immune disease where the immune cells destroy the insulin producing cells in the pancreas. Type 2 is more like the pancreas just wears out from use.

Cancer is a disease primarily of age. It is caused by genetic damage to cells which occurs over time. Since the specific mutations needed to cause cancer are quite rare it is obviously more likely to occur in older people.

I enjoy raw foods, I eat raw vegatables almost every day and quite enjoy sushi and beef tartar. I do not however encourage anyone to exclusively eat raw foods, the raw food movement is almost as nonsensical as PETA. Raw milk is simply a bad idea as long as dairies are not more closely monitored than they are now.




TheHeretic -> RE: Lactose Intolerance (8/7/2011 1:26:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD

Getting back to the OP's original point, I can't help wonder of those who are appalled that the government would abuse their resources in this way (rather than the much more practical suggestion by the OP of having a worker help these farmers fill out the appropriate forms), how many have expressed their concerns of this and any related issues to their government representative?



Sending the clerks around to hold people's hands while the forms get filled out isn't an idea that thrills my conservative nature, Devia.  It's the standard liberal model of, "the solution to a government program that doesn't work, is another government program."  Cite, fine, repeat, then get a judge to either order the place closed until they get into compliance, or throw the law out as being stupid.

I don't need to raise the issue with my Congressman.  He started his career as a small business owner, and excessive/ridiculous regulation was the plank he stood on when he first entered politics.  I'm much more likely to email his Washington office, or call his local one, to express disagreement with something.

It does seem to me that any agency with the manpower and resources to conduct a sting operation over milk would be a fine place to trimming the fat out of budgets.




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