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Mental vs physical - 8/6/2011 9:00:39 PM   
fallon0627


Posts: 42
Joined: 1/22/2011
Status: offline 		I wanted to get others take on if a sub should be able to safeword on both physical play, mental/humiliation play or both. Please let me know what you think.
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RE: Mental vs physical - 8/6/2011 9:08:57 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		you can safeword on whatever you and your partner agree to.

There is no one way.

Why do i feel like i say that on here at least 3 times a week?



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RE: Mental vs physical - 8/6/2011 9:09:37 PM   
HeatherMcLeather


Posts: 2559
Joined: 5/21/2011
From: The dog house
Status: offline 		If you use a safeword, I think it should be available no matter what sort of play you're doing.

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RE: Mental vs physical - 8/6/2011 9:21:40 PM   
fallon0627


Posts: 42
Joined: 1/22/2011
Status: offline 		Thank you for your replies. I am fairly new and use safewords with impact play. When it came up about wanting to safeword on a particular mental/humiliation play; he is of the mind set that no there is no safe word with humiliation. I guess I wanted feed back on what others think on this or if someone has experience in this area. Fairly soon I will have to decide if his way of thinking is a path I want to take. Any feed back would be helpful.

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RE: Mental vs physical - 8/6/2011 9:35:19 PM   
BKSir


Posts: 4037
Joined: 4/8/2008
From: Salt Lake City, UT
Status: offline 		I am in favour of using a safeword for any reason at all, but, that's just me. I think in your case, you might look at using one to begin with, and seeing if you even need it for the mental aspect. And if he doesn't agree or abide by it, then it's most likely not the relationship for you. :)

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RE: Mental vs physical - 8/6/2011 9:47:51 PM   
Rochsub2009


Posts: 2536
Status: offline 		I agree with those who say that a safe word should be usable in any situation.  Impact play is an obvious situation where a safe word is necessary.  But one might be necessary in other situations as well.  For example, a humiliation situation that you've created may approach (or go beyond) one of your sub/slave's hard or soft limits.  If so, they need to be able to make you aware of their discomfort with the scenario that you've created.

One of my hard limits is male-on-male sex.  So if a Domme wanted to humiliate me by forcing me to suck some guy's dick, then I would see using the safe word as a respectful way of expressing my discomfort.  The alternative of simply saying "Hell no!!!!" doesn't seem very submissive to me. 

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RE: Mental vs physical - 8/6/2011 9:56:14 PM   
fallon0627


Posts: 42
Joined: 1/22/2011
Status: offline 		Again thank you for your replies. Hearing others views can help me look at all aspects and see things clearly.

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RE: Mental vs physical - 8/6/2011 10:02:47 PM   
winspiritsbaby


Posts: 141
Status: offline 		I agree, a safeword should be able to be used in any kind of play. I don't care how good a dominant thinks he/she is, there is no way that can be assured of what is going on in your mind unless you voice it.

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RE: Mental vs physical - 8/6/2011 10:17:15 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline 		FR

If a safeword is needed, its needed for everything.
If a safeword is needed at all after a reasonable amount of time/sessions (10-15) then somethings wrong.

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RE: Mental vs physical - 8/7/2011 1:23:49 AM   
VaguelyCurious


Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline 		What he said (which is a weird feeling.)

If you feel that you need a safeword then your partner hasn't inspired enough trust from you to get to not use one.

As for humiliation being somehow different and therefore not requiring a safeword when you're using one for impact play, that's....I'm not going to call it bullshit, because like littlewonder says whatever works for this guy works for this guy, but it's certainly an opinion I've never heard before.

In fact I don't know anyone who'd use a safeword for impact play and not for humiliation play. With impact play it's an awful lot easier to see if something goes wrong - you can see if you jar something or hit someone in the wrong way. But humiliation play is mostly internal - if he doesn't know you that well (which I'm guessing he doesn't, if the two of you are still debating safewords) then it's going to be much harder for him to read your signals and know that you're alright during humiliation play than during impact play.

Ask yourself (and him, actually): why don't you get a safeword during humiliation play? Is it because he trusts himself more to know when something's wrong? Because he's not going to push you as hard and therefore is absolutely positive that he won't trigger anything nasty? Or because he's got some big plan in mind and he doesn't want you to spoil it by being able to get out of it?

