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RE: Amnesty By Fiat - 8/19/2011 10:03:18 AM   
housesub4you


Posts: 1879
Joined: 4/2/2008
Status: offline 		Of course this type of shit has been going on since 1980, gee Corporations taking advantage of our laws to hire cheap labor

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/foreign-students-walk-off-hershey-factory-job-protest-214310205.html


You see these ads all the time, it's great for corp profits, sucks for the workers

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RE: Amnesty By Fiat - 8/19/2011 10:14:59 AM   
StrangerThan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: flcouple2009

It seems all the republicans want to do is spend money.

Build a fence, more guards, more border patrol, spend spend spend

Things like the I-9 audits are certainly more cost effective.  Crack down on the people who hire them.  Increase the fines and make repeat offenses criminal with jail time.  When there are no jobs they will go home.




It would be more cost effective if you didn't need border security anyway. Aside from the pesky workers and just-wanna-live-there's, there are some elements in the world who would greatly enjoy the US being much more open. Not just talking about militant types there, but drug cartels, gun runners, people runners, you know.

The issue isn't just sending them home either. It's creating a way, a manageable and enforceable way of providing access, tracking, taxing and eliminating the need for amnesty every few years as opposed to... what we have now which is none of the above and an administration that fights any attempt to regulate traffic across the border.




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RE: Amnesty By Fiat - 8/19/2011 10:22:04 AM   
flcouple2009


Posts: 2784
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Status: offline 		Nice try,  but no

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RE: Amnesty By Fiat - 8/19/2011 10:25:54 AM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline 		They dont like the deal, dont fucking take it. European seasonal workers come to resort areas for minimum wage all the time, just for a working vacation.

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RE: Amnesty By Fiat - 8/19/2011 10:31:07 AM   
flcouple2009


Posts: 2784
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Status: offline 		Which is it?  The Europeans are Socialist and we shouldn't do anything the way they do, or we should do things the way they do?

Your brain on another of those "non working vacations"?


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RE: Amnesty By Fiat - 8/19/2011 10:35:30 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		Oh, no, no, no, no.....you have wilbur-trotsky all wrong, he loves the principles of spanish communists.



< Message edited by mnottertail -- 8/19/2011 10:36:01 AM >

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RE: Amnesty By Fiat - 8/19/2011 11:12:50 AM   
StrangerThan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: flcouple2009

Nice try,  but no


No what? You don't want border security? You don't want any control over the problem we have now? You don't want a system that works?

No?

You just want to fine employers? No what?


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RE: Amnesty By Fiat - 8/19/2011 11:14:20 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

What wrong would that be? tHE SITUATION IN THIS FUCKING COUNTRY since before the civil war has been to let these people in to provide cheap labor to agrarian corporations.

Texas refused to enforce these laws, they said it would wreck their economy.
California? Arizona? (WTF up there)?

Who is asswiping and pandering to this?

Look simple fucking deal. We know where exactly the fuck illegal aliens are. Raid the corporations, shut them down, fine the fucking shit out of them throw them in jail, this 'problem' will be solved; what is it, friday? BY THE END OF THE WEEK.

Whine cry wring your fuckin hands and gnash your fuckin teeth, what can little old me do?

Quit buying lettuce from Watsonville California.

Then figure out who the fuck you are going to get to work in the Turkey processing plants in Pelican Rapids Minnesota.

You got a nice hat, keep the sun off you a little, tell me, is it true that a year from now you are going to be chopping lettuce heads?


So, create a system that works. One that provides quick, easy background checks and work visas. Secure the border, make the process actually work, create a work permit or visa that allows entry, punish those who don't comply with deportation. Allow anyone currently in the country illegally to apply for one without having to leave the country. Prosecute or deport those who don't.

Track and tax those who do.




All of that exists except enforcement.

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RE: Amnesty By Fiat - 8/19/2011 11:21:18 AM   
flcouple2009


Posts: 2784
Joined: 1/8/2009
Status: offline 		no to your whole make believe post

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RE: Amnesty By Fiat - 8/19/2011 12:54:19 PM   
StrangerThan


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Joined: 4/25/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: flcouple2009

no to your whole make believe post


I suppose that's why we're on opposing sides then, because I feel the same about your sit on my ass attitude about it.


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RE: Amnesty By Fiat - 8/19/2011 12:58:02 PM   
HannahLynHeather


Posts: 2950
Joined: 4/4/2011
From: where it's at
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quote:

So, create a system that works.
yea. shut down the immigration department altogether, open the fucking borders, and let people get on with living.
simple, easy, morally correct, and saves tons of money as well. a win all around.

as to the op? good fucking job. doing the right thing regardless of what the law says. about fucking time i say.


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RE: Amnesty By Fiat - 8/19/2011 1:00:24 PM   
flcouple2009


Posts: 2784
Joined: 1/8/2009
Status: offline 		Oh yes because by all means saying go after the people who employ illegals with ever stiffer penalties means "sit on my ass and do nothing".

When there are no jobs because the cost to hire is to great the problem takes care of itself.

