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RE: How do you know? - 5/21/2006 8:13:02 AM

puella

Posts: 2457
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline

Hello eroticangel,

At this stage of the development of this relationship I do not think you can lay this responsibility at his feet. If you feel he needs something which disgusts you and which you are unwilling to give, it is your responsibility to let that be known, and if he can and wants to live without it, proceed; and if he is unwilling to compromise on this point, and neither can you, then you need to make choice to leave. It is no tick against him, in my opinion, at this stage, before you are in a committed relationship. These are the kinds of things you should be finding out before you surrender.

Good luck.

(in reply to eroticangel)

Post #: 21

RE: How do you know? - 5/21/2006 8:13:13 AM

SweetSarijane

Posts: 3788
Joined: 10/7/2005
From: KC area Missouri
Status: offline

If he doesn't respect your hard limits, what else will he not respect? Doesn't sound like he's the one for you. Listen to your inner warning system. Chances are good it's time to move on.

Best of luck.

_____________________________

Sarah2
Deviant Mind
Wild Side Readers KCSass

(in reply to NDulgance)

Post #: 22

RE: How do you know? - 5/21/2006 8:27:27 AM

sweetbbwsub31

Posts: 331
Joined: 3/22/2006
Status: offline

In my opinion, hard limits are hard limits. If you were clear that this was one of your hard limits and he did it anyway, it seems that he didn't respect you. A Dom should push your limits eventually but not completely disregard your hard limits in one of your initial meetings.

sub tara

(in reply to eroticangel)

Post #: 23

RE: How do you know? - 5/21/2006 8:33:42 AM

sweetbbwsub31

Posts: 331
Joined: 3/22/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TopDominant

Yikes! What's wrong with you girl? He didn't respect your limits? GET OUT.

Thank you Top Dominant. Subbies can warn her all day but coming from a Dom perhaps she will think twice about putting herself in a bad situation again.

sub tara

(in reply to TopDominant)

Post #: 24

RE: How do you know? - 5/21/2006 8:42:01 AM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

(using fast reply)

There are things I thought I would never ever be able to do, which I do now. However, it took time and trust and devotion to do such things. I could not have started right out of the gate with him doing something so intense, which not only had I never done before, but which I felt I could not do, physically or emotionally.

If a Master wants something out of his slave which she feels is over the top for her, then he prepares her for it. He explores her fears and concerns about it, and, lo and behold, if he inspires her to want to let go of this part of herself, her bond with him is so much stronger.

For some, "scat play" is incredibly emotionally upsetting. To say "I will not own you until I shit on you" simply lacks finesse and shows ignorance. If such a statement was followed up with a clear desire to understand why this is a limit for you, then he may well be a Master who wants to get inside your mind and understand you. He could very well be a Master who requires that type of service in a slave. If you are unwilling to consider it at all cost, then he is not the Master for you.

(in reply to sweetbbwsub31)

Post #: 25

RE: How do you know? - 5/21/2006 8:59:13 AM

BBBTBW

Posts: 836
Joined: 5/21/2004
Status: offline

Unfortunately you met one of the bad ones. A slave just as a sub are allowed to have limits. I as a DOMINANT have been labled by some as a fake DOMINANT because I respect the limits of slaves. If a "slave" tells me he has a limit that compromises my direction as a DOMINANT, I tell him that it won't work with us and bid him luck on his search for a DOMINANT. Believe it or not DOMINANTS have limits too and if I have a limt that compromises the direction a slave wants to go, I do the same thing with him...bid him adieu and wish him luck. The mental and physical health of a slave or submissive is paramount to being owned and this you should remember and take to heart. If you are compromised mentally or physically when dealing with a DOMINANT, your warning flags should tell you to run quick and hard away from him/her..If you don't take care of YOU, no one else is going to.
Ms Loren

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 26

RE: How do you know? - 5/21/2006 8:59:52 AM

CrappyDom

Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline

When you say you have experience, how much of that is part of a real life group of BDSM people? Or is your experience online and with relationships in isolation?

To me, the "proof" he is looking for is a headgame to get you to do things you don't want to do. As many have said, the guy is an idiot either through ignorance (which is cureable) or malice which isn't.

