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We Bring it Upon Ourselves - 8/7/2011 12:19:09 PM   
puella


Posts: 2457
Joined: 12/2/2004
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At what point did it become a fairly common idea amongst those of this community (and it is VERY common, in my experience) that if a woman is submissive she must therefore be:

a. a slut, easy …. or at least, easier...
b. so desperate, by very nature, to please anyone that she has no control over herself or her desires and has gleefully surrendered any sort of personal moral compass
c. open to and longing for men /women (even those she does not know)to treat her with less respect and common decency than a person who does not identify as submissive
d. knowing of this about themselves, so as to not only expect and understand that they will be a less worthy, less important and less deserving person (based solely upon that one aspect of self alone), they willingly submit to it (and perhaps even secretly desire it)

Time and time and time again, I (and I am sure, many others) have been subjected to a full spectrum of this thinking and attitude, from full on unbelievable rudeness and ideas of entitlement to just mild, sinuously oily innuendo or reproof, both here and in offline interactions.

How many times have I heard, even from people whom I believe genuinely like and know me, that perhaps, as I am not as sexually promiscuous or forthcoming as is common, that perhaps I do not belong in this community, on Fetlife, or Collarme,or even at a D/s function....

How many times have I been approached without even the tiniest modicum of respect that you would afford to any stranger, and been given an insidious look, have had the very first words of greeting to be uncomfortably knowing,assuming and oppressively inappropriate?

How many times have I confronted this behavior and been told... "What do you expect... you say you are submissive," "Look where you are," "Look at yourself"....."What do you expect?" How many times have I politely asked in return of a frightfully presumptuous greeting.... “If you had just met me in line at the grocery store, or at a bar, would you have said _just that_ to introduce yourself to me?”, and been told in rebuttal, simply... “I though you said you were submissive....”

How MANY times have I heard that outright “You said you were submissive...” and the hideously implied “You were asking for it...”

Really? I don't remember asking for that.

Am I to believe that Fetlife, Collarme and any and all D/s related arenas and functions I may attend, espouse the idea that their only reason for being is because the people who are dominant or submissive believe that D/s is _singularly_ a SEXUAL facet of themselves,the places they choose to frequent, and their congress with like-minded individuals, and thus, anyone who presents themselves in such forums is really just ones way of stepping out with some sort of neon “You Can Grope And Fuck Me, I'm Submissive” or “I Will Whip And Fuck You, I Am Dominant” billboard of intention?

That is all D/s is about anymore? Getting a leg over?... The way you choose to fuck and accoutrements you bring to the arena before doing so???

Certainly there is (or rather there can be but does not have to be) a component of sexuality in D/s relations,a very strong one, even.... but when I say that I am submissive, I am saying, that that is an organic part of who I am as a human being. It has always been within me and It has grown and developed as I have as a woman. It is more than any one thing, and is an integral part of who I am.....

It is ONE part of who I am...

It is not all that I am.

And it does not entitle others to anything at all.

I do understand that there are a few bad apples in every crowd... but this has become a more pervasive attitude than I believe is acknowledged. It does not always arrive in the glaringly obvious, smarmy come-ons. It is not always delivered by random strangers just trying to cash in on the numbers game by blasting out at every chick who seems available...

And it is not always the dominants who make this behavior not only happen, but casually, inch by inch, to become more tolerable... more acceptable... less egregious.

I am submissive. I am passionate. And I do not want to be treated like some sort of communal whoring chattel...not mildly and certainly not overtly.

That is not what being submissive means to me.

It is an intensely personal, poignant and dangerously soul-baring part of who I am, and how I love. It is not something I can, should, or want to give out to everyone in every way.

It is not something I HAVE to give to everyone or anyone, in anyway, even if casually, there are parts of my submissive nature that do tend manifest innocuously, in my relations with just about everyone...

My desire to be treated as a sentient being does not diminish that part of who I am that is submissive.

My absolute and resolute decision to not allow people to treat me with disrespect, inappropriate behaviors, or an assumed set of allowable impositions, does not make me less submissive.

My refusal to be overtly sexual with people with whom I am not in relationship, does not make me less submissive.

My refusal to hold the highest of standards for myself, my refusal to lower myself, my dignity and my principals as a human being, even (or perhaps even especially!!) in a D/s environment, does not make me less of a submissive.

“We” pride ourselves on being an open, tolerant community. We pride ourselves on being sexually aware and socially accepting.

