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RE: roiting in croydon and penge - 8/9/2011 9:41:09 AM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

Not all of the chavs are out to loot...
Sadly, the people who are keen to give the Met a good hiding over their institutional racism and prejudice against the underclass and/or nick stuff tend not to be from the upper end of the social scale. They wouldn't be living on a vile estate in east London if they were, would they?
Thank you for that Moonhead.

Now what was it you said LadyC? Oh yes.....
quote:

I'm not convinced that at random news gives you a much better insight,
Well, apparently it does, now doesn't it?

What was that?
quote:

Feel free to ignore everything we say
Well I must say, that does seem to be the sensible course of action, don't you agree?

As far as the original shooting, the details I have found (as of around 7 hours ago) are that they did find a "non-police" gun at the scene, and that one police radio had been hit by a "police issue" bullet. I leave you to interpret that anyway you want.



I'm sure you believe whatever you wish to believe and that the looters are political activists - seems they are common criminals, but hey, defend them if you feel the need. I hope they're going to get nailed.

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RE: roiting in croydon and penge - 8/9/2011 9:52:51 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		There's actually an interesting link about that...

quote:

...here's a sad truth, expressed by a Londoner when asked by a television reporter: Is rioting the correct way to express your discontent?

"Yes," said the young man. "You wouldn't be talking to me now if we didn't riot, would you?"

The TV reporter from Britain's ITV had no response. So the young man pressed his advantage. "Two months ago we marched to Scotland Yard, more than 2,000 of us, all blacks, and it was peaceful and calm and you know what? Not a word in the press. Last night a bit of rioting and looting and look around you."


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Profile   Post #: 122
RE: roiting in croydon and penge - 8/9/2011 9:53:42 AM   
kdsub


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quote:

You're missing a pretty obvious point: beat police over here don't carry guns as a matter of course in the first place. Not even tasers. The dead idiot that kicked all this kerfuffle off attacked a firearms team.


You don't really think the shooting is the real cause of these riots do you?...And shot is shot...dead is dead...the police did it and it makes no difference which sub department has the guns. Your police are no different than ours...they are human.

Butch

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RE: roiting in croydon and penge - 8/9/2011 9:55:54 AM   
CreepyStalker


Posts: 265
Joined: 2/12/2011
Status: offline 		IPCC report on the news at the moment - Duggan never drew a weapon, all shots (including the one in the officer's radio) were fired by the police. Carrying a gun in a sock is in no way enough of a crime to justify his killing.
(Also it's entirely possible the gun may have belonged to the taxi driver, it's not uncommon in that sort of area.)


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Profile   Post #: 124
RE: roiting in croydon and penge - 8/9/2011 9:57:51 AM   
tj444


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Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

There's actually an interesting link about that...

quote:

...here's a sad truth, expressed by a Londoner when asked by a television reporter: Is rioting the correct way to express your discontent?

"Yes," said the young man. "You wouldn't be talking to me now if we didn't riot, would you?"

The TV reporter from Britain's ITV had no response. So the young man pressed his advantage. "Two months ago we marched to Scotland Yard, more than 2,000 of us, all blacks, and it was peaceful and calm and you know what? Not a word in the press. Last night a bit of rioting and looting and look around you."


then doesnt that show that its the media that decides what is newsworthy? Perhaps the newspapers and tv stations need their windows smashed and computers stolen.. you know, so the discontent get their point across real good.

But really, even if the media had reported the peaceful 2000 person march.. do you really think anyone watching the telly would have paid any mind... or would they have just changed the channel to watch something more provocative?

eta- i personally dont think either peaceful protests or riots do anything to change things one iota.

< Message edited by tj444 -- 8/9/2011 10:00:47 AM >

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RE: roiting in croydon and penge - 8/9/2011 10:13:27 AM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		Yes, it was wrong that the police killed the guy.  I don't think anyone is questioning that.  But, how is breaking store windows and looting related at all to that incident?


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreepyStalker

IPCC report on the news at the moment - Duggan never drew a weapon, all shots (including the one in the officer's radio) were fired by the police. Carrying a gun in a sock is in no way enough of a crime to justify his killing.
(Also it's entirely possible the gun may have belonged to the taxi driver, it's not uncommon in that sort of area.)



_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

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Profile   Post #: 126
RE: roiting in croydon and penge - 8/9/2011 10:21:31 AM   
VaguelyCurious


Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

You mean they would go after a harmless, law abiding citizen, make sure he's shot in a cab, plant a gun on him, involve the fire arms team all for no reason, just to have the chance to cover up a crime they committed?

You mean...as opposed to involving a firearms team
Then publishing statements saying that a man was wearing a bulky, potentially bomb-concealing jacket
And that he ran from them
And jumped over the barriers at Stockwell Station
And that they repeatedly shouted for him to stop and he ignored them?

(Whereas he was actually wearing a light summer jacket, walked into the station and bought a paper on his way down to the platform and didn't know a thing about their presence until they surrounded him and killed him?)