Have you read "The Bottoming Book"? I wish it was required reading for all who seek WIIWD.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 27

RE: How do you know? - 5/21/2006 9:08:30 AM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: eroticangel
He says it is part of my training before he can decide to own me.

It sounds to me like he has given you the answer you need in his use of words. Do what I say or else I wont let you play with my Monopoly board.

Other posters have commented on this, but the term I would use for this would be "emotional blackmail."

If the person would do this at your first meeting, I would not be surprised if that was his modus operandi in dealing with submissives, or even other people in general.

If this is the relationship you are looking for, I say go for it. From what you describe, it sounds like somebody who missed the lesson about respecting other people which many were taught in preschool.

From my point of view, I want a submissive who completes me by bringing things to the table I need in my life, as I do for her.

Just me, could be wrong, but there you go.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to eroticangel)

Post #: 28

RE: How do you know? - 5/21/2006 9:29:36 AM

xxmstrchasxx

Posts: 423
Joined: 5/9/2006
Status: offline

eroticangel,

Do you know how long this person has been a Dom?

I have been a Dom for over 25 years and I have always respected the subs hard limits. Over time the limits may change for her but whatever they are I still respect them.

If the sub's limits isn't to my liking then I will talk to her about it and if she stick by her limits then we probably won't play at all but I still respect the sub and her limits and wish her well. She just isn't what I was looking for and visa versa. No harm-no foul!

_____________________________

XxMasterChasxX

(in reply to eroticangel)

Post #: 29

RE: How do you know? - 5/21/2006 9:36:51 AM

MsVoyeringmama

Posts: 33
Joined: 10/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

that is not the way I understand it. For one he does not own her, and slaves are allowed limits to protect their health, and IMO scat play is a health issue.

I would ask yourself if you want to be with someone that does not respect your limits? Some like that sort of play, you know, someone that will ignore limits. You have to decide what's right for you.

Personally, I wouldn't trust someone that tried to ignore my limits and then blackmailed me emotionally to get me to do their kink. That, to me, is highly disrepectful of me as a human being.

Another thing is that if this is a big deal for this person, and you can't go there, then you just might not be suited for that person. I can tell you if a dom told me he was really into scat play, I would run anyhow, figuring this would be expected of me sooner or later if we continued in a dynamic. I can't go there either, and your limit is completely understandable to many people. Like I said, scat play can make a person ill, so it is not an unreasonable limit.

I couldn't have said it better..

this can be used as any gender sub/slave- to any gender Dominant:

SLAVE POEM:
A slave is a man/ woman who came to me and brought something that completes myself.
Without a slave I cannot be, since I cannot be the dominant that I am, without a counterpart.
Since I am female/or male, he must be male /or female.
Since I am dominant, he /she must be willing to be shaped into my counterpart.

This is what he /she brought with him / her :

Himself / herself and his / her willingness to be shaped and formed.
Not desire, since desire would be based on his / her former self.
Not readiness, since he /she did not know what to be ready for.

_____________________________

Smile at a stranger,it might make their day, remember the smile you see, could be meant for you. :)
-- And A stranger isn’t a stranger, it’s only a good friend you haven’t met yet!”

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 30

RE: How do you know? - 5/21/2006 9:58:12 AM

champagnewishes

Posts: 1310
Joined: 10/31/2005
From: Orange County
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MHOO314

IMHEO, He isn't a real Dom--a good Dominant respects hard limits--Me thinks he's more "full of shit" than you may realize---dump Him and move on.

I couldn't agree more...

Secondly, I don't have to prove i am a submissive nor more than I would ask anyone to prove they are a Master. The writing is on the wall.

_____________________________

Nirvana cannot be described, it is only understood truly by a person who has experienced it.

(in reply to MHOO314)

Post #: 31

RE: How do you know? - 5/21/2006 11:30:12 AM

dogobedience

Posts: 536
Joined: 3/30/2006
Status: offline

Normal is relative.

YOUR limits as well as others in your position can be EXPANDED, by a experienced one.BUT that takes MENTAL skill sets FEW have.

