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RE: Anger - 8/15/2011 9:07:18 AM

windchymes

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I think the original intent of the "punch a pillow" concept was that, if you are going to hit something or someone ANYWAY, make it a pillow, not a hard object that will break your bones, or a hard-headed object that will get you charged with battery. I know a lot of people, younger ones mostly, who get pissed off about something, stomp off, and then decide they'll teach that cinder-block wall a lesson......and then they show up the next day with their arm in a sling, which gets them lots of attention....... Draw your own conclusion there.

I don't think it meant assume a mindset of running for a pillow to start punching every time you get angry about something.

And the eventual goal would be to get to the point where you don't need to be physical at all to resolve an issue that made you angry.

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Post #: 21

RE: Anger - 8/15/2011 9:15:26 AM

Iamsemisweet

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Being pressed to talk about your anger while you are angry might not be the best way to handle it, since it is too easy to say things you don't mean when you are emotional. Can you negotiate in advance for a little time and space to sort through your feelings before you discuss them? Honest, calm Communication is good, unproductive hurtful communication is not

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Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

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Post #: 22

RE: Anger - 8/15/2011 9:21:18 AM

MrSprocket

Posts: 85
Joined: 8/10/2011
From: Cyberspace
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quote:

ORIGINAL: windchymes

I think the original intent of the "punch a pillow" concept was that, if you are going to hit something or someone ANYWAY, make it a pillow, not a hard object that will break your bones, or a hard-headed object that will get you charged with battery. I know a lot of people, younger ones mostly, who get pissed off about something, stomp off, and then decide they'll teach that cinder-block wall a lesson......and then they show up the next day with their arm in a sling, which gets them lots of attention....... Draw your own conclusion there.

I don't think it meant assume a mindset of running for a pillow to start punching every time you get angry about something.

And the eventual goal would be to get to the point where you don't need to be physical at all to resolve an issue that made you angry.

The process could be sped up if you made a punching pillow out of a burlap sack. Your knuckles could get beat up, sure, but it really makes you think about being "that" angry again.

Not the prettiest way to go, but it's effective lol

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Post #: 23

RE: Anger - 8/15/2011 9:42:21 AM

DommeKeliDallas

Posts: 311
Joined: 1/27/2008
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Just ask yourself...
will this matter in 10 minutes?
will this matter tomorrow?

or...
is this worth losing someone over?

(in reply to heartcream)

Post #: 24

RE: Anger - 8/15/2011 9:49:24 AM

MidnightBlue135

Posts: 9
Joined: 8/22/2008
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Lots and lots of good advice and things to think about in here. One thing is that in retrospect, I don't know if He has actually said "You have no right to be angry." That may be my interpretation of his response. I have been known to make assumptions and jump to conclusions of what people think or "would" say. As He puts it "You have whole conversations with me in your head, filling in my responses for me, and then act as if they were real."

To the person who asked if it is the vanilla aspects that are "good"...it is hard to distinguish. We just "are", if that makes sense. Even in the parts of our lives that aren't blatently kinky or overtly D/s, we are still Master and girl. I would say though that it is the mundane day to day things that everyone deals with that cause the issues...intergrating lives, offspring issues, long drives, etc.

I would not say that i am angry "a lot", but it still feels like too much. Someone suggested just taking time to cool off, appologizing and moving on. I have 2 issues with that. First, it seems like avoidance. The original scenario still hasnt been worked through and resolved. Second, when when go apart and take time, we (or me, at least) tend to mull and brood and get even more worked up because of things that are not being said. Too much time to think is not always good.

Many more awesome thoughts to respond to but no time right now. Thank you all...i will be back.

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 25

RE: Anger - 8/15/2011 9:58:55 AM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
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Here's the thing...

Do you feel you are angry a lot in life? With everyone? With life in general?
If so it sounds like you need to confront yourself with your anger and figure out why and what you can do to rectify that issue.

Or is it just with him? Why is that? If this is true then you need to ask yourself why you become so angry with him and your relationship. You may have to make some tough decisions then.

