RE: A Question To All Of The Candidates Please..... (Full Version)

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Sanity -> RE: A Question To All Of The Candidates Please..... (8/15/2011 3:50:13 AM)


Thanks for admitting that, joe - didnt think you had it in you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

Who creates the Budget? The US House of Representatives. Who sent 14 budget bills to the US Senate fulling knowing not one of them would pass? The US House of Representatives. Who wasted America's time, energy, taxpayer moneys and such, pushing those bills to a vote, knowing the bill is "DOA" once sent to the US Senate? The US House of Representatives. And who controls the US House of Representatives?

The Republican Party, subrob.

Many of them signed a 'no taxes' to one, Mr. Grover Norquist. Basically, it would be like you and I playing a game of 'Texas Hold 'em" with one basic change: Your two cards that you get, have to be played face up, but mine can be hidden. I already know what you have and know you have no wiggle room to bullshit. That is metaphorically the position the Republicans in the US House of Representatives have been in all these months.

An they can't even take ownership of their failures. Would you take someone serious that had HUGE problems taking ownership of their failures and problems?




MrRodgers -> RE: A Question To All Of The Candidates Please..... (8/15/2011 4:01:57 AM)

The Downgrade Trifecta: S&P Slams Third GOP Debt Stance For Jeopardizing U.S. Credit

ThinkProgress.com:

S&P, however, takes the exact opposite view. In fact, the credit agency cited almost every stance the GOP took during the debt ceiling debacle as a reason for the downgrade.

– Tax Increases: During debt negotiations, Republicans obstinately refused to even consider tax increases as part of the deal. On the day S&P announced the downgrade, the agency repeatedly slammed “the majority of Republicans in Congress” for continuing “to resist any measure that would raise revenues,” which, it complained, seems to be a priority that has “dropped down on the menu of policy options.” ” Contrary to GOP delusion, S&P indicated that it would improve the U.S.’s credit rating if “the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts for high earners lapse from 2013 onwards, as the Administration is advocating.”

– Balanced Budget Amendment: Though considered one of “the worst ideas in Washington,” Republicans are continuing their efforts to pass a balanced budget constitutional amendment (BBA) and even suggested that the downgrade would not have happened, or would be reversed, if a BBA were passed. "S&P head John Chambers, however, publicly denounced the idea and indicated that a BBA would hurt, not help, the U.S’s creditworthiness. “We think that fiscal rules like these just diminish the flexibility of the government to respond,” he said, adding that S&P would question a BBA’s “credibility.”

– Default Denial: Despite a deluge of warnings from numerous economists and experts, several Republican “default deniers” simply did not believe that failing to raise the debt ceiling would result in negative economic consequences. “The case has not been made that this is an absolute necessity,” said Rep. Bill Huizenga (R-MI). “I don’t think it’s going to have an adverse on the economy” or “be disruptive to the economy per se,” said now-supercommittee member Sen. Pat Toomey (R-PA). Yesterday, S&P senior director Joydeep Mukherji noted that this level of skepticism about “the serious consequences of a credit default” was yet another reason for the downgrade. “That a country even has such voices, albeit a minority, is something notable,” he said. “This kind of rhetoric is not common amongst AAA sovereigns.”




Sanity -> RE: A Question To All Of The Candidates Please..... (8/15/2011 4:04:30 AM)


You are a joke, quoting thinkprogress as if its a legitimate analysis

Theyre so hyper partisan and full of shit, just like you are

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

The Downgrade Trifecta: S&P Slams Third GOP Debt Stance For Jeopardizing U.S. Credit

ThinkProgress.com:

S&P, however, takes the exact opposite view. In fact, the credit agency cited almost every stance the GOP took during the debt ceiling debacle as a reason for the downgrade.

