RE: hypnosis

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hypnotrekkie -> RE: hypnosis (8/24/2011 8:04:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MalcolmNathaniel quote: ORIGINAL: hypnotrekkie quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven What level of experience do you have? I've been doing it for about 2 years now, Ive taken 2 classes on it, and done a ton of research online. Ive hypnotized people both online and in person. How about you? Wait, wait wait. You've hypnotized people online? Pull the other leg, it's got bells on it. I've done a few text trances, but its very hard. Via webcam is what i usually do.

Ninebelowzero -> RE: hypnosis (8/24/2011 1:04:49 PM)
Am I the only one suspecting the OP has visions of creating a stable of Stepford Wives?

BrainCoder -> RE: hypnosis (9/28/2011 5:37:03 AM)
I see lots of ignorance and just silly bashing about hypnotism in this discussion. What many of you seem to fail at is the WHOLE CONCEPT of hypnosis. The trolls calling everybody even considering it idiots are class of their own. The sillys who parrot about "hypnosis can't make you do what you normally would not want to do" are obviously just clueless or have not ever really experienced any real trance. To make it really simple: hypnotic techniques by themselves are nothing else than attention and focus guiding tools. Whatever you are "made to do" or any other therapeutic or fun effects achieved, can be really viewed as just ordinary training and memory association, but wihtout the distraction of analysis or thinking too much. Mainly it's about trust. If you trust your hypnotist, only limitation you really have is your imagination. Or your hypnotists imagination, if yours is better ;) If you LET your hypnotist have say in your subconscious, if you ALLOW your consciousness to step aside/go to sleep, then what follows is basically communication with distinct parts of your subconscious, that may or may not be aware of each-other. It's pretty much down to brain architecture at this point. It's not really about what YOU would or would not do. It's about what some narrowly focused parts of your brain would or would not agree to do. Some parts may scream bloody murder at some things. Others may find same things extreamly exciting and are ready to "hop on" to the experience. It's about hypnotists skill if those parts are found and convinced to go along. Whatever you think you would NORMALLY do .. while trance and different phases of it are naturally occuring phenomena, it's by long not NORMAL. You would rarely acheve such states on your own. If achieved, you would not really be able to make much sense of them, because your NORMAL sense is most of your brain working under the coordiantion of your consciousness. Trance is not really one of those states. Most important part: whatever happens in truly deep trance states AFFECTS YOUR MEMORIES with MUCH greater effect than any normal learning or training would do. It's because distracting parts of your brain are not really participating in the process to add analysis or create other noise. You may TRY to overcome those effects intellectually, but in certain situations, you may find, that even your "internal analysis" will be later affected by those same memories. You may coume up with totally different descisions or find yourselt being convinced of something that you KNOW comes from within "YOU", but that was not there few minutes ago. All this IS NOT fathomable consciously. Consider yourself desciding to do something against your instinct or habbit. I'm sure most of us will be able to do that, but many would simply not WANT to do it. Hypnosis will not "mind-control" you, it is simply very effective toolset for training and creating new emotional attachments much quicker that normal training or learning would allow. Many will deny the "realness" of hypnosis even after experiencing it exactly because of this - they still feel like they are themselves. And they really are. Just altered in some, probably very small, way. In case of denial they are simply unable to find that anything is even different, because from this point, it's always been this way. The rest is still you. You will be in control, just altered you. But let's make one thing clear: while there are some "trainings" you would be able to get rid of or to disassociate on your own. It's very easy to reinforce things to the point where conscious choice has NOTHING todo with what you have become. Not your "normal" boundaries, not your subconscious boundaries - because in the process the whole, the SUM that makes up YOU is constantly changing. What is NORMAL four you, will be constantly changing.. what you care about and find most important will be constantly changing.. Indeed, hypnosis is not for idiots. Not for mentally handycapped.. not for the stupid. It's for people who deserve each others deepest trust. The things you can achieve are pretty much anything you are able to learn, but faster, stronger, more intense, more meaningful, more amazing. There are certainly things you can acheve with regular training via punishments and rewards that will in no way differ from hypnotic training. Except maybe it will take longer. And I understand totally, if some people find such classical approach more appealing. But then there are things no reward or punishment can get you to do.. or it would take years of hard work and literally breaking the person into basic components.. building it back up would probably take about the same time. Hypnosis can be viewed as going around some of the defences without the need for breaking them. Just a distraction. The thought of resisting would just simply not occur to you. And you can be trained and manipulated deeply.. efficiently.. "sneakily".. little by little. Brain is amazing toy.. and probably hugely underappreciated in classical BDSM. While "going through the body" is totally valid approach.. we are smart enough to know other ways by now. Don't be mad about it, if you have lived your whole life not really being aware of it. You can learn too. If you have a brain, then I can promise you that it will be amazing.