No, I can't imagine that they'd ever do a thing like give out erroneous statements after a civilian fatality.
I can't imagine that at all.
None of the above sounds in the least bit familiar.

I would 100% believe any statement pre-inquiry that the police give out.
Honestly I would.

(How are your irony detectors doing, people?)

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Profile   Post #: 127
RE: roiting in croydon and penge - 8/9/2011 10:36:52 AM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious
No, I can't imagine that they'd ever do a thing like give out erroneous statements after a civilian fatality.
I can't imagine that at all.
None of the above sounds in the least bit familiar.

I would 100% believe any statement pre-inquiry that the police give out.
Honestly I would.

(How are your irony detectors doing, people?)

there are tons of cameras all over London, I would think that one or more would have caught the events on video..

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Profile   Post #: 128
RE: roiting in croydon and penge - 8/9/2011 10:47:37 AM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreepyStalker

IPCC report on the news at the moment - Duggan never drew a weapon, all shots (including the one in the officer's radio) were fired by the police. Carrying a gun in a sock is in no way enough of a crime to justify his killing.
(Also it's entirely possible the gun may have belonged to the taxi driver, it's not uncommon in that sort of area.)



We are talking about the innocent victim, the guy who has gangster poses all over the web, flash cars, lots of jewelry but coming from this poor estate and on his way home from work, only there isn't an employment record so far, the same guy who his friends call "elder" and who had a gun with him?

_____________________________

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(in reply to CreepyStalker)
Profile   Post #: 129
RE: roiting in croydon and penge - 8/9/2011 10:49:21 AM   
CreepyStalker


Posts: 265
Joined: 2/12/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

Yes, it was wrong that the police killed the guy.  I don't think anyone is questioning that.  But, how is breaking store windows and looting related at all to that incident?


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreepyStalker

IPCC report on the news at the moment - Duggan never drew a weapon, all shots (including the one in the officer's radio) were fired by the police. Carrying a gun in a sock is in no way enough of a crime to justify his killing.
(Also it's entirely possible the gun may have belonged to the taxi driver, it's not uncommon in that sort of area.)




People are angry. Do you really need it explained to you how a catalyst works?


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Profile   Post #: 130
RE: roiting in croydon and penge - 8/9/2011 10:49:49 AM   
VaguelyCurious


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Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

there are tons of cameras all over London, I would think that one or more would have caught the events on video..

I think you overestimate the range of a fixed-angle cctv camera.

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Profile   Post #: 131
RE: roiting in croydon and penge - 8/9/2011 10:52:18 AM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		I'll bet there are plenty of people breaking store windows today who never even heard of that guy.  But, whatever. You can believe that it is a political protest if you want to.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreepyStalker

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

Yes, it was wrong that the police killed the guy.  I don't think anyone is questioning that.  But, how is breaking store windows and looting related at all to that incident?


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreepyStalker

IPCC report on the news at the moment - Duggan never drew a weapon, all shots (including the one in the officer's radio) were fired by the police. Carrying a gun in a sock is in no way enough of a crime to justify his killing.
(Also it's entirely possible the gun may have belonged to the taxi driver, it's not uncommon in that sort of area.)




People are angry. Do you really need it explained to you how a catalyst works?



_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to CreepyStalker)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: roiting in croydon and penge - 8/9/2011 10:55:37 AM   
CreepyStalker


Posts: 265
Joined: 2/12/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreepyStalker

IPCC report on the news at the moment - Duggan never drew a weapon, all shots (including the one in the officer's radio) were fired by the police. Carrying a gun in a sock is in no way enough of a crime to justify his killing.
(Also it's entirely possible the gun may have belonged to the taxi driver, it's not uncommon in that sort of area.)



We are talking about the innocent victim, the guy who has gangster poses all over the web, flash cars, lots of jewelry but coming from this poor estate and on his way home from work, only there isn't an employment record so far, the same guy who his friends call "elder" and who had a gun with him?


Yes, that same guy who did not attack the police or provoke them to shoot. You don't get to execute a person just because you've decided they're a baddie.


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Profile   Post #: 133
RE: roiting in croydon and penge - 8/9/2011 10:57:52 AM   
CreepyStalker


Posts: 265
Joined: 2/12/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

I'll bet there are plenty of people breaking store windows today who never even heard of that guy.  But, whatever. You can believe that it is a political protest if you want to.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreepyStalker

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

Yes, it was wrong that the police killed the guy.  I don't think anyone is questioning that.  But, how is breaking store windows and looting related at all to that incident?


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreepyStalker

IPCC report on the news at the moment - Duggan never drew a weapon, all shots (including the one in the officer's radio) were fired by the police. Carrying a gun in a sock is in no way enough of a crime to justify his killing.
(Also it's entirely possible the gun may have belonged to the taxi driver, it's not uncommon in that sort of area.)




People are angry. Do you really need it explained to you how a catalyst works?