I know those on the right do not like that.  They love watching those ICE raids in the street and clamoring about armed guards on the border who should "shoot to kill"


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RE: Amnesty By Fiat - 8/19/2011 1:51:23 PM   
StrangerThan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: flcouple2009

Oh yes because by all means saying go after the people who employ illegals with ever stiffer penalties means "sit on my ass and do nothing".

When there are no jobs because the cost to hire is to great the problem takes care of itself.

I know those on the right do not like that.  They love watching those ICE raids in the street and clamoring about armed guards on the border who should "shoot to kill"



Bullshit.

You want to target companies. Fine. I'm with you. That doesn't alleviate the problem of having a porous border in the first place. Nor does it address the fact that many of these folks aren't working for large corporations.

The system we have in place right now does not work. It can't with a border that's not secure. It can't when Obama goes ballistic over anyone trying to enforce the law. It can't when the federal government picks and chooses who it wants to enforce law against. It can't when a good part of that decision is based upon politics and votes.

Even so, curing the problem isn't simply running them home. They come here for a reason, and for many, part of that reason is to feed and clothe those they left behind. Remittances are such they comprise significant numbers of the GDP in many countries south of the border - one somewhere around 25 percent if I remember right.


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RE: Amnesty By Fiat - 8/19/2011 1:56:12 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		If there are no jobs because the companies wont hire them under any circumstances you could line up greyhound double deckers side by side along the border beg them to come........and nothing would happen...

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RE: Amnesty By Fiat - 8/19/2011 2:00:24 PM   
StrangerThan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

If there are no jobs because the companies wont hire them under any circumstances you could line up greyhound double deckers side by side along the border beg them to come........and nothing would happen...


The workers won't. The criminals still will. So let's create a situation where the good people stay home and the bad people come here.


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RE: Amnesty By Fiat - 8/19/2011 2:36:27 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Now we are floating off into hyperbole, and I am going to need a fuck of a lot more than raging yellow journalism headlines or joe the plumber style anecdote.

I am going to need to see credible stats on illegals and crime. Not seen it yet anywhere.

I seen inductive ad hoc it must be sorta if you buy the assumption stats, but I do not buy the assumptions...

so, if the easily recognizable hispanics were reduced dramatically due to no work, wouldnt that make these evil vatos sort of stick out like a sore thumb, ese?

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RE: Amnesty By Fiat - 8/19/2011 4:39:58 PM   
DomKen


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Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

If there are no jobs because the companies wont hire them under any circumstances you could line up greyhound double deckers side by side along the border beg them to come........and nothing would happen...


The workers won't. The criminals still will. So let's create a situation where the good people stay home and the bad people come here.


And if the economic migrants weren't trying to cross in such large numbers we could police the border with the manpower we now have.

It's really pretty simple, if the penalties for hiring illegals is stiff enough and enforcement common enough that the demand for cheap illegal labor dries up the border will be safer and we will save money in the long run.


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RE: Amnesty By Fiat - 8/19/2011 4:42:36 PM   
FatDomDaddy


Posts: 3183
Joined: 1/31/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail[
Perhaps you missed Ws signing statements,


Bush did it Bush did it!!!!

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RE: Amnesty By Fiat - 8/19/2011 5:18:50 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Fuck all of this,I have a few questions for strangerthan,Fatdom,and sanity....do you three not understand that there are indeed finite resources available to the Justice Dept,that there are finite sources available to the justice system itself,at all levels and jusistictions?
If you concede that, isn't it right and proper for the administration to prioritize missions? So we are okay there,right? You three shining lights do realize that decisions have to be made.....right?
All of that being rather obvious it would seem that the three of you have issues with the Obama Administration deciding to focus,more fully ,their resources on criminals and otherwise undesirables.....rather than long term,service member,college student,wife of a serving soldier.One would have to wonder why you three would prefer they spend their time and resources on getting rid of some soldiers wife or husband.....rather than a drug dealer.
Whose side are you guys on?

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RE: Amnesty By Fiat - 8/19/2011 5:47:18 PM   
StrangerThan


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Joined: 4/25/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Fuck all of this,I have a few questions for strangerthan,Fatdom,and sanity....do you three not understand that there are indeed finite resources available to the Justice Dept,that there are finite sources available to the justice system itself,at all levels and jusistictions?
If you concede that, isn't it right and proper for the administration to prioritize missions? So we are okay there,right? You three shining lights do realize that decisions have to be made.....right?
All of that being rather obvious it would seem that the three of you have issues with the Obama Administration deciding to focus,more fully ,their resources on criminals and otherwise undesirables.....rather than long term,service member,college student,wife of a serving soldier.One would have to wonder why you three would prefer they spend their time and resources on getting rid of some soldiers wife or husband.....rather than a drug dealer.
Whose side are you guys on?


Ok bright star, let's focus on not fixing the problem. Let's focus on leaving 10.5 million in place while we hunt out the .5 that are criminals and act like we've done something grand. The thing is, you don't want the problem fixed. You'd rather whine about what you can't do. It IS fixable. And it's not rocket science.

So you want to hunt criminals out of a never ending stream. Secure the fucking border. Absolutely nothing you do has a chance of making a dent until you do that. And as far as costs go, quit trying to stop every state who has a problem with it from doing something about it. If you're not going to fix it, get out of the friggin way.


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Profile   Post #: 40
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