– Tax Increases: During debt negotiations, Republicans obstinately refused to even consider tax increases as part of the deal. On the day S&P announced the downgrade, the agency repeatedly slammed “the majority of Republicans in Congress” for continuing “to resist any measure that would raise revenues,” which, it complained, seems to be a priority that has “dropped down on the menu of policy options.” ” Contrary to GOP delusion, S&P indicated that it would improve the U.S.’s credit rating if “the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts for high earners lapse from 2013 onwards, as the Administration is advocating.”

– Balanced Budget Amendment: Though considered one of “the worst ideas in Washington,” Republicans are continuing their efforts to pass a balanced budget constitutional amendment (BBA) and even suggested that the downgrade would not have happened, or would be reversed, if a BBA were passed. "S&P head John Chambers, however, publicly denounced the idea and indicated that a BBA would hurt, not help, the U.S’s creditworthiness. “We think that fiscal rules like these just diminish the flexibility of the government to respond,” he said, adding that S&P would question a BBA’s “credibility.”

– Default Denial: Despite a deluge of warnings from numerous economists and experts, several Republican “default deniers” simply did not believe that failing to raise the debt ceiling would result in negative economic consequences. “The case has not been made that this is an absolute necessity,” said Rep. Bill Huizenga (R-MI). “I don’t think it’s going to have an adverse on the economy” or “be disruptive to the economy per se,” said now-supercommittee member Sen. Pat Toomey (R-PA). Yesterday, S&P senior director Joydeep Mukherji noted that this level of skepticism about “the serious consequences of a credit default” was yet another reason for the downgrade. “That a country even has such voices, albeit a minority, is something notable,” he said. “This kind of rhetoric is not common amongst AAA sovereigns.”




MrRodgers -> RE: A Question To All Of The Candidates Please..... (8/15/2011 4:08:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Thanks for admitting that, joe - didnt think you had it in you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

Who creates the Budget? The US House of Representatives. Who sent 14 budget bills to the US Senate fulling knowing not one of them would pass? The US House of Representatives. Who wasted America's time, energy, taxpayer moneys and such, pushing those bills to a vote, knowing the bill is "DOA" once sent to the US Senate? The US House of Representatives. And who controls the US House of Representatives?

The Republican Party, subrob.

Many of them signed a 'no taxes' to one, Mr. Grover Norquist. Basically, it would be like you and I playing a game of 'Texas Hold 'em" with one basic change: Your two cards that you get, have to be played face up, but mine can be hidden. I already know what you have and know you have no wiggle room to bullshit. That is metaphorically the position the Republicans in the US House of Representatives have been in all these months.

An they can't even take ownership of their failures. Would you take someone serious that had HUGE problems taking ownership of their failures and problems?


What's the big deal ? 100's of bills have gone to many different senates' over the years and declared DOA...so the fuck what ? Get over it and compromise. No !! was the answer.




Lucylastic -> RE: A Question To All Of The Candidates Please..... (8/15/2011 4:10:17 AM)

WOudl you actually care to show where the analysis IS wrong, and what it should be?
or another source with a "non biased" analysis or are you just going to trash think progress & the poster for using it???
An actual rebuttal WITH sources would be kinda fun
can you do that ???




MrRodgers -> RE: A Question To All Of The Candidates Please..... (8/15/2011 4:14:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


You are a joke, quoting thinkprogress as if its a legitimate analysis

Theyre so hyper partisan and full of shit, just like you are

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

The Downgrade Trifecta: S&P Slams Third GOP Debt Stance For Jeopardizing U.S. Credit

ThinkProgress.com:

S&P, however, takes the exact opposite view. In fact, the credit agency cited almost every stance the GOP took during the debt ceiling debacle as a reason for the downgrade.

– Tax Increases: During debt negotiations, Republicans obstinately refused to even consider tax increases as part of the deal. On the day S&P announced the downgrade, the agency repeatedly slammed “the majority of Republicans in Congress” for continuing “to resist any measure that would raise revenues,” which, it complained, seems to be a priority that has “dropped down on the menu of policy options.” ” Contrary to GOP delusion, S&P indicated that it would improve the U.S.’s credit rating if “the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts for high earners lapse from 2013 onwards, as the Administration is advocating.”

