RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy

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tj444 -> RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy (8/13/2011 8:06:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: barelynangel LaTigresse You mentioned what i mean -- most people even if they got everything political against the "rich" they wanted, would still be bitching because they will never be able to achieve what the "rich" they covett have. So they will always bitch about the rich because they want what they have and know they cannot get it so they want it given to them. But as with lottery winners -- even when people get it, they have no clue how to keep it. THIS is what divides those who are rich and those who aren't. It's not the amount of money had -- its they know how to maintain it or make it. The average joe doesn't and never will. I always said if i win the lotto, i would have my momma deal with the money because they know how to deal with their money and that has allowed them a upper middle class lifestyle (though she would want me to split with my brother [:'(]) All in all, i know if i handled it it would be gone within 5 years... angel they also have no clue how to make money, when someone rich happens to lose it all, knowing how to make money means invariably they end up with it back and they are rich again, usually very quickly..

LaTigresse -> RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy (8/13/2011 8:28:13 AM)
Agreed. And that knowing, while it can be benefited by a college education, that is certainly not a requirement. There are a lot of things a lot more important. If a college education was all that was needed, Iowa City Iowa would be a hot bed of multi-millionaires. Yet a lack of education is often an excuse for why a person cannot achieve. Hard word and sacrifice is, and always will be, the key to creating personal wealth. Most people just do not want to admit it because they prefer the dream of immediate gratification and settle for whatever their credit cards can get them then bitch at the consequences. The same shit that created the housing bubble and crash of a few years ago.

tj444 -> RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy (8/13/2011 8:53:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse Agreed. And that knowing, while it can be benefited by a college education, that is certainly not a requirement. There are a lot of things a lot more important. If a college education was all that was needed, Iowa City Iowa would be a hot bed of multi-millionaires. Yet a lack of education is often an excuse for why a person cannot achieve. Hard word and sacrifice is, and always will be, the key to creating personal wealth. Most people just do not want to admit it because they prefer the dream of immediate gratification and settle for whatever their credit cards can get them then bitch at the consequences. The same shit that created the housing bubble and crash of a few years ago. I took one year of college and after that I came to the conclusion that education is merely you paying to train yourself to work for someone else. It is not for any other reason, unless you go to a special school on entrepreneurship where you intend to work for yourself. If you want to learn what they teach in college, all you have to do is find out what books they use in those courses and then go buy the darn book, save yourself tens of thousands of dollars! I dunno, unless you go to Harvard (to make the right contacts primarily), i dont put much stock in the piece of paper you get at the end of it all..

Edwynn -> RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy (8/13/2011 11:00:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: StrangerThan where all the rich and wealthy destroyers of the US will be guillotined, ... If we're attempting anything like accuracy here, that would be wealth destroyers. Unless tens of thousands of lost homes, lost jobs, significant loss of asset values across the board, etc., could be considered otherwise. All of this obtained by financial engineering, which beyond legitimate futures and forward contracts directly between buyer and seller are only for purpose of speculation, which cannot do anything for wealth creation in a macro sense. We have certainly seen the other side of it, though. I have no trouble with the "rich," just the ones who rely on billions of dollars of our tax money as part of the business plan. There are plenty enough rich people who got that way without relying on tax theft, be it from subsidies, tax credits, oil depletion allowances, offshore tax loopholes, bailouts, invasions of other countries, etc.

barelynangel -> RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy (8/13/2011 11:39:22 AM)
quote: I have no trouble with the "rich," just the ones who rely on billions of dollars of our tax money as part of the business plan. There are plenty enough rich people who got that way without relying on tax theft, be it from subsidies, tax credits, oil depletion allowances, offshore tax loopholes, bailouts, invasions of other countries, etc. But its okay for the average joe to rely on same? As long as they aren't rich or considered wealthy. You also realize that these same RICH people who rely on dollars of our tax money are employing a lot of the average joes. I mean it's a trickle down effect.

Edwynn -> RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy (8/13/2011 11:55:47 AM)
Perhaps you missed out on news of the last two years; they are laying off workers by the thousands, not hiring. I said nothing about 'the average Joe,' but since you mentioned, middle class do not receive assistance from the government, only the poor and some few select industries do. Are you OK with giving large sums of your tax money to the highest earning corporation of all time, that annually makes twice the profit of number two? Keep that smile on your face working so much of the year effectively for ExxonMobile, but don't expect everybody else to be so gleeful about it. And mature industries do not do much for job creation anyway, even in good times. But that is where almost all tax dollars (for this purpose) get sent to. And they sure as heck don't need any of MY tax money, just double up on your own contribution if that's how you feel about it, and spare the rest of us.

barelynangel -> RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy (8/13/2011 12:12:49 PM)
So its okay for YOU to think only about you and your tax dollars but damnit the rich better think about you too and your tax dollars and everyone elses. Why is it okay for you to be selfish because your wants are demands on the rich to give you what you want? What have YOU done to create jobs may i ask? Your tax dollars are just as green as mine are. So why don't you make the changes you demand others to do. Or are you just one for bitching instead of doing? Start any businesses lately that will bring about jobs? No? But yet you expect Exxon too?

