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RE: Libertarians to build their own countries - 8/16/2011 3:11:16 PM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

How funny! Never heard of that before, tj444. ^_^

well, i read about it several years ago... more of a tax haven thing... after all, why else would you want one, you cant really do much on something that small..

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Post #: 21

RE: Libertarians to build their own countries - 8/16/2011 3:49:36 PM

provfivetine

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Seasteading has been on the radar for some time now. This whole idea would be better suited for socialists/communists/marxists. They can live in their cute little communes and abolish the division of labor where they can live according to their needs. Let's get started!

(in reply to tj444)

Post #: 22

RE: Libertarians to build their own countries - 8/16/2011 3:52:05 PM

Fellow

Posts: 1486
Joined: 9/21/2009
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Rich people have always done strange things. It has nothing to do with libertarianism as political ideology. I suspect pushing this kind of news is part of mainstream media anti Ron Paul campaign.

(in reply to tj444)

Post #: 23

RE: Libertarians to build their own countries - 8/16/2011 4:21:14 PM

outhere69

Posts: 1302
Joined: 1/25/2011
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They used to have a plan to start immigrating to Vermont and building up a majority. Then they'd take over the political system. They selected Vermont based on the population:land size, political climate, etc.

There are a whole bunch of Vermonters that are not exactly fond of that plan!

(in reply to Fellow)

Post #: 24

RE: Libertarians to build their own countries - 8/16/2011 4:41:27 PM

willbeurdaddy

Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: provfivetine

Seasteading has been on the radar for some time now. This whole idea would be better suited for socialists/communists/marxists. They can live in their cute little communes and abolish the division of labor where they can live according to their needs. Let's get started!

meh, I say use them as penal colonies, like Australia, send the libs to them and let us have our country back!

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and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to provfivetine)

Post #: 25

RE: Libertarians to build their own countries - 8/16/2011 5:04:00 PM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

Not if they can trade information. Such as better medical devices, engineering, and IT.

They should be able to manage that, stuck in the middle of nowhere, without any resources

(in reply to Aylee)

Post #: 26

RE: Libertarians to build their own countries - 8/16/2011 5:07:21 PM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

but they will have a very very small government.

I wonder how many who clamour for "Small government" On here will sign up for the deal.

My money is on "none"

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 27

RE: Libertarians to build their own countries - 8/16/2011 5:10:11 PM

Politesub53

Posts: 14862
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quote:

ORIGINAL: provfivetine

Seasteading has been on the radar for some time now. This whole idea would be better suited for socialists/communists/marxists. They can live in their cute little communes and abolish the division of labor where they can live according to their needs. Let's get started!

Laughable given its rich capitalists leading the way. No government, no tax, no medicare to pay for. I am surprised you havent jumped at the chance.

(in reply to provfivetine)

Post #: 28

RE: Libertarians to build their own countries - 8/16/2011 7:58:23 PM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: provfivetine

Seasteading has been on the radar for some time now. This whole idea would be better suited for socialists/communists/marxists. They can live in their cute little communes and abolish the division of labor where they can live according to their needs. Let's get started!

meh, I say use them as penal colonies, like Australia, send the libs to them and let us have our country back!

Liberals founded this country. We've put up with the nonsense of conservatives claiming this nation as their own for too long.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

Post #: 29

RE: Libertarians to build their own countries - 8/16/2011 8:02:01 PM

willbeurdaddy

Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: provfivetine

Seasteading has been on the radar for some time now. This whole idea would be better suited for socialists/communists/marxists. They can live in their cute little communes and abolish the division of labor where they can live according to their needs. Let's get started!

meh, I say use them as penal colonies, like Australia, send the libs to them and let us have our country back!

Liberals founded this country. We've put up with the nonsense of conservatives claiming this nation as their own for too long.

ROFL. Sure they were liberals. The original small government politicians were liberals. Youre a fucking joke.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 30

RE: Libertarians to build their own countries - 8/16/2011 8:06:00 PM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: provfivetine

Seasteading has been on the radar for some time now. This whole idea would be better suited for socialists/communists/marxists. They can live in their cute little communes and abolish the division of labor where they can live according to their needs. Let's get started!

meh, I say use them as penal colonies, like Australia, send the libs to them and let us have our country back!

Liberals founded this country. We've put up with the nonsense of conservatives claiming this nation as their own for too long.

ROFL. Sure they were liberals. The original small government politicians were liberals. Youre a fucking joke.