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Post #: 26

RE: Anger - 8/15/2011 10:49:47 AM

HisPet21

Posts: 395
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quote:

First off, he has no right to decide what your emotions are. And by telling you that your anger isn't justified, he's negating and belittling your feelings. Which makes you feel that he doesn't care about how you feel, which only makes you angrier.

I understand that he doesn't want to deal with you feeling negative toward him. None of us want that. However either we do deal with a partner's emotions, accepting their right to feel however they feel, or we destroy the relationship.

I'm not so sure that's the best way to think about anger, IMHO. Yes, we can't usually help how we feel. Emotions pop up whenever they so desire, however they so desire, and there isn't much we can do about the initial onset of an emotion. But once the emotion has been recognized by the individual having it, there is a LOT he/she can do to change the emotion or eliminate it all together if it turns out to be logically inappropriate. And, in my opinion, it is an individual's responsibility to recognize when her emotions aren't reasonable and reign them in. It is also my partner's responsibility to let me know when my anger is unreasonable. More than once he's told me that I was unjustified in my anger. Did it hurt? Hell, yeah. But in the end, he helped me to avoid doing a lot of stupid shit out of anger, and we are a stronger couple for it.

I once had a friend who would majorly go off when she was upset, over the stupidest shit. And when we tried to tell her after the fact that she needed to learn how not to get so upset over the dumbest stuff---that she needed to learn not to cry and swear and scream and throw stuff whenever she didn't get her way---her excuse was "I can't help how I feel...I'm not responsible for my emotions and anger, and you shouldn't judge me for that. Your my friends, so you just need to suck it up, deal with it. That's YOUR job." In other words, she figured she wasn't at all responsible for her emotions. Needles to say, most of her relationships crumbled. In my opinion, the phrase "people can't control their emotions" is a kind of bullshit myth for those who don't want to put in the effort to change themselves for the better.

Whenever I start to feel angry...ESPECIALLY at someone I love and trust...I look introspectively and ask, "Why am I angry and is my anger justified?" It took a LONG time for me to train this, as an automatic response, into myself and I am still working at it. If I am honest with myself, I find that most of my anger is not justified and, even if it is, taking it out on my partner would be unfair and cruel. Usually, this little rational tidbit is enough to diffuse my anger. And, if it isn't, I tell my partner that I am pissed, why I am pissed, and apologize for unjustly getting upset at him. But I do it sincerely, because I love him, and I would never want to hurt him, even though I do sometimes.

quote:

Most of the time, He feels that my anger is not justified, so ANY expression of it is out of line.

Now, this may be a problem. I would definitely say that expressing anger inappropriately should be considered "out of line." But if you are not allowed to express anger at all, even in a constructive way and even when it is justified, that IS a problem. You don't want a relationship with a dom who never wants you to express negative emotions. If he does, it indicates he doesn't give a shit about you, doesn't care to help you through the tough times in life, and is too much of a pussy to handle the occasional conflict.

(in reply to littlewonder)

Post #: 27

RE: Anger - 8/15/2011 11:05:12 AM

heartcream

Posts: 3044
Joined: 5/9/2007
From: Psychoalphadiscobetabioaquadoloop
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: windchymes

I think the original intent of the "punch a pillow" concept was that, if you are going to hit something or someone ANYWAY, make it a pillow, not a hard object that will break your bones, or a hard-headed object that will get you charged with battery. I know a lot of people, younger ones mostly, who get pissed off about something, stomp off, and then decide they'll teach that cinder-block wall a lesson......and then they show up the next day with their arm in a sling, which gets them lots of attention....... Draw your own conclusion there.

I don't think it meant assume a mindset of running for a pillow to start punching every time you get angry about something.

And the eventual goal would be to get to the point where you don't need to be physical at all to resolve an issue that made you angry.

There is really nothing wrong with getting physical with your rage/anger. Making it a goal to be non-physical with anger/rage is not a great goal imo. Haivng the acceptance for it, to embrace it, so to speak is a way better goal. I'd say. It is not something you need to "grow out of". If something happens that really pisses you off getting physical with the rage is Healthy. Getting at, and dealing with underlying rage that has been sitting unnoticed, uncared for is the thing to deal with if possible. Having done that, and having gotten alot of old charge out is good and Healthy. This does not mean if something happens that is unjust etc one wont experience anymore big levels of anger or rage and efficiently deal with it with a pillow means you havent grown or something. The judgments aorund anger and rage need quite a bit of healing and acceptance.