crazyml -> RE: hypnosis (9/28/2011 6:09:22 AM)
[Ed to fix typo] meh. Braincoder : I doubt that the people who say that ""hypnosis can't make you do what you normally would not want to do" are clueless and it was a little bit rude of you to say so. In the vast, vast majority of cases, it really is true. Because, precisely as you point out, it rather depends on the skill of the hypnotist, the depth of the trance and a host of other factors, by far the biggest of which is the person's suggestibility. There really are very few hypnotists experienced and competent enough to establish the kind of truly deep trance you refer to. hypnotrekkie : Hypnosis by text is pretty far fetched, unless you've planted a suggestion previously. I think you might need to embrace the possibility that the people you've hypnotised via text or web cam are either fantastically suggestible, able to self induce, or taking the piss. Arpig - Whatever your views, my experience is that the best hypnotists are fantastically intellectually competent. There's even a chance that one or two of them may be more so than either you or I.

BrainCoder -> RE: hypnosis (9/28/2011 6:25:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crazyml .. There really are very few hypnotists experienced and competent enough to establish the kind of truly deep trance you refer to. .. So what you say is.. because competence is rare, we might as well consider the word of some amateurish "tried it once, was meh" types as some sort of expert opinion? For me the most painful part of this topic is the utter denial. I recently convinced a buddy of mine of the "realness" of hypnosis, who has gone on for years about "it's just a fake" and "there's no way you cold make me do this or that".. comes ot, there is a way. Just because you have not figured things out four yourself does not make you "commonplace authority" about something "generally" not working.

crazyml -> RE: hypnosis (9/28/2011 7:07:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BrainCoder quote: ORIGINAL: crazyml .. There really are very few hypnotists experienced and competent enough to establish the kind of truly deep trance you refer to. .. So what you say is.. because competence is rare, we might as well consider the word of some amateurish "tried it once, was meh" types as some sort of expert opinion? Nope I didn't say that, nor did I imply it. You inferred it; wrongly. Firstly where did I say that competence is rare? Nowhere. What I said, and if you don't understand the distinction in this then I'm not able to help you, was that people "competent enough to establish the kind of truly deep trance you refer to" are rare. It's a really important distinction that, now it's been pointed out to you, I just know you'll be good enough to acknowledge. As for the second part, please direct me to the place in my post where I said that people's personal experiences of hypnosis should be regarded as an "expert opinion"? I've looked, and I've looked, and I am quite sure that I said no such thing. quote: For me the most painful part of this topic is the utter denial. I recently convinced a buddy of mine of the "realness" of hypnosis, who has gone on for years about "it's just a fake" and "there's no way you cold make me do this or that".. comes ot, there is a way. Maybe it's the way you explain it? I mean, if you open with "If you think that hypnosis can't make you do what you normally would not want to do are obviously just clueless or have not ever really experienced any real trance. " then don't be surprised if at least some of the people you try and explain things to walk away muttering "cunt". quote: Just because you have not figured things out four yourself does not make you "commonplace authority" about something "generally" not working. I actually have no clue what you intend by this sentence. So I'll just walk away, muttering.

