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RE: Oh NOOO!! Another Gay GOP sex scandel brewing - 8/16/2011 9:14:54 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

LMAO. I dont give her the benefit of the doubt you do.

*sighs*

Well, it takes a lot for me to give up hope on someone. I think if she can be made to see her own bigotry, she is smart enough to re-evaluate her beliefs.  Or at least fight her own bigotry.

Maybe it is my "hate-filled" Christian upbringing, but I do wish the best for everyone.  

Firm



Your mistake starts right there in bold.



Well golly gosh! In the bizarre fantasy world of the looney Right, supporting equality in marriage is taken as evidence of bigotry!

What a crazy perverse world Right wingers inhabit.

I'm off to teach a class now - thanks for giving me material to show my students how hate distorts reality.


Bring a mirror and your posts on Israel. Theyll give you an A+ in your own topic.

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RE: Oh NOOO!! Another Gay GOP sex scandel brewing - 8/16/2011 9:27:29 PM   
TreasureKY


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From: Kentucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

There is a world of difference, Firm, between asserting that opposition to gay marriage is opposed by the Right (as I stated)...


You're saying that the right opposes people who are against gay marriage???

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

... I shouldn't have to point out such an obvious thing out to any one with a real degree in 'Political Science' such as you constantly claim to possess.


Far be it from me to point out your dishonestly, however... Firm has never mentioned his Masters Degree in International Political Science.  Once or twice I have pointed it out to a few idiots who've suggested he learn something about political science. 

There is a world of difference, Tweak, between my mentioning Firm's degree a couple of times (as I have) and asserting that Firm constantly claiming to possess a degree (as you falsely claim).

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Do you support the denial of marriage to gays? Why is it more important for you to deflect attention from the Right's opposition to gay marriage and invent falsehoods about other posters here? Why are you so silent about the opposition to marriage rights promoted by your fellow Right wingers? Why do you tolerate their bigotry?


Firm and I do not live and breathe on this forum.  Every belief we hold is not represented here.  We do not read every post made and do not respond to each and every one.

Many, many stupid comments are put forth in these fora and we do not consider it our responsibility to support or decry each and every one.  We are tolerant in so far as allowing all people to hold whatever beliefs they have, and insert our own opinions when it suits us and when we feel like it might possibly make any sort of difference.

Failure to call anyone out for a comment we neither agree with or condone, does not constitute agreement.

What you are attempting to do is to twist your own impressions into a version of truth that does not exist.  Seriously... grow up. 

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Oh NOOO!! Another Gay GOP sex scandel brewing - 8/16/2011 9:28:36 PM   
domiguy


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It looks like he probably did partake in some sort of wonderful homoriffic behavior. He did co-sponsor a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage which is not exactly a "gay friendly" maneuver. Now soliciting an 18-year-old man for "a really good time" in a hotel room is a rather "gay friendly" maneuver as well as engaging as a john in prostitution. which I believe is an illegal act.

Come on Firm, proposing a "constitutional ban on gay marriage" while you enjoy a healthy dose of homosexual sodomy is surely grounds for being called a hypocrite.

I do feel bad for his wife and family and I am rather confident that Mr Hinkle will soon be stepping down and will be making a public statement suggesting that his new found love of cock is obviously the devil's work.

unless the story is completely unfounded which does not appear to be the case, he is 100% screwed and is definitely just another right wing pandering hypocrite.

It wasn't enough for him to say that gay marriage is evil he wanted a constitutional ban on the practice. Unlike you, I smell a pile of astroglide and hypocrisy in Mr Hinkle.





< Message edited by domiguy -- 8/16/2011 9:29:09 PM >


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RE: Oh NOOO!! Another Gay GOP sex scandel brewing - 8/16/2011 9:29:48 PM   
Dinnardin


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..

< Message edited by Dinnardin -- 8/16/2011 9:44:42 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 104
RE: Oh NOOO!! Another Gay GOP sex scandel brewing - 8/16/2011 9:35:06 PM   
domiguy


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whether Mr Hinkle was a Dem or Rep, it really doesn't matter, he is done. It's just all the sweeter when the guy begging for the cock proposed a constitutional ban on gay marriage.

And yes, that is a form of hypocrisy.

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Profile   Post #: 105
RE: Oh NOOO!! Another Gay GOP sex scandel brewing - 8/16/2011 9:36:55 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Well golly gosh! In the bizarre fantasy world of the looney Right, supporting equality in marriage is taken as evidence of bigotry!

What a crazy perverse world Right wingers inhabit.

I'm off to teach a class now - thanks for giving me material to show my students how hate distorts reality.

Damn.  What do you teach?  Modern Feminism and Its Coming Role in the Destruction of the Israeli State

Here, let me crunch some numbers for you, based on the chart I posted above, showing the percentage of opposition/support for gay marriage, from a CBS poll from last year.