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Post #: 28

RE: Anger - 8/15/2011 11:08:15 AM

RaspberryLemon

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Joined: 7/18/2011
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Never has "cooling off" or "forgetting about it", etc. worked for me. If I am angry, I am angry for a reason. And I NEED to talk about it, I NEED to resolve it. As soon as possible. If I don't, the issue just festers in my head and makes me more and more angry until I explode.

My Master accepts this, and he encourages me to talk to him, be open about my feelings and thoughts, whatever they might be. If I'm angry at him, he wants to hear about it. The good thing, for me, about getting angry, though... it tends to FOCUS my thoughts rather than get them all over the place like it does for some people. I know exactly why I'm angry, and I express it very clearly and state my case logically--rather than back up my logic with emotions, I back up my emotions with logic, if that makes sense. To me, emotions and logic can become intertwined where they are non-distinguishable. If I feel something, there is a reason behind it and my anger drives me to express that as clearly as possible. All I want to do is get my point across, to let the other person understand. I find these things come pretty easily to me.

Sometimes I yell, yes, but it's usually in response to the other person raising his or her voice--I am good at catching myself or the other party before it gets to be too much, though (I just stop and say "please don't yell" or something similar when their vocal level starts getting threatening to me, and then we go back to normal talking.) I do get sarcastic at times, too--but I am sarcastic when I'm not angry, so it's just something I usually use to express myself and my Master is pretty used to it. He kind of likes it, in fact. It's something he can understand, so it doesn't bother him.

My whole point, though, is that anger is an emotion like any other. People feel emotions. He doesn't have a right to tell you not to feel them. That is impossible. What you need to do is have a talk with him where you both establish how it is acceptable to express your anger towards each other. Make sure you both avoid getting hostile. Focus on expressing your point rather than getting retribution.

(in reply to littlewonder)

Post #: 29

RE: Anger - 8/15/2011 11:21:28 AM

Iamsemisweet

Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
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I agree, you shouldn't avoid the issues that are making you angry. Sweeping stuff like that under the rug has caused the demise of many relationships. I just don't tank that when you are in the heat of emotion it is the best time to have a rationale, productive discussion,

quote:

ORIGINAL: MidnightBlue135

I would not say that i am angry "a lot", but it still feels like too much. Someone suggested just taking time to cool off, appologizing and moving on. I have 2 issues with that. First, it seems like avoidance. The original scenario still hasnt been worked through and resolved. Second, when when go apart and take time, we (or me, at least) tend to mull and brood and get even more worked up because of things that are not being said. Too much time to think is not always good.

Many more awesome thoughts to respond to but no time right now. Thank you all...i will be back.

_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to MidnightBlue135)

Post #: 30

RE: Anger - 8/15/2011 11:22:22 AM

MissImmortalPain

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Joined: 4/1/2011
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I think ChatteParfaitt gave you some very useful advice. Write it down. Write it down often, and over and over again. Write it down until you understand for youself what the real issue is. When you feel you have a real understanding of what is bothering you then hand it to him. If at that point can not understand it is something you will both have to talk about because it may have more to do with him than with you. On a more personal note I have a sub that often get angry about some things. I can understand most of them. What bothers me about his angry is that he too walks away. It may help him with his own control but in doing so he often then doesn't want to talk about it later. That leaves me feeling as if nothing has been fixed. Writing an issue out and than sitting down to talk about it can help with something like this. If you need to take the time to get it clear in your mind don't be afraid to tell him that. You are human, he is too, and he should understand.