Would we accept some of the behaviors and assumptive interactions that are so commonplace as to almost go unnoticed, if they were dosed out to those who did not identify as a dominant or submissive... would it be OK for a dominant to go up to a 'vanilla' friend and touch her breast or pat her ass or say some of the things that are so often thought of as glib and knowing by those who are in the lifestyle?

I just impress upon all of us to really think about the little things we do and expect (or just expect to get away with) because... we are in a D/s setting.

Notice your comments, notice your touching, notice the different way you treat submissives versus non-lifestylers.

And stop trying to foist your own brand of what it means to be dominant or submissive, your own needs, off on others. They might well be different, but thinking them less or less committed is a dangerous path to walk down... in your own psyche.


Wooh! That was a lengthy rant!

_____________________________

We must move forward, not backward, upward, not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom...... The Simpsons

War is God's way of teaching Americans geography." ...Ambrose Bierce

"Don't you oppress me!"....Stan/Loretta
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RE: We Bring it Upon Ourselves - 8/7/2011 12:38:59 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
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I've been doing "this" for over 10 years now and it's always been prevalent unfortunately.

When I am confronted by such people which is quite often I usually just ignore them be they on here or in real life.




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RE: We Bring it Upon Ourselves - 8/7/2011 12:43:08 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


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1.  I don't personally consider a website/forum a "community".

2.  Big difference between "a slut" and "His slut" (or "Her slut").

3.  Some seek degradation/humiliation/objectification... i.e., they get off on the "no respect" thing -- many don't. (shrugs).

4.  There are idiots on both sides of the slash.


I think that about covers it?!!





< Message edited by MasterSlaveLA -- 8/7/2011 1:00:26 PM >


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It's only kinky the first time!!!

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RE: We Bring it Upon Ourselves - 8/7/2011 12:47:55 PM   
puella


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Just for clarification... I was referring to offline, local communities, not just online venues... sorry if that was unclear.

_____________________________

We must move forward, not backward, upward, not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom...... The Simpsons

War is God's way of teaching Americans geography." ...Ambrose Bierce

"Don't you oppress me!"....Stan/Loretta

(in reply to MasterSlaveLA)
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RE: We Bring it Upon Ourselves - 8/7/2011 12:52:19 PM   
UniqueRaven


Posts: 1237
Joined: 9/30/2009
From: Austin, TX
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I've never experienced this, either online, or off. I have seen it done to others, I've just never had anyone treat me like that.

Probably because I don't have much of a pre-conceived notion of how I'm supposed to be treated...I simply serve, and I make the boundaries really clear around what that service entails (not sexual). And if I'm in a situation where I'm nervous or can't do that, then I either hang out with a dominant friend, or I just don't put myself in that situation to start with.

Also, I kinda like it a bit - it is that air of mystery, men know that in the bedroom I'm a total whore, but I'm a class act in public. It's intriguing to them. And they treat me with class as a result - heck a lot of them protect me as a result.

I don't know, I really can't put my finger on it other than to say...I've always acted with class and dignity, and looked for the best in others. It seems to bring out the best in return.

_____________________________

"My life has no purpose, no direction, no aim, no meaning, and yet I'm happy. I can't figure it out. What am I doing right?" ~Snoopy (Charles Schultz)

My blog is at http://takinghishand.wordpress.com

(in reply to puella)
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RE: We Bring it Upon Ourselves - 8/7/2011 12:55:23 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
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I've been treated like "a slut" by men in public. It's usually because they see my tattoos <which are done for spiritual purposes> and think I must be wild and crazy and extremely sexual which couldn't be further from the truth. I always told them that if they really knew me they'd find me truly boring. Don't drink, don't smoke, don't sleep around,  usually home most nights by 10 pm, have a typically normal conservative life, etc....

For some reason they rarely believe me though so that's when I just walk away from the situation and go home.



_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

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RE: We Bring it Upon Ourselves - 8/7/2011 12:55:27 PM   
agirl


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Joined: 6/14/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: puella


Wooh! That was a lengthy rant!



Yes, it was.

I've not had anything remotely like this experience with guys....Sure, the odd tosser but not even enough to count on one hand in 10 yrs.

Does it really matter? You know you're ok so it's of no consequence what others think of you, surely?

It's quite interesting to hear how other people get met with such shite to the point that it really bothers them. Maybe it's a cluster thing.

agirl




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See how easy it can be?

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RE: We Bring it Upon Ourselves - 8/7/2011 12:58:19 PM   
UniqueRaven


Posts: 1237
Joined: 9/30/2009
From: Austin, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

Yes, it was.

I've not had anything remotely like this experience with guys....Sure, the odd tosser but not even enough to count on one hand in 10 yrs.

