quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Theon38

quote:

I mean hell, the right even wants women who are raped to pay the state for the kit to prove they where raped (NJ last week) How is that equal????

This sounds more like a libertarian position than a right position.

Although I don't consider myself libertarian, I do agree with this position. If someone broke my arm, they should pay for it. If they cannot be found and forced to pay, then i'll have to pay for it.

Why should I expect others to pay for me? Sure, it was a horrible thing that happened to me. But I see no reason why men with guns should go to your house and take your money to pay for me because something horrible happened to me.

How do you find the man who raped a woman without a rape kit to 1) prove you were raped and 2) Id with certainty who the rapist was?

If you are a victim of rape you shouldnt have to pay for this.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

ORIGINAL: Theon38

quote:

I mean hell, the right even wants women who are raped to pay the state for the kit to prove they where raped (NJ last week) How is that equal????

This sounds more like a libertarian position than a right position.

Although I don't consider myself libertarian, I do agree with this position. If someone broke my arm, they should pay for it. If they cannot be found and forced to pay, then i'll have to pay for it.

Why should I expect others to pay for me? Sure, it was a horrible thing that happened to me. But I see no reason why men with guns should go to your house and take your money to pay for me because something horrible happened to me.

What about the police sketch artist who makes a picture of the person who broke your arm? Should you pay for that? If someone is murdered, should his family pay for the CSI?

Look, we pay TAXES for these services. I find it offensive that rape victims are singled out to not receive crime investigation services.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Theon38

quote:

What I did state was that the only place on the political spectrum that contests gay rights is the Right. Opposition to gay rights is pretty much an exclusively Right wing phenomenon. Opposition to womens' rights is largely a Right wing phenomenon. This is the case throughout the Western world. This is also why arguments asserting equivalence across the spectrum fail completely.

I think you're wrong about this.

The right wants the same rights for everyone. Not different rights for the color of your skin, your gender, or your sexual preference.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Although she has, occasionally, shown the possibility that she might be able to break through her blinders, Firm

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Although she has, occasionally, shown the possibility that she might be able to break through her blinders,

Link, or it didnt happen.

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Theon38

quote:

I mean hell, the right even wants women who are raped to pay the state for the kit to prove they where raped (NJ last week) How is that equal????

This sounds more like a libertarian position than a right position.

Although I don't consider myself libertarian, I do agree with this position. If someone broke my arm, they should pay for it. If they cannot be found and forced to pay, then i'll have to pay for it.

Why should I expect others to pay for me? Sure, it was a horrible thing that happened to me. But I see no reason why men with guns should go to your house and take your money to pay for me because something horrible happened to me.

How do you find the man who raped a woman without a rape kit to 1) prove you were raped and 2) Id with certainty who the rapist was?

If you are a victim of rape you shouldnt have to pay for this.

Why not?

quote:

ORIGINAL: outhere69

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Theon38

quote:

I mean hell, the right even wants women who are raped to pay the state for the kit to prove they where raped (NJ last week) How is that equal????

This sounds more like a libertarian position than a right position.

Although I don't consider myself libertarian, I do agree with this position. If someone broke my arm, they should pay for it. If they cannot be found and forced to pay, then i'll have to pay for it.

Why should I expect others to pay for me? Sure, it was a horrible thing that happened to me. But I see no reason why men with guns should go to your house and take your money to pay for me because something horrible happened to me.

How do you find the man who raped a woman without a rape kit to 1) prove you were raped and 2) Id with certainty who the rapist was?

If you are a victim of rape you shouldnt have to pay for this.

Why not?

Does the phrase "add insult to injury" ring any bells with you?  Why don't you pay for fingerprinting at the scene, etc.

I sure would like to be a fly on the wall if you asked that question to a wife or other female offspring/relative. 

You're kind of upping the level of assholeness with that remark.

In a landmark decision issued Wednesday, a federal judge ruled Wednesday that California’s voter-approved ban on same-sex marriage violates the U.S. Constitution.

...

Ted Olson, the former Bush administration solicitor general who argued on behalf of the plaintiffs, said Walker’s ruling is “a victory for the American people and a victory for the American justice system.” While the case is far from over, he said, “with this decision we are well on our way to an ultimate victory” for same-sex couples and the nation.

Nevertheless, Obama has also publicly opposed same-sex marriage, and a White House aide said the president’s position has not changed.

“He supports civil unions, doesn’t personally support gay marriage though he supports repealing the Defense of Marriage Act, and has opposed divisive and discriminatory initiatives like Prop. 8 in other states,” said the official, who asked not to be named.