Edwynn -> RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy (8/13/2011 12:16:14 PM)
Right. My wanting to prevent my money being stolen is, by your estimation, 'being selfish.' I never said anything that could be construed as saying that I 'demand' or 'want something' from 'the rich.' I want the few of them who are stealing my money to desist, simple as that. Not any surprise coming from you that my stated desire for those types to stay as far away from me as possible becomes me 'wanting something from them' in your seriously addled brain. I think you've got all you need here, sweety. Have a nice one.

barelynangel -> RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy (8/13/2011 12:20:33 PM)
Well just out of morbid curiosity -- what have you done to achieve what you are seeking? Politically, personally etc etc. I really don't mind people bitching about the rich if the same people are doing more than bitching. What irritates me is when all people do is bitch but they don't do a damned thing to help themselves or work to right a wrong they see. And no, voting in elections isn't what i am speaking about. Do you hold yourself to the SAME demands you are holding the rich? Are you creating jobs? Are you moving to find ways to bring money and help to people you say are being robbed etc? I don't care if you bitch, but if you aren't doing a damn thing but bitch -- that's when i have issues. See a lot of the rich actually work to change things they don't like. angel angel

Edwynn -> RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy (8/13/2011 12:25:27 PM)
I never bitched about the rich, that is just the way your deficient mental skills read it. I pointed out the ongoing theft of tax money by some people. Here ya go: quote: I have no trouble with the "rich," just the ones who rely on billions of dollars of our tax money as part of the business plan. There are plenty enough rich people who got that way without relying on tax theft, See if you can find somebody to translate it for you, or otherwise keep reading it for however many weeks it takes to sink in.

barelynangel -> RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy (8/13/2011 12:30:20 PM)
And again, what are you doing in lines with what you demand from them or hell even just to expedite your wants? Or are you just into pointing out without action being taken to correct the wrong you say you see? And again, voting isn't what i am speaking about. You seem to have some very strong view points about the rich -- what are you doing to change what you see as wrong. I can guarantee you the rich don't just sit around pointing out things. angel

Edwynn -> RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy (8/13/2011 12:32:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: barelynangel And again, what are you doing in lines with what you demand from them or hell even just to expedite your wants? ... You seem to have some very strong view points about the rich -- ... quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn I have no trouble with the "rich," just the ones who rely on billions of dollars of our tax money as part of the business plan. There are plenty enough rich people who got that way without relying on tax theft, ... I see that you still have not found a reader for you yet.

barelynangel -> RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy (8/13/2011 12:47:33 PM)
Come on Edwynn, put your actions where your bitch is -- what have you done - create any jobs, employed anyone lately, create a business that may eventually create jobs, what have you done to fix this wrong you keep saying is occurring -- theft you say?? My guess is nothing --- you've pointed out hoping someone else will take action. angel

Edwynn -> RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy (8/13/2011 12:50:42 PM)
You first. The detailed nature of my posts (apparently far beyond your capacity, given the infantile responses) indicates that I have in the past and am in the process now of "doing something about it." The nature of your posts indicates that you watch lots of TV, especially of the high drama variety. But please, tell us all about what you are doing for the cause.

MrRodgers -> RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy (8/13/2011 1:13:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: barelynangel LaTigresse You mentioned what i mean -- most people even if they got everything political against the "rich" they wanted, would still be bitching because they will never be able to achieve what the "rich" they covett have. So they will always bitch about the rich because they want what they have and know they cannot get it so they want it given to them. But as with lottery winners -- even when people get it, they have no clue how to keep it. THIS is what divides those who are rich and those who aren't. It's not the amount of money had -- its they know how to maintain it or make it. The average joe doesn't and never will. I always said if i win the lotto, i would have my momma deal with the money because they know how to deal with their money and that has allowed them a upper middle class lifestyle (though she would want me to split with my brother [:'(]) All in all, i know if i handled it it would be gone within 5 years... angel they also have no clue how to make money, when someone rich happens to lose it all, knowing how to make money means invariably they end up with it back and they are rich again, usually very quickly.. Making blanket statements about most anything is not usually the actual case. I do not and never have had a problem with the 'rich.' I as many depend somewhat on the rich for work. It is rare anymore but it is there. The objection about the 'rich' politically is not their station in life, it is the specific policies that favor the rich. For example, there is no reason that once say I make $100,000, I pay 35% federal income tax and a Warren Buffet makes $66 million and pays 17%. Almost all of the unjustifiable 15% capital gains abomination goes to those who make over $300,000. That is a tremendous wealth multiplier. One study estimated that the top rate under Bush of only 3% less than Clinton's last top rate decreased tax revenue some $1.2 trillion over his 8 years. and is now (continued) another $300 billion or up to $1.5 trillion. The business tax cuts were a little more and somewhat due to increased business profits due to the wars and drug companies had a short increase. Totally a revenue reduction (tax cuts) over the last 10 years of some $4 trillion. Since as we know, during Reagan and Bush I, there were no corresponding spending cuts with their tax cuts or increses an in fact under Bush II, higher spending increases and more of the same under Obama...means $14.7 trillion instead of about $10 trillion in debt. So let's lay off all of this about the 'rich.' Let's lay off how posters are envious of the rich or are playing something called class warfare that one could just as easily argue wouldn't even be visible or a term used in debate, if it wasn't for how in fact...the poor are getting poorer, by economy and now by govt.