Now the BAD news, many THINK they are skilled simply because NOBODY has taken the time to to share their thoughts with them and tell them THEY ARE CRAZY. I hear many stories like yours, partly because the girl will never say NO. This gives POSITIVE CORROBERATION, TO AN OTHERWISE NEGITIVE SITUATION. It is like yelling no BUT shaking your head YES, the unskilled will usually believe whatever he wants and continue.

BOTTOMS MUST TAKE A STAND, THAT IS NOT TOPPING FROM THE BOTTOM HOWEVER. HELP TRAIN THE "EXPERIENCED" IDIOTS . INTELLIGENT PEOPLE LEARN FOR LIFE, IDIOTS LEARN ONE TIME AND REPEAT THAT FOREVER.

As a leader in my professional life I constantly get intel, ask questions and seek ideas. Many in this lifestyle are totally ungoverned and those they control THINK they MUST listen....EVEN TO AN IDIOT. It is difficult to learn IF you THINK you are doing well.

_____________________________

I start and/or reply to posts to further my abilities and share my experiences in this fantastic lifestyle.

I hope I am an intellectual instigator, making people think and or laugh and nothing more.

Tiger, proud owner of kali aka Tigerproperty

(in reply to eroticangel)

Post #: 32

RE: How do you know? - 5/21/2006 12:09:05 PM

RiotGirl

Posts: 3149
Status: offline

quote:

i have a general question......How much do you have to prove yourself as a submissive for a Master?...my question arises from this: i am talking to and meeting a new Dom....at our last meeting He wanted to engage in scat play (one of my strong limits) i gagged and moved away, and i was repulsed...and i told sir that...He says it is part of my training before he can decide to own me. I have bben in the lifestyle for 15 years and never heard this, but maybe i haven't talked to as many people as i thought to broaden my horizons...i just wonder...is this normal??

think of it like this.. if he's pushing a hard limit this early.....

whatcha think he's gonna start pushing farther into it?

(in reply to eroticangel)

Post #: 33

RE: How do you know? - 5/21/2006 12:16:59 PM

HoosierScorpio

Posts: 164
Status: offline

Hell No that is not normal for him to use scat as part of training unless you are into it. You must discuss your hard limit before you meet and he must accept to it. If he is not then he is no Master or Dom. If he did not respect some one hard limit he would be labeled unsafe. I did as part of my training with a sub one time doing my dishes for that is one aspect of service I required of her. She wined and complained it to every one that I joked with her that it was her hard limit was doing dishes. I would ask him not to contact you and then block him for who knows what else he will have you do as part of your training if it goes against what you are into. I hope you did discuss your hard limits during the time you guys were talking. I am talking with a girl who told me her new hard limit is being tickled, scat, sharing her self. I will not break her trust by having her brake these hard limits. Key thing to remember when you are talking with some one is to discuss what you and will not do along with soft and hard limits.

(in reply to eroticangel)

Post #: 34

RE: How do you know? - 5/21/2006 12:37:38 PM

mons

Posts: 2400
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline

prunes

that is bull when it comes to eating shit, even a slave has hard limits no she does not have
to eat shit to prove she is a good slave, this has gone to far and i never heard of that test '
come on who said that was ok, i never heard of a dom doing this to a sub or slave to prove what? he
can take a crap that is sickening to me. where did you hear this from scat does not prove a damn thing
to me. i am dominant i would not use that as a training tool lol oh please get real oh i may be tos but come on
she is asking for help your not helping herone bit it is ok to put your views up but you sound like this is something you migt enjoy, this dom is a sicko in my eyes. the thought of it and the smell on someone breathe would make a nornmal person throw up fast i am glad she did turn aways you need someone else dear there are too many doms out there to have one who is into scat to prove your worth sweetie get another/oh yes i hope he plans on kissing her after he does that to her but i know of no one who is kissing anyone who is into scat

mons/jane

(in reply to eroticangel)

Post #: 35

RE: How do you know? - 5/21/2006 12:43:30 PM

eroticangel

Posts: 272
Joined: 2/13/2006
Status: offline

mistoferin,
that is the funny thing...of course i know it and of course i would advise the way all of you have...but this Man seemed to have such potential the first few times we met....and i guess i started to doubt myself...silly isn't it

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 36

RE: How do you know? - 5/21/2006 12:43:51 PM

littlesarbonn

Posts: 1710
Joined: 12/3/2005
From: Stockton, California
Status: offline

What it may simply come down to is that you're not into the same things. If scat is HIS thing, and it's not YOURS, and it's a serious limit for you, chances are pretty good that you're going to have to explore whether or not this is the right person to continue with if this play style is a requirement in his book. Not everyone is compatible with everyone. For some reason, Shania Twain and Jessica Alba don't return my phone calls, even though I'm convinced they're perfect for me. I might one day have to accept I'm not perfect for them.