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Post #: 31

RE: Anger - 8/15/2011 3:07:46 PM

NuevaVida

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Joined: 8/5/2008
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Here's how I look at it. When I feel angry at him I remind myself we are not enemies, we love each other, and we have to resolve the issue. I tell myself that even if I'm mad, treat him with love because I love him. Remember we're on the same, not opposing, sides. I don't want abusive behavior directed at me (I consider yelling in anger, name calling in anger, etc to be abusive behavior) so why would I treat him that way?

I do tell him I'm mad and why. And not happily, just calmly. He can hear it in my voice and see it in my face. Once I told him "Just because I'm not yelling doesnt mean I'm not really angry right now"

If I can't talk about it yet I tell him that. And then I'll write about it because it helps formulate my thoughts. Then we talk about it.

In the past I was a very angry person and I'd yell when mad. That didn't work with my ex owner and I was forced to think about my words and handle my anger better. I'm not always good at choosing the right words but I do try.

Anyway, that's my take on it. We've been mad at each other, but we haven't yelled. We give each other space and then we talk it out when we're ready. It gives us time to process exactly why we're mad and how it can be fixed, while looking at the bigger picture.

For me, though, I had to work through my other anger issues before I could come to this point.

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Post #: 32

RE: Anger - 8/15/2011 3:57:37 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
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Hispet21...... Fantastic post! You said alot of great things!

< Message edited by KnightofMists -- 8/15/2011 3:59:17 PM >

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An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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Post #: 33

RE: Anger - 8/15/2011 6:59:17 PM

RaspberryLemon

Posts: 422
Joined: 7/18/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

Here's how I look at it. When I feel angry at him I remind myself we are not enemies, we love each other, and we have to resolve the issue. I tell myself that even if I'm mad, treat him with love because I love him. Remember we're on the same, not opposing, sides. I don't want abusive behavior directed at me (I consider yelling in anger, name calling in anger, etc to be abusive behavior) so why would I treat him that way?

Spectacular advice.This is a really good way to keep calm even when you are extremely angry!

(in reply to NuevaVida)

Post #: 34

RE: Anger - 8/15/2011 7:17:55 PM

angelikaJ

Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MidnightBlue135

Lots and lots of good advice and things to think about in here. One thing is that in retrospect, I don't know if He has actually said "You have no right to be angry." That may be my interpretation of his response. I have been known to make assumptions and jump to conclusions of what people think or "would" say. As He puts it "You have whole conversations with me in your head, filling in my responses for me, and then act as if they were real."

This is a kind of big problem in communication.
You need to learn to hear what people are saying to you.
You need to learn to not arrive at conclusions before you have the conversation; otherwise, what's the point of having it... and I can see how easy it would be to get really wound up if one is angry over a misunderstanding and then carry on that whole dialogue inside one's head and not feel understood.

Have you thought about counselling to help you unlearn that?

edit: typo

< Message edited by angelikaJ -- 8/15/2011 7:18:46 PM >

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Post #: 35

RE: Anger - 8/16/2011 7:43:01 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HisPet21

I once had a friend who would majorly go off when she was upset, over the stupidest shit. And when we tried to tell her after the fact that she needed to learn how not to get so upset over the dumbest stuff---that she needed to learn not to cry and swear and scream and throw stuff whenever she didn't get her way---her excuse was "I can't help how I feel...I'm not responsible for my emotions and anger, and you shouldn't judge me for that. Your my friends, so you just need to suck it up, deal with it. That's YOUR job." In other words, she figured she wasn't at all responsible for her emotions. Needles to say, most of her relationships crumbled. In my opinion, the phrase "people can't control their emotions" is a kind of bullshit myth for those who don't want to put in the effort to change themselves for the better.

There's a huge difference between having an emotion and how you choose to express it.

A kid throws a tantrum. An adult owns their emotion and expresses it in words. By saying "I'm angry because...". Not by yelling, screaming, throwing things etc.

At no point did I say anyone has the right to use their emotions to coerce others in the manner you cited. I did say that our emotions exist and must be acknowledged if things are going to improve. It's when you don't acknowledge them that things get swept under the rug until a blow up occurs.

Feelings aren't facts, but they exist and must be validated if the relationship can thrive. If he shuts her down every time she gets angry at him, that's invalidation and it will cause problems.

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Post #: 36

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