Assumptions:

1.  Total US Population: 309 million.
2.  Right = Republicans
3.  Left/Progressive = Democrats

Political Affiliation Of the US Population

4.  Number of Republicans as a percentage of the population: 21%
5.  Number of Democrats as a percentage of the population: 39%

Opposition to Gay Marriage by Party Affiliation (see chart above)

6. Republicans Opposed: 37%
7. Democrats Opposed: 20%

Calculated Real Numbers of the US Population Opposed to Gay Marriage by Dem/Rep Self-Identification:

8. Republicans/The Right: 23 million
9. Democrats/The Left: 23 million

Conclusion

Only the Right opposes Gay Marriage! 

(That's your fucking logic, tweak.)

Firm

< Message edited by FirmhandKY -- 8/16/2011 9:44:47 PM >


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Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Oh NOOO!! Another Gay GOP sex scandel brewing - 8/16/2011 9:42:22 PM   
domiguy


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Come on Firmy, you can do it, I know you can.

Please tell me you do see some hypocrisy in the alleged actions of Mr Hinkle when compared to his political beliefs.

Come on, I know you want to. Do EEEEEEET! It's okay, it'll makes you seem almost persony...lol.

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Profile   Post #: 107
RE: Oh NOOO!! Another Gay GOP sex scandel brewing - 8/16/2011 9:43:14 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

It looks like he probably did partake in some sort of wonderful homoriffic behavior. He did co-sponsor a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage which is not exactly a "gay friendly" maneuver. Now soliciting an 18-year-old man for "a really good time" in a hotel room is a rather "gay friendly" maneuver as well as engaging as a john in prostitution. which I believe is an illegal act.

Come on Firm, proposing a "constitutional ban on gay marriage" while you enjoy a healthy dose of homosexual sodomy is surely grounds for being called a hypocrite.

I do feel bad for his wife and family and I am rather confident that Mr Hinkle will soon be stepping down and will be making a public statement suggesting that his new found love of cock is obviously the devil's work.

unless the story is completely unfounded which does not appear to be the case, he is 100% screwed and is definitely just another right wing pandering hypocrite.

It wasn't enough for him to say that gay marriage is evil he wanted a constitutional ban on the practice. Unlike you, I smell a pile of astroglide and hypocrisy in Mr Hinkle.

I don't really disagree, domi.

I think he is likely toast, and likely guilty of hypocrisy.

I only posted in this thread to highlight some peoples' condemnation of "jumping to conclusions" when its their ox being gored, but being more than willing to "jump to conclusions" when its their political opponents ox being gored.

Its been pretty fun, so far. 

Firm


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Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Oh NOOO!! Another Gay GOP sex scandel brewing - 8/16/2011 9:49:05 PM   
tazzygirl


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Lets try this again.  The man doesnt log out when he is on my pc.  I usually catch it, I didnt this time.

quote:

Why not?


Do we charge others to determine the act of a crime?

Rape is a crime.  Proof is needed to determine guilt.  Much like fingerprints are at the scene of a robbery, or ballistic reports are needed for a murder.

Charging to determine the occurrence of a crime isn't utilized in any other case that I know of.


_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
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Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Oh NOOO!! Another Gay GOP sex scandel brewing - 8/16/2011 9:54:38 PM   
TreasureKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dinnardin

Do we charge others to determine the act of a crime?

Rape is a crime.  Proof is needed to determine guilt.  Much like fingerprints are at the scene of a robbery, or ballistic reports are needed for a murder.

Charging to determine the occurrence of a crime isn't utilized in any other case that I know of.


Not that I agree with the idea of having to pay for your own rape kit, but your parallels are a bit off. 

Fingerprints are not required to prove that a robbery occurred... and a ballistic report is not needed to prove a murder.  These are tools used to collect prosecutorial evidence.

The main point you've missed is that rape kits are not utilized to prove a rape occurred, either.  Again, they are used to collect evidence for prosecution.

Now, to clarify the issue raised about rape kits by housesub4you and further muddled by tazzygirl, kalikshama and others...

The Violence Against Women Act of 2005 requires that the Government get the bill for rape kits used by hospitals for women who are too traumatized to go to the police.  Police do not take possession of the evidence until a woman decides to report the rape and press charges.  Prior to that Act, many jurisdictions refused to pay the cost unless a police report was filed.

While this is a Federal requirement, many hospitals either intentionally (in order to collect from the victims insurance) or erroneously billed the victim.  The NJ bill mentioned sought to stop that practice. 

Just so we are clear... this isn't about the police billing a woman for the forensic collection equipment used in a crime scene investigation.

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RE: Oh NOOO!! Another Gay GOP sex scandel brewing - 8/16/2011 9:57:07 PM   
tazzygirl


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sorry sweets... that was me.. not Master Dinnardin.