Buzzzz -> RE: hypnosis (9/28/2011 7:19:17 AM)
I do it often.And I also do it only to the persons I am in a relationship with, as I believe that there is a huge amount of trust required (from both parts but more from the "hypnotee" side). Sometimes the results aren't what you expected though (though very funny). for example, I hypnotized my partner and told her that she had to take a pelican sculpture she had on her nightstand 5 minutes after she woke up and bring it to the bathroom. well. When she woke up from the trance she was so tired that she fell asleep.. Then she woke up in the middle of the night and started walking randomly in the room. She then went back to bed and took the pelican statue and hsaid " I think this bird wants to give you a kiss" and had the statue kiss me !! I believe that she didn't think the statue belonged in the bathroom and thus didn't bring it there. IF I have said " Right after you wake up, I want you to take that pelican statue and take it to the bathroom , put it on the sink and bring it right back to it's original location", maybe it would have worked better. But I don't know , because I didn't try..... And the original scene was wayyyy cuter anyway :) '

BrainCoder -> RE: hypnosis (9/28/2011 7:24:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crazyml .. So I'll just walk away, muttering. I'm not gonna run after you, but find myself mildly amused about the wordplay you tried to pull.

Dollyboy -> RE: hypnosis (10/9/2011 5:01:19 PM)
I have some hands-on experience, as I am actively studying hypnocoaching, and preparing for a NGH (National Guild of Hypnotists) exam... And well, I'll be completely frank here. Lots of hypnotists like to weave magical tales around their craft, as if it was illusionism, and the magic needed to be kept up. Hypnosis is NOT magic. It's psychology. Now I'll be the bad magician who tells the secret behind the trick. The trick they do on stage shows with suspending someone by their neck and heels is nothing special, you can do it if you have the guts. It's called planking and students are doing it all around the globe. If you aren't athetic at all, I'll give you the easy route. Lay down on your back, and then lift yourself up by flexing your muscles. You'll be suspended by your skull and your heels. Congrats. There are several mechanisms behind the SOCIAL phenomenon that we call hypnotism. I'll go through some of them. Mechanism #1: Social agreement and group pressure. You know how a person should act under hypnosis. To do otherwise would be breaking a social deal. It's like as if you sat in a restaurant, and then when the waiter comes to ask what to bring you, you stood up and left. Not something you normally do. Mechanism #2: Dissociation of responsibility. In hypnosis, the hypnotist constantly reinforces the fact that he or she is in control, and is giving commands. The social perception of hypnosis stresses this as well. Not being responsible for one's actions can lead to crazy stuff, just google the Milgram Experiment. For example, lots of people love to show themselves off and make fools of themselves. They just need an EXCUSE to do so. Like getting drunk, getting high, or well, getting hypnotized and ordered to act like chickens. It's not like the MUST act like chickens, they are actually releived that they can act like total idiots and yet avoid being branded as idiots. Mechanism #3: Intensive rapport and communication. In hypnosis, a very powerful rapport is built up between two people. AFAIK, this effect is mostly based on the "hardware implementation" of social skills in our head. You can experience these hardwired responses by noticing that when people smile at you, you are likely to smile back... Or when someone yawns or sneezes, you may get the urge to do the same. This is the reason that most aspies think they cannot be hypnotized - they can be, but this effect is a lot weaker on them. This allows for wonderful stuff. Like in hypnosis, you can VERY EASILY make someone fall in love with you. It's not enough by far to "fuck someone up", but totally enough for bitter heartbreaks... Mechanism #4: Shifting of attention. Hypnosis uses the shifting of attention a lot. Well, at least it should. Most hypnotists don't know shit about how to properly use it, and still manage with the above three quite well. By directing someone's attention, clinical hypnotists can actually use hypnosis as a way of anesthetizing patients for operations. This is powerful stuff, and as BrainCoder said, it can be used to find areas in someone's personality that are accepting of an idea, and exclusively give it control. You can make people do things this way that they will genuinely regret afterwards. But hey, it's not different at all from what most men experience when they are horny. Ever got that guilty feeling after having an orgasm, that you have done things for sex that are TOTALLY out of your normal conduct? Well this is pretty much the effect we are talking about. Still not enough to "fuck someone up" - or well, that depends on what you mean by "fucked up". Enough to make a closet homosexual become a total gayboy, and maybe later regret it bitterly. Enough to make a shy girl become a submissive painslut, and be totally disillusioned and burned out in a year, not wanting to ever hear about bdsm, ever again. Totally not enough to destroy lives. Mechanism #X: The biggest one of them all. The Other Human Being. Strange, inexplicable and scary things can happen in hypnosis. People may "not come back" easily, stick with suggestions for a long time as if they were etched into their souls, change their personalities, go crazy, whatever. IT'S NOT HYPNOSIS that did this to them. It's their own mind. You didn't push them over the edge. In hypnosis, they saw a good opportunity and JUMPED. They have been totally fucking batshit MAD all along, just held some semblance of a social personality to fit in. This is an extremely small minority, but still, this is why you must be ABSOLUTELY on top of your game before doing hypnosis. The crazy guy/girl may actually go batshit on you, and while we all know it's not hypnosis that did this, a federal judge may see it otherwise. And if you're not a psychiatrist, you simply NEVER hypnotize anyone with a known or suspected mental disorder.