Does it really matter? You know you're ok so it's of no consequence what others think of you, surely?
It's quite interesting to hear how other people get met with such shite to the point that it really bothers them. Maybe it's a cluster thing.

agirl



The bolded part is what I was trying to get at. Thanks for saying it more clearly than me.

_____________________________

"My life has no purpose, no direction, no aim, no meaning, and yet I'm happy. I can't figure it out. What am I doing right?" ~Snoopy (Charles Schultz)

My blog is at http://takinghishand.wordpress.com

(in reply to agirl)
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RE: We Bring it Upon Ourselves - 8/7/2011 1:05:35 PM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

I've been treated like "a slut" by men in public. It's usually because they see my tattoos <which are done for spiritual purposes> and think I must be wild and crazy and extremely sexual which couldn't be further from the truth. I always told them that if they really knew me they'd find me truly boring. Don't drink, don't smoke, don't sleep around,  usually home most nights by 10 pm, have a typically normal conservative life, etc....

For some reason they rarely believe me though so that's when I just walk away from the situation and go home.




As a disclaimer, I am not defending that guys act like that, I find it completely unacceptable to treat anybody as a slut in public, but I can see that the tattoos might give them the wrong ideas, a bit like wearing very provocative clothes and flashing your assets, which is still not an excuse to be rude, one of the reasons why I picked very discrete places for my tats (all on the small of my back) because I don't want random people to see them, they were done for me and my own reasons. Again, not defending what those guys do or saying it is remotely right to act like that, just me wanting to avoid that people act like that and of course work reasons.

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to littlewonder)
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RE: We Bring it Upon Ourselves - 8/7/2011 1:05:52 PM   
puella


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Joined: 12/2/2004
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Of couse I am ok with myself, that is not the issue. I am sure many people of color, women, and other groups who still feel the weight of societal assumptions have legitimate reasons for being distressed at not only being pigeon holed, but addressed and treated improperly, however.

The point of my rant is not that I am so upset over poor little me, but rather the blind eye that is cast, with ever more increasing regularity. For instance, I have noticedmuch more shock and horror abound if a person dared touch a Dom's equipment mid scene, than if a person was being smarmy overbearing and inappropriate to a sub. Ironic that the equipment is given more respect than the person it is used upon. etc etc

_____________________________

We must move forward, not backward, upward, not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom...... The Simpsons

War is God's way of teaching Americans geography." ...Ambrose Bierce

"Don't you oppress me!"....Stan/Loretta

(in reply to UniqueRaven)
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RE: We Bring it Upon Ourselves - 8/7/2011 1:08:52 PM   
LadyConstanze


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Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: puella



The point of my rant is not that I am so upset over poor little me, but rather the blind eye that is cast, with ever more increasing regularity. For instance, I have noticedmuch more shock and horror abound if a person dared touch a Dom's equipment mid scene, than if a person was being smarmy overbearing and inappropriate to a sub. Ironic that the equipment is given more respect than the person it is used upon. etc etc


Never noticed that myself, in fact I am often quite shocked at a play party or fetish even how many guys just ask to be whipped without even asking me about the tools, for all they know I could have borrowed them, could not care for them properly, not disinfect them, etc.

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to puella)
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RE: We Bring it Upon Ourselves - 8/7/2011 1:21:29 PM   
UniqueRaven


Posts: 1237
Joined: 9/30/2009
From: Austin, TX
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I guess I don't understand your rant then. Are you upset because this happens? Because people are disrespectful to others all the time, this isn't just a D/s thing.

In churches, clubs, communities, in groups of all sorts people frequently don't treat each other in the way that they think they "should" be treated - it goes back to the dawn of humanity.

I'm not aware of any special code or requirements for D/s that says we're supposed to be treated in any particular way, other than in the leather and "Old Guard" communities - but even then not everyone belongs to those communties, or holds those beliefs. It's like the Doms who think that they all should be called "Sir" or "Master" just because they demand it. If someone doesn't want to treat another person in a certain way, then they don't have to, bottom line. *shrugs* A person gets to choose who they associate with, and what kind of treatment is important to them.

For me, if someone wants to make assumptions about me and what they can do to me because I'm a slave, then so be it - I can't stop their assumptions, or demand they think differently. I can choose if I want to be around them. And if someone touches me inappropriately, I can pull back and say, "please don't touch me." I can also just walk away. It's not a big deal to me, I'm happy with who I am and I care about those I spend time with. Getting worked up about it is - for me - not a good use of energy, in my opinion.