– Balanced Budget Amendment: Though considered one of “the worst ideas in Washington,” Republicans are continuing their efforts to pass a balanced budget constitutional amendment (BBA) and even suggested that the downgrade would not have happened, or would be reversed, if a BBA were passed. "S&P head John Chambers, however, publicly denounced the idea and indicated that a BBA would hurt, not help, the U.S’s creditworthiness. “We think that fiscal rules like these just diminish the flexibility of the government to respond,” he said, adding that S&P would question a BBA’s “credibility.”

– Default Denial: Despite a deluge of warnings from numerous economists and experts, several Republican “default deniers” simply did not believe that failing to raise the debt ceiling would result in negative economic consequences. “The case has not been made that this is an absolute necessity,” said Rep. Bill Huizenga (R-MI). “I don’t think it’s going to have an adverse on the economy” or “be disruptive to the economy per se,” said now-supercommittee member Sen. Pat Toomey (R-PA). Yesterday, S&P senior director Joydeep Mukherji noted that this level of skepticism about “the serious consequences of a credit default” was yet another reason for the downgrade. “That a country even has such voices, albeit a minority, is something notable,” he said. “This kind of rhetoric is not common amongst AAA sovereigns.”


Once again you either go after the messenger whether the web site or the speakers. Can't argue the post...there isn't any.

These are S & P principal's quotes and actual republican quotes. Kind of hard to take, I can see but the facts are, the market can't trust the repubs now...they are the risk.




StrangerThan -> RE: A Question To All Of The Candidates Please..... (8/15/2011 4:17:31 AM)

quote:

“I don’t think it’s going to have an adverse on the economy” or “be disruptive to the economy per se,” said now-supercommittee member Sen. Pat Toomey (R-PA). Yesterday, S&P senior director Joydeep Mukherji noted that this level of skepticism about “the serious consequences of a credit default” was yet another reason for the downgrade. “That a country even has such voices, albeit a minority, is something notable,” he said. “This kind of rhetoric is not common amongst AAA sovereigns.



I will absolutely agree with that statement. I'll bet bankers and politicians who have sucked off the public dick most of their lives were about to shit their pants.

All without knowing they're a big part of the problem in the first place.




outhere69 -> RE: A Question To All Of The Candidates Please..... (8/15/2011 9:52:33 AM)

The whole debt ceiling debate pissed me off since Republicans continually conflated the limit with the deficit.  The debt limit applies to expenditures that were already approved.  It's like you suddenly saying "Well, I know I said I'd pay for the mortgage, car, and that emergency HVAC replacement, but tough cookies.  I won't make the mortgage payment."

That's a default.  Doesn't matter if you only defaulted on one of them, you defaulted.  Try it and see what happens to your credit scores.




Owner59 -> RE: A Question To All Of The Candidates Please..... (8/15/2011 10:09:24 AM)

Normal folks,the middle of the road a-political voters/tax-payers are starting to see who fucked up here and aren`t going to put up with more manufactured/didn`t have to happen "crisises".

We just can`t afford to indulge children playing with loaded guns,we don`t have that luxury.Look at what has already happened.





willbeurdaddy -> RE: A Question To All Of The Candidates Please..... (8/15/2011 12:51:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
One more time. NOT ONE FUCKING CANDIDATE THREATENED DEFAULT.


An what would have happen if they did, willbeurdaddy? Would you hold them accountable for their words and actions? (yes, that's two seperate questions)


Obviously




willbeurdaddy -> RE: A Question To All Of The Candidates Please..... (8/15/2011 12:52:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

If the Republicans didn't want to increase the Debt Limit, why did they pass all the spending bills which required it to be raised in the first place?



They didnt.