And, yes its for evidence gathering.  Again, do we charge for any other type of testing or evidence gathering?


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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 111
RE: Oh NOOO!! Another Gay GOP sex scandel brewing - 8/16/2011 10:03:36 PM   
Owner59


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Weasel words a come`n......watch out!

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Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Oh NOOO!! Another Gay GOP sex scandel brewing - 8/16/2011 10:03:57 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

sorry sweets... that was me.. not Master Dinnardin.

And, yes its for evidence gathering.  Again, do we charge for any other type of testing or evidence gathering?



Siggghhh. You do know the NJ bill is to ensure the victim ISNT charged, right?

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 113
RE: Oh NOOO!! Another Gay GOP sex scandel brewing - 8/16/2011 10:05:43 PM   
tazzygirl


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I was not referring to just the NJ bill.  Its come up in many states.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: Oh NOOO!! Another Gay GOP sex scandel brewing - 8/16/2011 10:07:39 PM   
TreasureKY


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From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

sorry sweets... that was me.. not Master Dinnardin.

And, yes its for evidence gathering.  Again, do we charge for any other type of testing or evidence gathering?



Did you miss this statement...?

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

Just so we are clear... this isn't about the police billing a woman for the forensic collection equipment used in a crime scene investigation.


But to play devil's advocate on the real issue, how about we look at this the other way around.  If I call a private investigating firm to come collect fingerprints from my home after a robbery, should I be able to send the bill to the police?  Even if I decide not to file a police report?

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Oh NOOO!! Another Gay GOP sex scandel brewing - 8/16/2011 10:08:19 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I was not referring to just the NJ bill.  Its come up in many states.


And where exactly has it come up that victims should pay, when the Federal government already pays?

Careful, shovels are not your friend lately.

_____________________________

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RE: Oh NOOO!! Another Gay GOP sex scandel brewing - 8/16/2011 10:17:13 PM   
Iamsemisweet


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Really. What an interesting comparison.
Well, here is another way to look at it. Marriage is not a thing that can be provided like the other, completely unrelated things you mention. As to the people involved and the government, though, marriage is a legal status. If you are within that status, you have the right to the protection of laws that recognize marital status, such as inheritance, privilege not to be forced to testify against each other, and division of property.

It isn't government giving anybody anything, except the right to be protected by the law. Unless you are gay of course, and then you are just fucked.
So, since you obviously believe that everyone needs to provide for themselves, what is you objection to gays being treated equally?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Theon38

quote:

Do you consider marriage a right?


I absolutely, 100%, do not consider marriage to be a right. Other things I do not consider to be rights (So you can see where i'm coming from) are housing, food, water, shelter, etc.

Provide them for yourself, or beg charity from others, but don't expect the government to provide these things.




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RE: Oh NOOO!! Another Gay GOP sex scandel brewing - 8/16/2011 10:42:35 PM   
Iamsemisweet


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Treasure KY, you stated that a rape kit is different somehow than a ballistic report or fingerprints bcause the latter two are used to collect prosecutorial evidence. You go on to state that a rape kit is different because it isn't needed to prove a crime occurred. Maybe, maybe not, but what a rape kit can be used for is to prove the identify of the perpetrator. Prosecutors need evidence of that too, you know. So, how are they different again? Or am I just not understanding what you are saying?
Somebody else compared expecting the police to pay the doctor bills for an arm broken in an assault to a rape kit. That doesn't make sense either, since treatment for a broken arm is medical treatment to help one heal. A rape kit is an investigative tool, and doesn't do anything to improve the victim's health.
So, there is really no logical reason for a crime victim to pay for their own rape kit. Of course, all these arguments arre just academic, if what you say about the Violence Against Woman Act is true.

< Message edited by Iamsemisweet -- 8/16/2011 10:46:56 PM >


_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

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RE: Oh NOOO!! Another Gay GOP sex scandel brewing - 8/16/2011 10:44:23 PM   
tazzygirl