xxblushesxx -> RE: hypnosis (10/9/2011 5:34:56 PM)
Most of my calls these days involve hypnotism. I have been studying NLP techniques and different types of trancing ideas.

BrainCoder -> RE: hypnosis (10/10/2011 4:39:54 AM)
Thanks for the warning, DollyBoy! ;) As it happens, just yesterday I struck "crazy waiting to happen" in my explorations. So one additional warning to add to your story - amateurs should avoid people on any sorts of depression medication, anxiety medication.. and probably any sort of brain chemistry altering medication. My observation is, that depression and anxiety pills somehow disconnect people from their dreams - many people simply stop dreaming. In this particular case, it did not disconnect the dreams, but helped some young silly dreamer-self to gain independence, so while the main personality went snooze, the repressed side suddenly found herself in control. 100 years ago, and still in some parts of the world, that would have been labeled as possessed by the demon, because that little bitch was mean ;) And poured all her frustration out on me. Anyway, all is well and reading back the log, subject actually gained some insight into the things she is trying to avoid by munching the pills. I have talked people down from such medication before.. Processing stuff away instead of disconnecting/ignoring the consequences works much better as long-term solution.

DesFIP -> RE: hypnosis (10/10/2011 6:47:41 AM)
I have been hypnotized in the past. At no time did I not know what was going on. At no time was I incapable of being revolted by a suggestion and ending the session. The erroneous belief that you can do things to a person that they would never agree to in their right mind is just that, flat wrong. With that said, it doesn't appeal to me for wiitwd.

BrainCoder -> RE: hypnosis (10/10/2011 7:14:23 AM)
quote: At no time did I not know what was going on. At no time was I incapable of being revolted by a suggestion and ending the session. I must sadly inform you, that even if you believed you were hypnotized, you weren't hypnotized "very much". There are countless states hypnotic techniques could be used to shift your mind in and out of and yours was just one pretty close to your usual state. I agree with you, that for some reason you chose not to let it be any more serious. Or maybe your hypnotist didn't even try to get you very "deep".. But that does not really mean anything more than that - you simply decided NOT to give up much of your "control". That's the funny part - you are in control until the point where you are convinced that you are not. You can be convinced to give it up. Some people just want to let go, some people are convinced they are out of control because hypnotists literally tell them that now they are in control.. Also the fact that you still FEEL in control may be cozy illusion for your consciousness. Many people come out of hypnosis convinced, that of course they CHOSE to do all those things, why else would they have done them!?! It's just a way to make sense of the things. It does not really explain what happened. It's just only valid-sounding explanation they can come up with. In short - don't rush into conclusions about the whole phenomena just because it seemed like you experienced it once a little and now you think you know exactly what it is.. There's a good chance it's a bit bigger than that.

SailingBum -> RE: hypnosis (10/10/2011 1:19:04 PM)
Uh now to ask a really dumb question.... If being hypnotized works so well how come everyone I've talked to over the years either A can't seemed to be hypnotized according to the hypnotists <they claimed it was some sort of personality trait of course after they took your $200>. B. It doesn't work to stop smoking. What a racket! BadOne

crazyml -> RE: hypnosis (10/10/2011 1:25:23 PM)
In fairness I know a couple of people for whom it worked a treat. It could be that the people you mention had never come up against obi wan kenobi...

Icarys -> RE: hypnosis (10/10/2011 1:28:38 PM)
quote: To the OP: Sorry, no, I'm not into hypnosis. That peek-a-boo nipple is hypnotizing.