Firstly, have you read anything I've posted? Anything at all?
Secondly, look up the definition of the word 'catalyst', because apparently you do need it explained.

*Massive facepalm*


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Profile   Post #: 134
RE: roiting in croydon and penge - 8/9/2011 10:59:10 AM   
VaguelyCurious


Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

I'll bet there are plenty of people breaking store windows today who never even heard of that guy.  But, whatever. You can believe that it is a political protest if you want to.

Two things:
1) if you think that's what she's saying then you've misunderstood the meaning of the word 'catalyst'.
2) Don't take the American general illiteracy and allergy to news sources as an international standard, because frankly it isn't one. People have heard of that guy, trust me. Even our thugs are pretty fucking politically informed.

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Profile   Post #: 135
RE: roiting in croydon and penge - 8/9/2011 11:13:00 AM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		I have read ever single post on this thread, although I must admit, I am rapidly losing interest.  I understand what you are saying, I just don't agree with you.

But have it your way.  You've convinced me.  Stealing jeans from the Gap is a political statement.  And Vaguely, glad to know you have a better class of thugs in the UK.  That made me laugh, and frankly, doesn't surprise me.  That accent always makes people sound smarter than they really are.

Viva la revolution!

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreepyStalker

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

I'll bet there are plenty of people breaking store windows today who never even heard of that guy.  But, whatever. You can believe that it is a political protest if you want to.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreepyStalker

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

Yes, it was wrong that the police killed the guy.  I don't think anyone is questioning that.  But, how is breaking store windows and looting related at all to that incident?


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreepyStalker

IPCC report on the news at the moment - Duggan never drew a weapon, all shots (including the one in the officer's radio) were fired by the police. Carrying a gun in a sock is in no way enough of a crime to justify his killing.
(Also it's entirely possible the gun may have belonged to the taxi driver, it's not uncommon in that sort of area.)




People are angry. Do you really need it explained to you how a catalyst works?




Firstly, have you read anything I've posted? Anything at all?
Secondly, look up the definition of the word 'catalyst', because apparently you do need it explained.

*Massive facepalm*



_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to CreepyStalker)
Profile   Post #: 136
RE: roiting in croydon and penge - 8/9/2011 11:17:05 AM   
hlen5


Posts: 5890
Joined: 3/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

..............Various people have expressed the view that the rioters were only relatively well-to-do thugs out to grab a bit of swag, rather than mostly angry poor people venting their anger. That is the view I am disputing.



Listening to BBC World Service, they stated the looters were opportunists hijacking what started as a legitimate protest. They said looters were observed keeping in contact (on Blackberries) with where the police were not and getting into their cars to go to a new place to loot.



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Profile   Post #: 137
RE: roiting in croydon and penge - 8/9/2011 11:19:51 AM   
CreepyStalker


Posts: 265
Joined: 2/12/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

I have read ever single post on this thread, although I must admit, I am rapidly losing interest.  I understand what you are saying, I just don't agree with you.

But have it your way.  You've convinced me.  Stealing jeans from the Gap is a political statement.  And Vaguely, glad to know you have a better class of thugs in the UK.  That made me laugh, and frankly, doesn't surprise me.  That accent always makes people sound smarter than they really are.

Viva la revolution!

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreepyStalker

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

I'll bet there are plenty of people breaking store windows today who never even heard of that guy.  But, whatever. You can believe that it is a political protest if you want to.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreepyStalker

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

Yes, it was wrong that the police killed the guy.  I don't think anyone is questioning that.  But, how is breaking store windows and looting related at all to that incident?


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreepyStalker

IPCC report on the news at the moment - Duggan never drew a weapon, all shots (including the one in the officer's radio) were fired by the police. Carrying a gun in a sock is in no way enough of a crime to justify his killing.
(Also it's entirely possible the gun may have belonged to the taxi driver, it's not uncommon in that sort of area.)




People are angry. Do you really need it explained to you how a catalyst works?




Firstly, have you read anything I've posted? Anything at all?
Secondly, look up the definition of the word 'catalyst', because apparently you do need it explained.

*Massive facepalm*





So it's not just the word 'catalyst' you don't understand, it's the English language as a whole then? If you reckon I could have 'convinced you' it's a political protest by consistently arguing the exact opposite, you're clearly suffering from a severe lack of basic comprehension and intelligence.


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RE: roiting in croydon and penge - 8/9/2011 11:26:57 AM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

there are tons of cameras all over London, I would think that one or more would have caught the events on video..

I think you overestimate the range of a fixed-angle cctv camera.

hmmm, i thought they were all the pan tilt zoom kind of cameras?

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 139
RE: roiting in croydon and penge - 8/9/2011 11:28:58 AM   
VaguelyCurious


Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline 		Some of them are, but certainly not all. I think (but am not sure) that the majority are fixed-angle.

The moving ones are like a gazillion times more expensive.

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Profile   Post #: 140
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