Think about whether or not you want to play with someone who gives whatever answer he gives, and whatever answer your intuition gives you. And bear in mind that not having a safeword doesn't mean not stopping when something goes wrong - it means him taking the responsibility to know without you being able to tell him. Do you trust him to do that? Both to stop if something goes wrong, and to notice that something's wrong in the first place?

I don't know the guy - only you do. But those are some questions I'd want answering if it was a friend of mine in your shoes.

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RE: Mental vs physical - 8/7/2011 4:57:06 AM   
Hisfreedom


Posts: 35
Joined: 8/6/2011
Status: offline 		Sometimes safewords can be more useful in mental play than even in impact play. Both things can cause harm and if the M doesn't know enough about your past it can be very easy to push too hard or too fast or to go into an area that could cause a major set back. The complicated part with mental is that the evidence isn't as readily noticeable. Such as with impact play, you won't see when a deeper mental bruise is beginning for example. And something that pushes a bad button on the slave could linger for a very long time after the scene/play.

Hitting a bad area for the s type could be like the "Five finger death punch" in Kill Bill 2...it may not seem like much at first and then a week later the s could be torn apart emotionally or mentally.

Does your M type know your history? What triggers you in negative ways?

Just my personal thoughts

~freedom

Edited for a spelling error


< Message edited by Hisfreedom -- 8/7/2011 4:58:17 AM >

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RE: Mental vs physical - 8/7/2011 5:07:58 AM   
HannahLynHeather


Posts: 2950
Joined: 4/4/2011
From: where it's at
Status: offline
quote:

If a safeword is needed, its needed for everything.
If a safeword is needed at all after a reasonable amount of time/sessions (10-15) then somethings wrong.
qfft!!


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RE: Mental vs physical - 8/7/2011 5:46:50 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		We tried humiliation. Once. My reaction was so negative that he decided it isn't something that's safe to do with me.

I wasn't able to speak, my response was to go nonverbal and try to run away. Stark naked. He held me down and brought me back.

If he was the kind of person to want to do things no matter how it hurt his partner, then I wouldn't be with him. Is that what you want in a partner, someone who doesn't care about how you feel? Some people do, I don't. Which are you?


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RE: Mental vs physical - 8/7/2011 5:58:57 AM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline 		I don't have much to add to the consensus that safewords should be applicable to any kind of play.

Except that, ultimately it's not for your dom to decide when a safeword is applicable or not, it's for you.

A safeword should be an unambiguous thing, it's a crystal clear withdrawal of consent.

And remember, you have the ultimate safewords at your disposal...
"fuck off, jackass, or I'll call the police"

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RE: Mental vs physical - 8/7/2011 6:14:28 AM   
HisPet21


Posts: 395
Status: offline 		You need a safe word for every situation, a word that allows you to escape both mental and physical situations that are taking you out of your safe zone.

I'd have to agree with VaguelyCurious here: You should definitely ask your partner why he doesn't want to give you a safe word for humiliation play. Is it because he considers himself god incarnate and claims to have the ability to notice whenever something goes wrong, without needing your help? Then don't play with him. He's egotistical to the point of being a danger to himself and to others. Is it because he couldn't care less if you are feeling uncomfortable with a situation, he wants what he wants? Then don't play with him. He's in this for his own jollies, and you're just a very nice toy he doesn't have any problem breaking. Is it because he feels that humiliation play isn't nearly as intense as physical play? Then don't play with him until he educates himself on BDSM and humiliation a bit more. His only crime, in this case, is being stupid...and stupidity can be cured, most of the time.

Keep in mind that a person who doesn't want to give you a safe word in the first place is less likely to acknowledge your safe word when, and if, you have to use it. I'd never play with someone who wasn't willing to give me a safe word. BIGGEST RED FLAG EVER.

Also,
quote:

And remember, you have the ultimate safewords at your disposal...
"fuck off, jackass, or I'll call the police"
FTW!

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RE: Mental vs physical - 8/7/2011 6:28:03 AM   
Aileen1968


Posts: 6062
Joined: 12/12/2007
From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HisPet21

You need a safe word for every situation, a word that allows you to escape both mental and physical situations that are taking you out of your safe zone.