barelynangel -> RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy (8/13/2011 1:52:57 PM)
Well Edwynn, why should i have to go first -- looking for ideas as to what you can say you have done? i don't have issues with the rich in fact some of my close friends are are those rich people-- i have issues with the poltics of this country. I tend to vote more republican but i am not a republican. To me, rich people are entitled to look out for themselves as much as i am. I don't think they are robbing anyone -- just as the average person would take what the government is giving them, i dont see the rich as having to be more upstanding than the average joe. Something tells me based on how you post IF you had the money the rich do, you'd be right with them. The fact that you don't, means they somehow shouldn't be doing what they are. I am not party specific because i have frustration but my frustration is more on the not-rich people than it is on the rich people. I think the non-rich are too inactive and simply think stamping their foot and blaming the rich is enough. There are a hell of a lot more non-rich people in this country than there is rich people. IF people took action, and made their voices heard better, they would probably get what they wanted better than just thinking well someone else will do it. THEY ARE but not to get the results non-rich want. grins, did you really think i would not have an answer to your question -- the difference between you and i is you didn't have to ask it 4 times and it NOT be answered: I hired an out of work person to come in and paint for me - i tend to hire out of work people for odd jobs. While it's not much, it helps them. I volunteer at charities - i work with charities for the poor and needy to figure out what is needed in the law so lobbying can be done. I fund raise and work hard to try and make changes. When i don't like laws i put my time and effort into lobbying to change them. I have worked on political campaigns, and i utilized my contacts and such to work against a party i didn't like. I have sat on the board of a major corporation and explained to them exactly what their employees are saying and thinking and effected change on behalf of those employees. I have helped out a business owner for free when he had to lay off workers because his finances until he got back to where he could afford to hire someone again. While i haven't started a business, i have helped people who have with my time, energy, suggestions as well as working to get them the grants and loans they need to succeed. I don't think this is much, but its what i have time for now. I believe in acting to get what you want. angel

MrRodgers -> RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy (8/13/2011 2:20:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse Agreed. And that knowing, while it can be benefited by a college education, that is certainly not a requirement. There are a lot of things a lot more important. If a college education was all that was needed, Iowa City Iowa would be a hot bed of multi-millionaires. Yet a lack of education is often an excuse for why a person cannot achieve. Hard word and sacrifice is, and always will be, the key to creating personal wealth. Most people just do not want to admit it because they prefer the dream of immediate gratification and settle for whatever their credit cards can get them then bitch at the consequences. The same shit that created the housing bubble and crash of a few years ago. Funny how too, most of my native friends from the area who received their degree in a field of agriculture, made a ton of money, even millions in selling their farms...for townhouses. So much for college. Some localities have even created entitlements called TDR...trad-able dev. rights...can you imagine ? Well, doesn't everybody have a 'right' and 'entitled' to put a shopping center on their property ? OK, towns ll'do.

Edwynn -> RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy (8/13/2011 2:33:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: barelynangel i don't have issues with the rich in fact some of my close friends are are those rich people-- i have issues with the poltics of this country. quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn I have no trouble with the "rich," just the ones who rely on billions of dollars of our tax money as part of the business plan. There are plenty enough rich people who got that way without relying on tax theft, be it from subsidies, tax credits, oil depletion allowances, offshore tax loopholes, bailouts, invasions of other countries, etc. Read back and forth across the two quotes, however many hundreds of times it might take for it to sink in. The latter part of the second quote is an elaboration upon the politics you speak of. My 'contribution to society' has been and still is of a family and personal nature, primarily, details of which I would never do the indignity of people in question being put on display as example to little drum bangers on internet forums. Elsewise I will have a degree in ~ 1.5 years and get hired by whoever. That after being on my own and 'contributing to society' for 30 years (including some bit of self-employment, though I didn't hire that many people, sorry), large personal expense and time aside from work in dealing with situations that nobody else in the family was either able to or felt inclined to deal with. I saved the government some money in all that, not sure how much. Kindergarten economics has it that only the rich "create jobs," and aside from the fact that some few sectors of industry (especially finance) have in fact been great destroyers of jobs, and the entire economy while at it, further understanding of economics informs that almost anybody who has a job is a contributor to the economy, which under somewhat normal conditions, creates opportunity for even more employment. My current studies are geared towards explaining all this to people that can actually understand it, and who would rely upon the research that I would be involved in providing information that would guide investment decisions. That's how much I hate rich people. If my explanations here still fall short of educating you on anything, please understand that the universities have not the funds to spare to train me and others in this task of trying to convey even the minimal understanding to those too busy throwing buggers and otherwise lacking the capacity to comprehend it in any event. Even if there were such a degree, the pay upon graduation would be below minimum wage. For good reason.