Thomas Jefferson was a liberal. He only wrote the Declaration and served as POTUS. The Federalists were in favor of a strong central government, the reason for doing away with the Articles of Confederation.

The political conservatives of the period were called Tories and were by and large british loyalists not people who were involved in founding this nation.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

Post #: 31

RE: Libertarians to build their own countries - 8/16/2011 8:17:19 PM

NeedToUseYou

Posts: 2297
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From: None of your business
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Employment for the first ones wouldn't be a problem.

I mean it doesn't take half a second to realize several businesses even some on this thread.

1. Internet companies. The guy donating the money sold paypal, owns part of facebook, hrrmmmm, let's think two seconds about what kind of jobs would probably be prevelant on the first one of these. HRMMMMMMM.... Really hard.....

2. Someone else said prisons, while I doubt that would be the first, it would work pretty good.

3. Fishing.... Oh, I don't know you are in the middle of the ocean, I'm sure they'll just sit there and starve..... LOL.

4. Unique Tourism.... Hrmmm, this one could generate billions, let's say you started one of these and made drugs legal. Drug tourism? I'm not saying I'd want to live on that colony, but it'd work. Or a legalized prostitution one, where all the women where 100% clean, and all visitors required thorough screening for disease and it was 100% security monitored for safety.

Anyway, I could think of more, some less and some more practical or palatable.

The only real problem with these, is the ability to actually construct one at reasonable cost, and the hostility from present nations.

But I'm sure if you went to some poor ass country and pre negotiated recognition, and brought a 1000 non-violent multi-millionaires to live offshore, that simply wanted to tap on a keyboard on their little self built floating nation, a suitable location could be found.

As far as it goes, I could work in the middle of the ocean as long as I had internet access and a 100 watts of power to run a laptop, there are millions of people that can work from anywhere.

Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if one of these eventually gets started, and most likely it will be stocked full of internet geeks, as really they just need electricity, a fiber cable laid, and well, they can work away, and as long as the neighboring country recognizes their status, they'd be able to trade for regular shit, like fuel, varied food, whatever.

If I had a billion dollars I probably would drop 10 million for a nice little 100 x 50 slice of freedom on a floating island filled with other internet/technology minded people, I think the results could be surprising. Why not.

(in reply to Politesub53)

Post #: 32

RE: Libertarians to build their own countries - 8/16/2011 8:44:08 PM

Edwynn

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~FR~

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/silicon-valley-billionaire-funding-creation-artificial-libertarian-islands-140840896.html

- Details says the experiment would be "a kind of floating petri dish for implementing policies that libertarians, stymied by indifference at the voting booths, have been unable to advance: no welfare, looser building codes, no minimum wage, and few restrictions on weapons." -

Oh yeah. Moving to a very small and confined artificial island inhabited by people who fear each other enough to feel the need for unrestricted weaponry certainly sounds appealing.

< Message edited by Edwynn -- 8/16/2011 8:55:45 PM >

(in reply to NeedToUseYou)

Post #: 33

RE: Libertarians to build their own countries - 8/16/2011 10:08:26 PM

NeedToUseYou

Posts: 2297
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

~FR~

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/silicon-valley-billionaire-funding-creation-artificial-libertarian-islands-140840896.html

- Details says the experiment would be "a kind of floating petri dish for implementing policies that libertarians, stymied by indifference at the voting booths, have been unable to advance: no welfare, looser building codes, no minimum wage, and few restrictions on weapons." -

Oh yeah. Moving to a very small and confined artificial island inhabited by people who fear each other enough to feel the need for unrestricted weaponry certainly sounds appealing.

Owning a weapon doesn't mean you fear your neighbors, that's just stupid. Hell, I don't live on an island, I don't fear my neighbors, but some strange drug addict, or criminal may try to come in my house to take my stuff or whatnot, same on an island, hell some pirate wannabees might think a bunch of computer nerds might just hand over millions if flashed a weapon.

Anyway, I wouldn't have a problem with everyone on the little island having a gun. It wouldn't bother me at all.

Anyone in the US can get a gun, law or no law, the US is effectively already a 100% armed society for those that want a weapon, why would it make any difference at all.

(in reply to Edwynn)

Post #: 34

RE: Libertarians to build their own countries - 8/16/2011 11:02:32 PM

Edwynn

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Perhaps you are missing out on the actual philosophical/social potential presented here. Peple of somewhat like minds, etc.

But as you say, the country we live in now is armed to the teeth by those that want to be. But not by all, in case that might have escaped notice.