(in reply to eroticangel)

Post #: 37

RE: How do you know? - 5/21/2006 1:07:25 PM

Vancouver_cinful

Posts: 1911
Joined: 2/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mons

prunes

that is bull when it comes to eating shit, even a slave has hard limits no she does not have
to eat shit to prove she is a good slave, this has gone to far and i never heard of that test '
come on who said that was ok, i never heard of a dom doing this to a sub or slave to prove what? he
can take a crap that is sickening to me. where did you hear this from scat does not prove a damn thing
to me. i am dominant i would not use that as a training tool lol oh please get real oh i may be tos but come on
she is asking for help your not helping herone bit it is ok to put your views up but you sound like this is something you migt enjoy, this dom is a sicko in my eyes. the thought of it and the smell on someone breathe would make a nornmal person throw up fast i am glad she did turn aways you need someone else dear there are too many doms out there to have one who is into scat to prove your worth sweetie get another/oh yes i hope he plans on kissing her after he does that to her but i know of no one who is kissing anyone who is into scat

mons/jane

I think you misunderstood the OP and Prunesquallor's reply. No mention of actually eating shit was mentioned.

I don't think Prunesquallor was advocating that you have to engage in scat to be a slave. She was commenting on the fact that, in general, a slave does what they are told. No where in her post does she say that scat is a normal way to decide owndership.

I agree with everyone else here that the OP would probably be wise to look for someone more compatible. Pushing a hard limit before you "decide to own someone" just smacks of emotional blackmail as many others have said.

Sounds as though the guy was either just hoping to trick her into doing something he likes, but can't find willing partners to do, or that he thought it was a good way to to test her on some level. (Not that I would agree with his approach...).

It may be that the OP was not very assertive in stating scat as a limit, possibly because she was relunctant to displease, and he picked up on it and thought he could push it. It's very important that as subs/slaves we aren't wishy-washy as it can be read as "well, perhaps if you make me..."

Without being there we have no way of knowing.

At any rate, I feel for the OP's confusion as she felt everything was going well, between them, and hates to walk away when it seemed so promising, but I hear the incompatibility bells, too.

Cin

_____________________________

Cin

quote:

My Karma Account is huge, but I just can't seem to make a withdrawal!!

http://cinful.wordpress.com

(in reply to mons)

Post #: 38

RE: How do you know? - 5/21/2006 4:39:51 PM

Estring

Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

It sounds like the cart is being put in front of the horse here. You are not even owned, yet you are having your hard limits pushed by this guy? Do you really need to have someone tell you this is wrong?

_____________________________

Boycott Whales!

(in reply to eroticangel)

Post #: 39

RE: How do you know? - 5/21/2006 4:59:10 PM

LadyHugs

Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Dear eroticangel, Ladies and Gentlemen;

Slave or submissive; they have the power to consent or not. They also have the power to bestow on a dominant or not.

A slave/submissive individual who is able to respect themselves, will respect others. However, that respect does not come without a price. The dominant must also earn the respect of the slave and or submissive.

A Master, Dominant or whatever title they identify, does not give immediate and or absolute power based on assumption or as to direct what is not theirs and or within the boundries/limits (to include scat), to jump through hoops to prove submission. Submission is not a test. It is a state of being, sense of self, spiritual nature.

With this particular dominant dear lass, I would first ask him to please submit to this "scat play" first--as to demonstrate what he wants you to do.
And, you'll certainly want samples as to send to a chemist as to count bacteria, worms or what other issues that infest his mind and has traveled properly out his lower chamber door.

Respectfully submitted,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to eroticangel)

Post #: 40

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