I'd have to agree with VaguelyCurious here: You should definitely ask your partner why he doesn't want to give you a safe word for humiliation play. Is it because he considers himself god incarnate and claims to have the ability to notice whenever something goes wrong, without needing your help? Then don't play with him. He's egotistical to the point of being a danger to himself and to others. Is it because he couldn't care less if you are feeling uncomfortable with a situation, he wants what he wants? Then don't play with him. He's in this for his own jollies, and you're just a very nice toy he doesn't have any problem breaking. Is it because he feels that humiliation play isn't nearly as intense as physical play? Then don't play with him until he educates himself on BDSM and humiliation a bit more. His only crime, in this case, is being stupid...and stupidity can be cured, most of the time.

Keep in mind that a person who doesn't want to give you a safe word in the first place is less likely to acknowledge your safe word when, and if, you have to use it. I'd never play with someone who wasn't willing to give me a safe word. BIGGEST RED FLAG EVER.

Also,
quote:

And remember, you have the ultimate safewords at your disposal...
"fuck off, jackass, or I'll call the police"
FTW!


I probably disagree with every thing you just wrote.
Safewords are not perfect and they do fail. Not everyone has a need for them.
I find that picking your partner well and have great communication works so much better.
I don't have a safe word and if I was to ask Shorey for one, I'm pretty damn sure he'd laugh right in my face and tell me no fucking way.
Trust me...he ain't stupid, egotistical, a danger, in it for his own jollies (well maybe just a little). He also doesn't break his toys.
In fact, he kinda likes me and takes very good care of me.
He is guilty of not caring if I'm feeling uncomfortable. In fact, he gets off on me being uncomfortable. I do too...

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RE: Mental vs physical - 8/7/2011 7:08:58 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

FR

If a safeword is needed, its needed for everything.
If a safeword is needed at all after a reasonable amount of time/sessions (10-15) then somethings wrong.


BS

Like he's magically going to know when my vertigo starts up? Hell I don't always know a spell is coming on. Sometimes a bad position will cause it to act up. That means I need out of that tie immediately if not sooner.


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RE: Mental vs physical - 8/7/2011 7:23:59 AM   
Aileen1968


Posts: 6062
Joined: 12/12/2007
From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
Status: offline 		But if you can say a safe word, then why can't you just say to him....I'm not feeling good?

I have a bum shoulder, a torn cuff. It really starts to scream based on where it's tied and how it's tied sometimes.
When that happens I look at him and tell him that my shoulder is shot. He then repositions me.
I don't say some mystical word that he then has to go through 20 questions to find out what the problem is.
He knows because I told him.

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RE: Mental vs physical - 8/7/2011 7:27:55 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		I agree.

my safe word is simply either STOP, or ENOUGH.

THEN we can discusss what the issue is.

but regardless if it is a physical issue or an emotional issue.. simply saying stop should be enough.

ETA: I get that some folks use 'stop' as a part of their scene.. forced whatever.

IMO, there should be something else in place (like, maybe.. ENOUGH, for example, that signals "SERIOUSLY, stop now")

I've never found the random safewords useful.. if I am spaced, or in distress I can pretty much guarantee that trying to dredge up "hedgehog" from my memory isnt gonna work so well....

< Message edited by GreedyTop -- 8/7/2011 7:31:17 AM >

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RE: Mental vs physical - 8/7/2011 7:58:16 AM   
lizi


Posts: 4673
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline 		Do you know everything about yourself? Mental play has some built in dangers that physical does not. People's bodies generally tend to have the same range in tolerances and dangers to watch out for, people's psyches can vary much more widely. If you knew everything about yourself then you could warn your partner ahead of time but is it possible to know every single feeling you'll have and if you'll want to continue with something or not?

Plus there's always a surprise in there I find, I think I'll know how I react to something mental (or even physical) and then find out it's quite different. For that reason I think a safeword or the ability to speak up for yourself and be taken seriously is needed. You can't always say yourself how you'll react to something, why would you expect your Dominant partner to be able to not only read your mind, but predict absolutely how you will feel?

Human beings are strange complex animals, it's impossible to know every thing about them and have it right every time. I feel there should always be an avenue to take to share important information and have it be listenened to no matter what your position is.

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