_____________________________

"My life has no purpose, no direction, no aim, no meaning, and yet I'm happy. I can't figure it out. What am I doing right?" ~Snoopy (Charles Schultz)

My blog is at http://takinghishand.wordpress.com

(in reply to puella)
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RE: We Bring it Upon Ourselves - 8/7/2011 1:27:31 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: puella

Of couse I am ok with myself, that is not the issue. I am sure many people of color, women, and other groups who still feel the weight of societal assumptions have legitimate reasons for being distressed at not only being pigeon holed, but addressed and treated improperly, however.

The point of my rant is not that I am so upset over poor little me, but rather the blind eye that is cast, with ever more increasing regularity. For instance, I have noticedmuch more shock and horror abound if a person dared touch a Dom's equipment mid scene, than if a person was being smarmy overbearing and inappropriate to a sub. Ironic that the equipment is given more respect than the person it is used upon. etc etc


There's no accounting for folk. What one will put up with, another won't.

I can easily bear an inappropriate bore but if anyone touched my banjo, I'd want to be brutal. Seriously, do NOT touch my banjo.

You can't compare things in this way in a rational manner. It's rude to do either and they aren't comparable.

agirl


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See how easy it can be?

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RE: We Bring it Upon Ourselves - 8/7/2011 3:56:54 PM   
DrakeAndPhoenix


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This thread seems to be illustrating the other half of the problem really well. "It's never happened to me/There are jerks everywhere/Not my problem/Just ignore it, there's nothing you can do." Not speaking up or saying that this sort of disrespect is wrong just sends the signal that these sorts of jerks can keep doing this, that its okay. It doesn't matter that these types of people are everywhere, because its still wrong. And for ever one true jerk, there's a handful of newbies, people who are very impressionable, who don't know how they're supposed to act, who pick up on this behaviour and assume its correct, and perpetuate the cycle.

Every single person deserves respect. Nobody should have to 'just put up with it'. A Dom/me who can't respect s-types simply because they're s-types is no Dom/me at all, just a power-tripping jerk.

(ETA: This is Phoenix, the sub on this shared account)

< Message edited by DrakeAndPhoenix -- 8/7/2011 3:57:39 PM >

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RE: We Bring it Upon Ourselves - 8/7/2011 4:44:37 PM   
Missokyst


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I never found an issue with these things. At least not after the first time the assumption was made and clearly quashed and mocked for idiocy. Thereafter people with those bad habits moved on to less capable targets. Just like regular life. Bottom feeders seek out the weak.

_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


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RE: We Bring it Upon Ourselves - 8/7/2011 4:48:31 PM   
Amygdalin


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It's my opinion if a Dominant isn't responsible or mature enough to treat anyone (whether you're submissive or not) with genuine respect as a person, he most likely lacks that same responsibility and maturity to maintain an actual, healthy D/s relationship.

Me personally, I don't treat anyone any differently because of how they relate in this dynamic. I think it sucks that some people have had to deal with that. I think you're probably just best off doing what littlewonder does. Just ignoring them and leaving. It's their loss, right?

(in reply to DrakeAndPhoenix)
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RE: We Bring it Upon Ourselves - 8/7/2011 5:30:47 PM   
HannahLynHeather


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From: where it's at
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so you find that horny self-proclaimed doms assume they can just fuck you? sweet fucking christ's bloody feet, say it ain't so!

most guys are jerks. deal with it.



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fuck a duck ~w. disney

My Twitter: http://twitter.com/HannahFuck

i hope you enjoyed the post, and as always my friends....have a nice day

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RE: We Bring it Upon Ourselves - 8/7/2011 5:44:11 PM   
Buzzzz


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when I notice people like that , I just make a note in my "little black book in the back of my head" and stay away from them.

_____________________________

_"Here is something you should never do to anyone.And here is exactly how to do it to someone you care about". Flagg._



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RE: We Bring it Upon Ourselves - 8/7/2011 5:49:49 PM   
JanahX


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At what point? About the same time I concluded that Dominants are misogynists/misandrists.

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The second rule of Fight Club is you do not talk about Fight Club.


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RE: We Bring it Upon Ourselves - 8/7/2011 6:05:35 PM   
chiaThePet


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quote:

ORIGINAL: puella

a slut, easy …. or at least, easier...



Ain't it the truth.

I must spend half my time informing, "Hey your fly is open".

That's usually followed by, "Breakfast?"

There's just this expectation one has to live up to.

chia* (the pet)

< Message edited by chiaThePet -- 8/7/2011 6:06:47 PM >


_____________________________

Love is a many splendid sting.

You can stick me in the corner, but I'll probably just end up coloring on the walls.

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