NuevaVida
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Joined: 8/5/2008
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Eek, gone overnight and a gazillion more pages on this thread. I'm going to reply to this before reading through the rest of the pages....hopefully it will still fit with the flow of the thread.
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ORIGINAL: barelynangel
NuevaVida, you and ChatteParfaitt have good points and i think hit more on what creates or loses my respect. Actions and respect. And NuevaVida you mentioned earlier that you lost respect because you watched what he was doing to himself but you also mentioned your own loss of respect for yourself and how it was a symptom.
One thing to note, however, is I didn't have respect for myself when I entered the relationship. There was no self respect to lose as a result of him. It was already non existent.
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Just like i won't get involved with an active alcoholic -- one who was in control maybe but sobriety would have had to be for decades -- i have trouble with Men who want to be my Master being fat/obese and out of shape. If he doesn't take care of himself and hold himself to higher standards, how can i hold him to those standards and follow him when he doesn't reach same.
Which is your prerogative, of course. We all have measuring sticks which help guide us. Yours includes leaders/masters with weight issues. Others do not.
I think what happens (and this is pure speculation, mind you) is someone starts posting about how masters with weight issues can't be good masters, and then of course the slaves whose masters are overweight feel offended or protective or put off by that. Totally understandable. If you were owned by someone who had the one trait that others thought negated his ability to master, yet that trait had no bearing on you or how you felt mastered by him, you might also have a reaction to people saying someone like that couldn't possibly be a good master. I think it's just human nature when someone criticizes a trait that someone you love has.
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I've dated overweight men, i've dated skinny men, i've had sex with both... but Masters -- no, i have a higher expectation for them and obesity is not a concept i can reconcile with a Man being a Master of me. NeuvaVida, i think its sorta the concept of what you spoke about -- weight is usually a symptom of a much bigger problem and i would have a hard time maintaining respect for a Man who was knowingly harming himself by not controling how he ate etc,
Again, we all have our measuring sticks. I'd have to get to know the person before making that determination (of whether or not there's a bigger problem, what that problem might be (if any), and what he's doing about it (if anything). I look at the Mister - he lost 20 pounds, not really by trying, just be supporting me in what I was eating. He could probably lose another 15 or so, but if he does he does, if he doesn't, he doesn't. It's not an issue for either of us. He enjoys food, he's healthy, and I am continually impressed by the way he handles his life. I was impressed when he was 30 pounds overweight, too - his weight was never a problem. I see where he's come from and what he did with it, and I find it remarkable.
Yet, I understand someone might look at him and say, "Nope, not for me" right off the bat. We all have our choices to make. He could have easily said the same about me when he met me, 60 pounds ago. Given the types of women he's been involved with prior to me, it surprises me that he didn't. But he chose to get to know me, and fell in love with the person I am, and saw how I was conducting my life and my weight loss. In other words, we looked at the bigger picture with each other.
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Maybe i am guilty of assuming that obese men who look to be masters of others (which is what i call fat) are not in control of their activity levels and/or eating ways but it's been proven if people control both they do lose weight -- then of course the trick is making the lifestyle changes to maintain same.
Maybe you are - but again, that's your choice. Where I think your words may incite issues with others is that you're speaking in generalities of all obese men who are looking to master, and not specifying that you're speaking in relation to them mastering *you*. Without that qualifier, it looks like you're telling everyone whose masters are overweight that their masters are unqualified.
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But let me put it this way, i have never met an obese person who wasn't able to lose weight (sometimes it was very slow and hard and struggling process) when they were in control of their diet and activity level and made it a priority of change and determination to do things differently for life -- not just a few months or until they lose the weight.
Keep in mind, though, not everyone knows *how* to lose weight. People think they're educating themselves, think they're doing everything right, but the weight doesn't come off. A friend of mine, at around 200 pounds at the time, was working out vigorously 4 times a week, scaled back her food big time, yet the weight never came off, and her doctor told her this must just be her healthy weight. Then she joined weight watchers, learned how really to lose weight, and 36 pounds later, is digging her new body. Inability to lose weight does not mean lack of control; sometimes it's just not finding the right tools that work just yet.
Let's look at your premises this way - What would you think of a potential master who refused to take on a slave who was overweight, thinking if she hasn't lost weight on her own, she's just not strong enough and doesn't have enough self control to be his slave.
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Respect is huge with me in an M/s relationship, i tend to follow my Master because i trust him to do what is right. That means if he is focused on fitness and body for myself then he should be for himself -- maybe not the same way but it still should be a determination for himself in which he sets standards and expectations for himself and be in control of same.
Would you agree, though, that your master may at times not be right on certain issues? Surely you do not expect omniscience, correct? What if there were another area he was deficient on, and instead required you to to the research and implement?
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Otherwise, i would lose respect for his lack of respect in himself.
This is where you're assuming overweight = lack of self respect. While that is sometimes the case, it is sometimes not, as I've explained above. You can assume this, of course, but I think you do so with blinders on. I'm not faulting you for that, we all have choices that we make and live by. I would find your way of thinking to be limiting for myself. I see where you're coming from, I just don't agree with it.
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Thanks for the comments, it could be i am looking at the whole picture when it could be little things that create the whole picture what causes me the issues i have with the whole.
angel
I think you might be looking at the little things and forming a "whole picture" in your mind that may or may not actually exist. None-the-less, I appreciate the dialogue. I love civil dialogue on touchy topics 
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RE: Fat People - 
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i think i will look into building my own inversion table and see if i can stretch myself out.. umm,.. I mean stretch myself UP again.. 
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