DomKen -> RE: A Question To All Of The Candidates Please..... (8/15/2011 1:52:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

If the Republicans didn't want to increase the Debt Limit, why did they pass all the spending bills which required it to be raised in the first place?



They didnt.

They most certainly did.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_United_States_federal_budget




tazzygirl -> RE: A Question To All Of The Candidates Please..... (8/15/2011 2:10:35 PM)

“I want to state unequivocally for the world, as well as for the markets, as well as for the American people: I have no doubt that we will not lose the full faith and credit of the United States,” Bachmann said Thursday. “I have no doubt that there will be a final resolve.”

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0711/60172.html

Full faith and credit.  0 out of 2.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: A Question To All Of The Candidates Please..... (8/15/2011 2:29:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

If the Republicans didn't want to increase the Debt Limit, why did they pass all the spending bills which required it to be raised in the first place?



They didnt.

They most certainly did.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_United_States_federal_budget


From your link:

" However, a deal containing $38.5 billion in cuts from 2010 funding levels was reached with just hours remaining before the deadline"




DomKen -> RE: A Question To All Of The Candidates Please..... (8/15/2011 2:31:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

If the Republicans didn't want to increase the Debt Limit, why did they pass all the spending bills which required it to be raised in the first place?



They didnt.

They most certainly did.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_United_States_federal_budget


From your link:

" However, a deal containing $38.5 billion in cuts from 2010 funding levels was reached with just hours remaining before the deadline"


So what? They still passed the budget which required raising the debt ceiling.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: A Question To All Of The Candidates Please..... (8/15/2011 2:34:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

If the Republicans didn't want to increase the Debt Limit, why did they pass all the spending bills which required it to be raised in the first place?



They didnt.

They most certainly did.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_United_States_federal_budget


From your link:

" However, a deal containing $38.5 billion in cuts from 2010 funding levels was reached with just hours remaining before the deadline"


So what? They still passed the budget which required raising the debt ceiling.


That wasnt the claim. He said that they had passed the SPENDING BILLS which required it to be raised. The spendng was under a Dem Congress. This House scaled back so that it didnt have to be raised as much.




DomKen -> RE: A Question To All Of The Candidates Please..... (8/15/2011 2:43:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

If the Republicans didn't want to increase the Debt Limit, why did they pass all the spending bills which required it to be raised in the first place?



They didnt.

They most certainly did.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_United_States_federal_budget


From your link:

" However, a deal containing $38.5 billion in cuts from 2010 funding levels was reached with just hours remaining before the deadline"


So what? They still passed the budget which required raising the debt ceiling.


That wasnt the claim. He said that they had passed the SPENDING BILLS which required it to be raised. The spendng was under a Dem Congress. This House scaled back so that it didnt have to be raised as much.

You claimed the republicans did not pass all the spending bills which required the debt ceiling to be raised. You are obviously trying to restrict the question to the present Congress and there is where you fail. The one and only spending bill which required raising the debt ceiling was the FY 2011 budget which the GOP most certainly did pass.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: A Question To All Of The Candidates Please..... (8/15/2011 2:49:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

If the Republicans didn't want to increase the Debt Limit, why did they pass all the spending bills which required it to be raised in the first place?



They didnt.

They most certainly did.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_United_States_federal_budget


From your link:

" However, a deal containing $38.5 billion in cuts from 2010 funding levels was reached with just hours remaining before the deadline"


So what? They still passed the budget which required raising the debt ceiling.


That wasnt the claim. He said that they had passed the SPENDING BILLS which required it to be raised. The spendng was under a Dem Congress. This House scaled back so that it didnt have to be raised as much.

You claimed the republicans did not pass all the spending bills which required the debt ceiling to be raised. You are obviously trying to restrict the question to the present Congress and there is where you fail. The one and only spending bill which required raising the debt ceiling was the FY 2011 budget which the GOP most certainly did pass.


Damn, my spinning KenDoll is on my other computer.