(In the year 2009…)

The elected officials in the NY State Senate who voted AGAINST same-sex marriage were:

Every Republican NY State Senator
Ruben Diaz Sr. (Democrat)
Joseph Addabbo (Democrat)
Shirley Huntley (Democrat)
Hiram Monserrate (Democrat)
George Onorato (Democrat)
Carl Kruger (Democrat)
Darrel Aubertine (Democrat)
William Stachowski (Democrat)

CBS News Poll. Aug. 20-24, 2010. N=1,082 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3.

THE issue of gay marriage brings to a head, like few other issues of our time, a central conflict between two moral positions that interact like seismic plates beneath the surface of contemporary American political life. It is commonly thought that the issue of gay marriage pits secular liberals against religious conservatives. While this understanding is accurate up to a point, it is also seriously misleading.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Theon38

quote:

What I did state was that the only place on the political spectrum that contests gay rights is the Right. Opposition to gay rights is pretty much an exclusively Right wing phenomenon. Opposition to womens' rights is largely a Right wing phenomenon. This is the case throughout the Western world. This is also why arguments asserting equivalence across the spectrum fail completely.

I think you're wrong about this.

The right wants the same rights for everyone. Not different rights for the color of your skin, your gender, or your sexual preference.

For example, she is claiming that the 70% of blacks in California who voted for Prop 8 are "right wing", that libertarians believe that government should control the lives of individuals and prevent gay marriage, that all fiscal conservatives are social conservatives and are rabidly opposed to gay marriage and that the Log Cabin Republican's don't exist.


Firm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Theon38

quote:

I mean hell, the right even wants women who are raped to pay the state for the kit to prove they where raped (NJ last week) How is that equal????

This sounds more like a libertarian position than a right position.

Although I don't consider myself libertarian, I do agree with this position. If someone broke my arm, they should pay for it. If they cannot be found and forced to pay, then i'll have to pay for it.

Why should I expect others to pay for me? Sure, it was a horrible thing that happened to me. But I see no reason why men with guns should go to your house and take your money to pay for me because something horrible happened to me.

quote:

Ok, here's a few more tidbits for tweaks "All, and only the Right" is opposed to gay marriage:

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

This is pure fiction. I have never made any such claims. The links are not to anything I have ever said eg. the first links to a piece in the LA Times. If you insist that I made these claims Firm put links to where I made them, not deceive people with misleading links.

The only place that gay rights are opposed is on the Right.

"And large sections of the Right are rabid about denying gays their rights."

"What I did state was that the only place on the political spectrum that contests gay rights is the Right."

"Opposition to gay rights is pretty much an exclusively Right wing phenomenon"

"... why does the Right (and by and large, only the Right) oppose these measures?"
(emphasis in the original)

"Every one knows that opposition to equality in marriage comes from the Right and the Right alone."

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Why do you invent such falsehoods? Do you think this is a way of avoiding the issue here - the absolute hypocrisy of so many Right wingers who claim to be in pro-equal rights and then do everything possible to oppose equal rights for minorities?

I note that neither Firm nor Theeon has yet dissociated themselves from the bigotry of their fellow right wing ideologues who deny equality in marriage on the basis of sexual preference. Instead we get lies evasions word games and semantics to conceal their refusal to confront the rampant bigotry found so often on the Right side of politics.

Firm, Theeon, the only people you are fooling are yourselves and your fellow deluded right wingers. Every one knows that opposition to equality in marriage comes from the Right and the Right alone. Your clumsy attempts at obscuring this are having the effect of making the bigotry of so many Right wingers clearer and more transparent.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

This is pure fiction. I have never made any such claims. The links are not to anything I have ever said eg. the first links to a piece in the LA Times. If you insist that I made these claims Firm put links to where I made them, not deceive people with misleading links.

How about these links?

tweak's Post 29:

The only place that gay rights are opposed is on the Right.

"And large sections of the Right are rabid about denying gays their rights."

tweak's Post 58:

"What I did state was that the only place on the political spectrum that contests gay rights is the Right."

"Opposition to gay rights is pretty much an exclusively Right wing phenomenon"

tweak's Post 66:

"... why does the Right (and by and large, only the Right) oppose these measures?"
(emphasis in the original)

tweak's Post 89 (this post, itself!)

"Every one knows that opposition to equality in marriage comes from the Right and the Right alone."

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Why do you invent such falsehoods? Do you think this is a way of avoiding the issue here - the absolute hypocrisy of so many Right wingers who claim to be in pro-equal rights and then do everything possible to oppose equal rights for minorities?