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As of May 2009, the federal Violence Against Women Act of 2005 went into effect,[6] requiring state governments who wish to continue receiving federal funding to pay for "Jane Doe rape kits" or, "anonymous rape tests", which allows victims too traumatized to go to the police to undergo the procedure at hospitals, which will maintain the collected evidence in a sealed envelope identified only by a number, unless police access its contents upon the victim's decision to press charges. While the practice had been recommended by the Federal Bureau of Investigation since at least 1999, and was already followed at some health clinics, colleges and hospitals, and in the state of Massachusetts, many jurisdictions up until then refused to pay the estimated $800 cost of the rape examination without a police report filed by the victim.[11] In 2011, the National Institute of Justice published a report, “The Road Ahead: Unanalyzed Evidence in Sexual Assault Cases," providing an overview of deep problems nationwide and the contributing factors to ongoing bureaucratic difficulties. These backlogs and delays may lead to a lack of justice for victims, the report notes, and “in worst-case scenarios … lead to additional victimization by serial offenders or the incarceration of people wrongly con­victed of a crime.” Findings include: 1) As an indicator of how widespread this problem has become, “18 percent of unsolved alleged sexual assaults that occurred from 2002 to 2007 contained forensic evidence that was still in police custody (not submitted to a crime lab for analysis)"; 2) One major challenge is that 43% of law enforcement agencies “do not have a computerized system for tracking forensic evidence, either in their inventory or after it is sent to the crime lab"; 3) On average, 50–60% of kits test positive for biological material that does not belong to the victim; 4) Survey responses indicated that there may be some misunderstanding of the value of biological evidence. 44% of the law enforcement agencies said that one of the reasons they did not send evidence to the lab was that a suspect had not been identified. 15% said that they did not submit evidence because “analysis had not been requested by a prosecutor.”[12]

Alaska... which has been well reported.. and Texas as late as 2009.



Turns out experts on sexual assault are all too familiar with the issue. "It's been a problem for a long time," says Ilse Knecht, deputy director of public policy at the National Center for Victims of Crime. "We've heard so many stories of victims paying for their exams, or not being able to and then creditors coming after them." In order to qualify for federal grants under the Violence Against Women Act, states have to assume the full out-of-pocket costs for forensic medical exams, as the rape kits are called. But according to a 2004 bulletin published by the NCVC, "[F]eedback from the field indicates that sexual assault victims are still being billed." Knecht says she's recently heard from caseworkers in Illinois, Georgia, and Arkansas reporting that rape victims continue to be charged for their forensic exams.

http://health.usnews.com/health-news/blogs/on-health-and-money/2008/02/21/rape-victims-can-be-hurt-financially-too

Reveals a number of states charging as late as 2008.  A few, including NC were also listed.

As much as you hate my pasting... here goes another...

Unfortunately, poorly drafted state laws and bureaucratic bungling mean that too many rape victims across the country are pressed to pay, or arrange payment for, the cost of their rape kits. The federal Violence Against Women Act prohibits states from charging victims for rape kit collection, or risk losing federal funding, and every state has passed a law to implement this requirement. This is a significant and necessary reform, but its effect is limited by weak state laws and the way hospitals, the police, prosecutors, and victim compensation funds interpret and carry out their obligation to assume the cost of rape kit collection. Some state laws are simply inadequate. For example, Oklahoma's law caps compensation for rape victims at $450. This covers barely one-third of the estimated cost of collecting a rape kit in that state. Maine's law caps compensation at $500.The laws in North Dakota, Oregon, and the District of Columbia allow the victim to seek compensation for any cost she incurs for the collection of her rape kit. This means that the victim may first have to pay the bill herself, and then apply for compensation. In Montana, the victim is supposed to be compensated as long as the victim compensation fund does not run out and as long as she cooperates with the investigation. Other states, like Texas, have laws that appear adequate but can be poorly executed. Texas's statute seems clear: law enforcement must pay the cost of a rape kit. In practice, the payment process is far from simple. In February 2009, I spoke with a rape victim in Texas who received a notice from the hospital that the police had paid $700 toward the cost of the exam, leaving her responsible for the remaining $800. She didn't know about the victim compensation fund, and made two payments of $50 each before a victim's advocate helped her to apply to the fund, which eventually paid the remainder. The woman told Human Rights Watch: "I don't understand why they had to involve me at all. Why couldn't [the victim compensation fund] and the police and the hospital have worked it out on their own? The payment of my rape kit seemed like a big hassle." If rape kits are to be treated like fingerprints collected at a robbery - in fact like every other kind of forensic evidence - then states should assume the full cost, in every case, regardless of the circumstances. States also need to prohibit the parties responsible for payment, such as hospitals, from billing the rape victim or pressing her to pay the bill and seek compensation later.   Agreeing to the collection of a rape kit represents a victim's hope for justice in her case. Receiving a bill in the mail for basic police work represents an unacceptable but still too common truth - that the criminal justice system has a lot to learn about how it deals with rape victims.
http://www.hrw.org/news/2009/05/13/making-rape-victims-pay
Now, can we get back to why Theon stated it was ok to make women pay for rape kits?  Which is what I am objecting too.



_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Oh NOOO!! Another Gay GOP sex scandel brewing - 8/16/2011 11:28:47 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

Treasure KY, you stated that a rape kit is different somehow than a ballistic report or fingerprints bcause the latter two are used to collect prosecutorial evidence.


You misunderstood.  I didn't say they were different... I was pointing out the fault with Tazzy's assertion that rape kits were needed to determine the occurrence of a crime, like fingerprints and ballistic reports were needed to determine guilt. 

However, you are correct in that the whole issue is purely academic. 

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)
Profile   Post #: 120
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