DomKen -> RE: A Question To All Of The Candidates Please..... (8/15/2011 4:41:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

If the Republicans didn't want to increase the Debt Limit, why did they pass all the spending bills which required it to be raised in the first place?



They didnt.

They most certainly did.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_United_States_federal_budget


From your link:

" However, a deal containing $38.5 billion in cuts from 2010 funding levels was reached with just hours remaining before the deadline"


So what? They still passed the budget which required raising the debt ceiling.


That wasnt the claim. He said that they had passed the SPENDING BILLS which required it to be raised. The spendng was under a Dem Congress. This House scaled back so that it didnt have to be raised as much.

You claimed the republicans did not pass all the spending bills which required the debt ceiling to be raised. You are obviously trying to restrict the question to the present Congress and there is where you fail. The one and only spending bill which required raising the debt ceiling was the FY 2011 budget which the GOP most certainly did pass.


Damn, my spinning KenDoll is on my other computer.

Are you actually trying to claim that if no Republican, ever, didn't vote for a deficit spending bill the party has no responsibility for the deficit spending they did vote for? Who's spinning precisely Mr. Dervish?




joether -> RE: A Question To All Of The Candidates Please..... (8/15/2011 7:11:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
Thanks for admitting that, joe - didnt think you had it in you.
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

Who creates the Budget? The US House of Representatives. Who sent 14 budget bills to the US Senate fulling knowing not one of them would pass? The US House of Representatives. Who wasted America's time, energy, taxpayer moneys and such, pushing those bills to a vote, knowing the bill is "DOA" once sent to the US Senate? The US House of Representatives. And who controls the US House of Representatives?

The Republican Party, subrob.

Many of them signed a 'no taxes' to one, Mr. Grover Norquist. Basically, it would be like you and I playing a game of 'Texas Hold 'em" with one basic change: Your two cards that you get, have to be played face up, but mine can be hidden. I already know what you have and know you have no wiggle room to bullshit. That is metaphorically the position the Republicans in the US House of Representatives have been in all these months.

An they can't even take ownership of their failures. Would you take someone serious that had HUGE problems taking ownership of their failures and problems?



The sad part of this, is you have NO IDEA WHAT I just said. You thought you did, but unfortunately you failed. Yes, in your petty attempt to sound educated you failed to take in the whole of the arguement. So I'll break it down for you Mr. 'Fiscal Conservative':

How much does it cost to pass a federal bill? Assuming the House, Senate and White House give their blessings and it does not spend any time in deliberations and arguements (not to mention the minority group using every stall tactic in the book)?

Now, the Republicans kept passing bill after bill, that failed to make its way to the Senate. While in the House, there were huge arguements both 'for and 'against'. How much money didi it cost the taxpayer in each of those sessions that would later fail to become a law?

The Republicans in the House (and the Senate) already knew the bills had no chance of winning, as the material in the bills were 'conservative wet dreams' that weren't even remotely based on reality (your favorite sort of material if I recall). An they passed these bills, not to accomplish the task of accountable and good goverment, but score political points in their home states/districts. An the conservatives ate up all the helpings without ever asking the simple question:

How much did those fourteen bills that failed to pass, cost the goverment (i.e. us taxpayers)? Its 'ok' to waste money, if a Republican does it in your book, but not 'ok' if a Democrat does it. That Sanity is called a 'double standard'. And a 'double standard' is kind of what got this nation in some deep financial trouble in the first place, Mr. 'Fiscal Conservative'?

If I was an actual fiscal conservative, I would be 'quitey pissed' that Republicans were wasting my money on screwball bills that had no chance of dealing with the problems at hand. One Bill. That's all it should have taken. A bill that compromises with those Democrats, and dealt with the issue right there and than.....no bull droppings. Unfortuantely, such individuals don't apparently exist. All we have now are a huge pack of pseudo-conservatives that got their Ph.D. in Economics from a Cracker Jack box!




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