vincentML -> RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy (8/13/2011 4:23:25 PM)
quote: It seems that most here are in favour of some kind of wealth distribution system that will aim to redress the gross inequalities of wealth in our societies. I wish to suggest there is a major flaw in this discussion about the redistribution vs isolation of wealth, and it is the result of opposing ideologies blinding the debators to reality. You are all looking narrowly within our closed society and assuming that wealth has not been redistributed. In fact for the past several decades there has been a massive redistribution of wealth away from the older Capitalist societies to the newer market economies in the emerging BRIC nations. This as a result of inequitable currency exchange rates between emerging and older nations, leading to the exploitation of cheap labor abroad and suggesting an exogenous cause for why in the West the rich are getting richer, the poor are getting poorer, and the middle class is vanishing. I think the issue is about international trade agreements and the limited effectiveness of the WTO as a Court. All this debate about free markets on the Right and social justice on the Left is just a bunch of political blather and will not solve the problem. With apologies to Indigenous Peoples, the indians are attacking the fort and we are arguing about how to dish out the stew in the dining hall. Open to any comments on point.

lockedaway -> RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy (8/13/2011 4:48:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: erieangel A great difference there Locked, is that the people you happen to site in your rant against income equality didn't start off as wealthy--Many second and third generation wealthy are selfish and/or out of touch with what the majority of the country faces on a daily basis. And many of the people (unlike Gates), but like you who have gotten comfortable if not outright wealthy in recent times, believe that everybody can do it. Not everybody can. Some people happen to have developmental disabilities, run into a bit of bad luck or face a myrid of other roadblocks to wealth. They are not nonstarters. For myself, I wouldn't want to be rich if it turned me into a bitter, selfish, self-righteous creep as you appear to be. Yes. Every point you made is valid erieangel. Another issue is this: In the race to wealth only a few can be winners. The amount of wealth going around is finite, and for every 'winner' there are heaps of 'losers'. It is simply impossible for everyone to be wealthy. It is impossible for most people to be wealthy. Wealth is the privilege of the few. However being allowed to retain that wealth is the prerogative of the many. Those who like lockedaway pour scorn and abuse on those less affluent than themselves would do well to remember this. If the rich wish to retain their wealth, they would be well advised to ensure that the masses of people less well off have a comfortable standard of living. It's prudent from the point of view of the wealthy. lockedaway is a prime example of rampant greed blinding sensible prudence. If you wish to find out what happens when the rich ignore this prudential policy, take a look at current events in the UK. Only an idiot loser like Tweak would think that wealth is finite. Only an absolute and total failure of a human being. Two guys work the same job for the same pay. One of the guys goes out and also bartends at night and makes good money doing it. He is wealthier than the other guy. Right? CAN ALL OF YOU MORON STUPID LOSER LIBERALS ACCEPT THAT BASIC FACT? That same second guy takes some money and he puts it in a C.D. or in a stock or a bond. Maybe he makes money, maybe he doesn't. He has a much better chance of making money, however, if he studies the way the market works and knows what he is investing in rather than just picking something out of thin air. That same guy parlays his money and parlays his money and he uses his meager wealth to have substantial wealth and then *enormous* wealth. But he would never do that if he was a failure in this thought process like Tweak!!!!! Am I a rich man? No...but I do just fine, thank you. And I do just fine because everyday I do my job and I take advantage of opportunities that come my way. AND LET ME TELL YOU LIBERAL SWINE THIS WITH ALL FUCKING CERTAINTY; OPPORTUNITIES COME MY WAY EVERYDAY IN A MYRIAD OF WAYS. That's right, failure-junkies, every day there is a way to make a buck; a way to do something smarter and not dumber, a way to not just sit on your worthless asses. Evvvvverryyyy Daaaaayyyy. :) "Suck failure freaks!!!" Ok...the first one that can tell me what movie that is a line from (No...not the "Life of Tweak".) gets a dollar. See losers? I have given you an opportunity right there!

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