I suppose I'm missing out myself on why one would consider it a 'dream place' where one still considers it necessary to be armed against neighbors, especially very close neighbors such as would be in this situation.

I don't see the motivation for moving from one location to another to be in that same situation, but even more condensed and saturated.

< Message edited by Edwynn -- 8/16/2011 11:20:39 PM >

(in reply to NeedToUseYou)

Post #: 35

RE: Libertarians to build their own countries - 8/16/2011 11:30:47 PM

provfivetine

Posts: 410
Joined: 2/17/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Thomas Jefferson was a liberal. He only wrote the Declaration and served as POTUS. The Federalists were in favor of a strong central government, the reason for doing away with the Articles of Confederation.

The political conservatives of the period were called Tories and were by and large british loyalists not people who were involved in founding this nation.

Except that Thomas Jefferson was not a Federalist and didn't even sign the Constitution. Jefferson may have been a 'classical liberal' but the term 'liberal' has the exact opposite meaning today as it did in the 18th Century. Liberals in the 18th Century are equivalent to modern day libertarians; the founders were not social democrats - none of them were. Even the big government Federalists would have laughed at the very idea of democracy. That's why they spoke badly of it and created a republic instead.

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 36

RE: Libertarians to build their own countries - 8/16/2011 11:35:14 PM

Termyn8or

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"I tink as soon as there is anything of value at these beyond the reach of laws islands then enterprising entrepenuers wil acquire these islands in an extremely hostile manner. "

That's pretty much what has happened so far.

T^T

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 37

RE: Libertarians to build their own countries - 8/16/2011 11:52:04 PM

Edwynn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: provfivetine

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Thomas Jefferson was a liberal. He only wrote the Declaration and served as POTUS. The Federalists were in favor of a strong central government, the reason for doing away with the Articles of Confederation.

The political conservatives of the period were called Tories and were by and large british loyalists not people who were involved in founding this nation.

Except that Thomas Jefferson was not a Federalist and didn't even sign the Constitution.

A hint, here;

DK was not claiming that Jefferson was a Federalist. He was presenting the Federalists as in opposition to Jefferson (actual fact of the case). Sorry you missed that.

However, you are correct in pointing out that the claim by DK that Jefferson was a 'liberal' in any sense at all is meaningless also.

There was no such thing resembling either 'liberals' or 'libertarians' in the 18th century, the latter being a contemporary fabrication by way of the government-teat-suckling Koch brothers'-founded Cato Institute, Heritage Foundation, et. al.

Jefferson was not very economically adept, and certainly not very forward-looking, arguing for an agriculturally based economy, but rightfully wary of the power that banks could have over government and society.

Alexander Hamilton, the Federalist, was certainly more economically adept, and more alert to new economic opportunities, but favored the private control over government that his banking system involved which Jefferson adamantly opposed, for that very reason.

Not so simple here, is it?

< Message edited by Edwynn -- 8/17/2011 12:34:03 AM >

(in reply to provfivetine)

Post #: 38

RE: Libertarians to build their own countries - 8/17/2011 4:35:54 AM

Moonhead

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In fact, the situation's odder than that: until the term was co-opted by people who've read too much Ayn Rand and Robert Heinlein, "libertarian" was a blanket term for pretty much any kind of liberal, leftist or social reformer. It's used in that sense in George Orwell's essays, to pick the most obvious example.

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(in reply to Edwynn)

Post #: 39

RE: Libertarians to build their own countries - 8/17/2011 5:22:11 AM

Edwynn

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I just look forward to some future time when we can be arguing about the Libertine vs. Hedonist parties.

But in any case, my somewhat simplistic understanding of the origination of the term 'liberal' as first used in Europe referred to the early industrialists and some of the mercantile folks, i.e., economic liberalism that was trying to wrest control from the monarchy and the landed gentry & their seeming permanence in the House of Lords' stronghold over all things economic.

Not to say that the more-than-two party systems of Europe are the greatest wonder in the world, but the black-white situation in the US, with no understanding that there exist other ideological, regulatory, economic, tax structure, health system regimes, not to mention ignorance of our own history in that regard, is getting to be quite a yawner here.

Jefferson ran on the somewhat anti-federalist Democratic-Republican ticket, in opposition to the US Whig party of the time. And no, don't ask me what a somewhat anti-monarchist Whig party was ever doing in post-independence US to begin with.

< Message edited by Edwynn -- 8/17/2011 5:35:37 AM >

(in reply to Moonhead)

Post #: 40

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