I note that neither Firm nor Theeon has yet dissociated themselves from the bigotry of their fellow right wing ideologues who deny equality in marriage on the basis of sexual preference. Instead we get lies evasions word games and semantics to conceal their refusal to confront the rampant bigotry found so often on the Right side of politics.

Firm, Theeon, the only people you are fooling are yourselves and your fellow deluded right wingers. Every one knows that opposition to equality in marriage comes from the Right and the Right alone. Your clumsy attempts at obscuring this are having the effect of making the bigotry of so many Right wingers clearer and more transparent.

Either you are being dishonest, or you honestly doesn't see what you are saying.

I suspect you can't tell the difference, and believe that you are being correct and consistent. Such blindness easily identifies the True Believer, one of the Faithful, who can't let facts interfere with their beliefs.

But any non-ideologue can easily determine that you believe that it is "the Right and only the Right" that opposes gay rights and marriage, and that it is ony "the Left and many in the Centre of politics advocate legal change" in relation to gay "rights" and gay marriage.

Even when there are numerous examples of just the opposite of your beliefs.  Some of which I provided.

Hosted. Petard.

Sit on it.

Firm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Firm is on a life long quest to clear republicans of their bad rep and joust a few windmills along the way.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Firm is on a life long quest to clear republicans of their bad rep and joust a few windmills along the way.

Nah, I just believe that putting "everyone" in boxes that reduce them and their beliefs to Leggo-like components, and therefore make them easier to hate and kill is unhealthy.

Hell, I probably talk to the libs and lefties on the forums more than I do the more right-thinking members.

I even like you, O59.

I must be insane, as tweak wants us to believe.  Maybe I am a conservative nut-case.

Firm

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

LMAO. I dont give her the benefit of the doubt you do.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

This is pure fiction. I have never made any such claims. The links are not to anything I have ever said eg. the first links to a piece in the LA Times. If you insist that I made these claims Firm put links to where I made them, not deceive people with misleading links.

How about these links?

tweak's Post 29:

The only place that gay rights are opposed is on the Right.

"And large sections of the Right are rabid about denying gays their rights."

tweak's Post 58:

"What I did state was that the only place on the political spectrum that contests gay rights is the Right."

"Opposition to gay rights is pretty much an exclusively Right wing phenomenon"

tweak's Post 66:

"... why does the Right (and by and large, only the Right) oppose these measures?"
(emphasis in the original)

tweak's Post 89 (this post, itself!)

"Every one knows that opposition to equality in marriage comes from the Right and the Right alone."

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Why do you invent such falsehoods? Do you think this is a way of avoiding the issue here - the absolute hypocrisy of so many Right wingers who claim to be in pro-equal rights and then do everything possible to oppose equal rights for minorities?

I note that neither Firm nor Theeon has yet dissociated themselves from the bigotry of their fellow right wing ideologues who deny equality in marriage on the basis of sexual preference. Instead we get lies evasions word games and semantics to conceal their refusal to confront the rampant bigotry found so often on the Right side of politics.

Firm, Theeon, the only people you are fooling are yourselves and your fellow deluded right wingers. Every one knows that opposition to equality in marriage comes from the Right and the Right alone. Your clumsy attempts at obscuring this are having the effect of making the bigotry of so many Right wingers clearer and more transparent.

Either you are being dishonest, or you honestly doesn't see what you are saying.

I suspect you can't tell the difference, and believe that you are being correct and consistent. Such blindness easily identifies the True Believer, one of the Faithful, who can't let facts interfere with their beliefs.

But any non-ideologue can easily determine that you believe that it is "the Right and only the Right" that opposes gay rights and marriage, and that it is ony "the Left and many in the Centre of politics advocate legal change" in relation to gay "rights" and gay marriage.

Even when there are numerous examples of just the opposite of your beliefs.  Some of which I provided.

Hosted. Petard.

Sit on it.

Firm

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

LMAO. I dont give her the benefit of the doubt you do.

*sighs*

Well, it takes a lot for me to give up hope on someone. I think if she can be made to see her own bigotry, she is smart enough to re-evaluate her beliefs.  Or at least fight her own bigotry.

Maybe it is my "hate-filled" Christian upbringing, but I do wish the best for everyone.  

Firm

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

LMAO. I dont give her the benefit of the doubt you do.

I think if she can be made to see her own bigotry,

Your mistake starts right there in bold.

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

LMAO. I dont give her the benefit of the doubt you do.

*sighs*

Well, it takes a lot for me to give up hope on someone. I think if she can be made to see her own bigotry, she is smart enough to re-evaluate her beliefs.  Or at least fight her own bigotry.

Maybe it is my "hate-filled" Christian upbringing, but I do wish the best for everyone.  

Firm

Your mistake starts right there in bold.