Kaliko -> RE: hypnosis (10/10/2011 1:30:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SailingBum Uh now to ask a really dumb question.... If being hypnotized works so well how come everyone I've talked to over the years either A can't seemed to be hypnotized according to the hypnotists <they claimed it was some sort of personality trait of course after they took your $200>. B. It doesn't work to stop smoking. What a racket! BadOne I've been hypnotized- professionally. (And not quite so professionally.) I'll speak to the professional to say - yes, it works. It's not a matter of waking up out of a trance to find yourself in a different place than before, or acting in a manner in which you normally wouldn't, but about experiencing things in a different state of mind and more easily accepting suggestion to modify behavior. They (the hospital - my insurance even paid for it :) did some sort of assessment to determine if I was even suitable for the hypnotherapy I went through and turns out I am quite easily hypnotized. Maybe some are and maybe some aren't. And maybe it's a matter of, if you don't believe it will work, then it won't.

SailingBum -> RE: hypnosis (10/10/2011 2:28:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kaliko quote: ORIGINAL: SailingBum Uh now to ask a really dumb question.... If being hypnotized works so well how come everyone I've talked to over the years either A can't seemed to be hypnotized according to the hypnotists <they claimed it was some sort of personality trait of course after they took your $200>. B. It doesn't work to stop smoking. What a racket! BadOne I've been hypnotized- professionally. (And not quite so professionally.) I'll speak to the professional to say - yes, it works. It's not a matter of waking up out of a trance to find yourself in a different place than before, or acting in a manner in which you normally wouldn't, but about experiencing things in a different state of mind and more easily accepting suggestion to modify behavior. They (the hospital - my insurance even paid for it :) did some sort of assessment to determine if I was even suitable for the hypnotherapy I went through and turns out I am quite easily hypnotized. Maybe some are and maybe some aren't. And maybe it's a matter of, if you don't believe it will work, then it won't. Perhaps I wasn't clear. My reply was two part the second part was yes they went under but it didnt "cure" the underlying issue in this case not smoking. Bottom line is either way it didn't work. So now i'm curious what were you put under for? And did it work? Drop me a C male if you like. BadOne

DesFIP -> RE: hypnosis (10/10/2011 3:04:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BrainCoder . My observation is, that depression and anxiety pills somehow disconnect people from their dreams - many people simply stop dreaming. In this particular case, it did not disconnect the dreams, but helped some young silly dreamer-self to gain independence, so while the main personality went snooze, the repressed side suddenly found herself in control. 100 years ago, and still in some parts of the world, that would have been labeled as possessed by the demon, because that little bitch was mean ;) And poured all her frustration out on me. Anyway, all is well and reading back the log, subject actually gained some insight into the things she is trying to avoid by munching the pills. I have talked people down from such medication before.. Processing stuff away instead of disconnecting/ignoring the consequences works much better as long-term solution. Your belief that people on brain chemistry medications are doing so by trying to avoid something is about 50 years out of date. MRIs of suicides show definite changes in the brain. This isn't about avoiding dealing with an issue, but about having a disease in part of your body, in this case in the brain. By having zero knowledge of genetic mood disorders or any advances in neurobiology you have shown yourself to be someone not worth paying any attention to. I didn't stop dreaming when on SSRIs. I stopped wanting to kill myself. I'm fourth generation mood disorder. My family tree has nothing to do with not dreaming, but everything to do with having problems with our brain chemistry.

BrainCoder -> RE: hypnosis (10/10/2011 3:27:50 PM)
quote: I stopped wanting to kill myself. See how bad drugs are? Fourth generation of misery.. that's pretty awful for a medical achievement. Next thing you tell me that they fertilize eggs artificially and help people, who would be otherwise nearly incompatible and unable to procreate, to have babies. That would be like.. crazy. Edit: Also I see that we are doing some mighty wide generalizations based on personal experiences here. I specifically told you about my observation, not about achievements of medical science. Drug companies don't run 10 year trials because it's the latest craze. They do it because drugs have all kinds of unpredictable side-effects on different people. Let's try to keep focus: I have actually met people who don't dream on anxiety medication. Quick google search reveals, that side-effects vary from no dreams to crazy fucking nightmares. I agree I don't have very large sample to do generalizations, which is pretty much your only angle here. My new observation is, that people on "don't kill yourself" medication tend to be unreasonably aggressive about their shit. Chill chemical boy.

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