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RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of mon... - 8/20/2011 9:45:23 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Im not saying there arent people on welfare who use.  I am saying false positives are a bitch and this imperfect system isnt the answer.

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RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of mon... - 8/20/2011 10:04:31 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

And then when they do get social security, they are expected to pay back the welfare funds they'd received.

Exactly.  No one wants to discuss that part.  All those people who are "mooching" off the system end up having to pay back the system that is fucking them over to begin with.



Only if the SS is retroactive. Welfare has limits on income, if it turns out you had that income then of course it should be paid back.

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RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of mon... - 8/20/2011 10:06:39 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		SS is retro to the date of application  Nor do I think anyone should sit back and collect welfare and not pay it back when they collect a settlement from other sources.

What bites is hearing others scream about the so called "moochers" who are, in fact, people who have to pay back the state when they win their cases.


_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of mon... - 8/20/2011 10:10:54 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

SS is retro to the date of application 


not always, but thats irrelevant. And I havent heard anyone call people who are legitimately unable to work moochers. thats your constant strawman.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
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to the barking of the dogfox,
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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of mon... - 8/20/2011 10:19:03 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Take a look back at the welfare threads willbe and refresh your memory.  If you cant be honest, this discussion is over.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of mon... - 8/20/2011 10:21:04 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Take a look back at the welfare threads willbe and refresh your memory.  If you cant be honest, this discussion is over.


Not worth my time. I dont remember seeing any, I do remember you strawmanning about it often.

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of mon... - 8/20/2011 10:34:49 PM   
DeviantlyD


Posts: 4375
Joined: 5/26/2007
From: Hawai`i
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Im not saying there arent people on welfare who use.  I am saying false positives are a bitch and this imperfect system isnt the answer.



False positives aren't that frequent, although I can agree an imperfect system isn't the answer....but what is? The unanswerable question remains.

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of mon... - 8/20/2011 10:40:18 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Take a look back at the welfare threads willbe and refresh your memory.  If you cant be honest, this discussion is over.


Not worth my time. I dont remember seeing any, I do remember you strawmanning about it often.


You often have a selective memory.  and a twisted definition of strawmanning.


_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of mon... - 8/20/2011 11:01:09 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Im not saying there arent people on welfare who use.  I am saying false positives are a bitch and this imperfect system isnt the answer.



False positives aren't that frequent, although I can agree an imperfect system isn't the answer....but what is? The unanswerable question remains.


False positives can show up in 1 to 2.5 percent of urine samples.  Multiply that by how many people are on welfare.  Seems like a small amount when speaking statistically.



_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DeviantlyD)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of mon... - 8/20/2011 11:04:01 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Im not saying there arent people on welfare who use.  I am saying false positives are a bitch and this imperfect system isnt the answer.



False positives aren't that frequent, although I can agree an imperfect system isn't the answer....but what is? The unanswerable question remains.


False positives can show up in 1 to 2.5 percent of urine samples.  Multiply that by how many people are on welfare.  Seems like a small amount when speaking statistically.




It is a small amount. False positive? Get retested. BFD


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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of mon... - 8/20/2011 11:09:40 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		It is a BFD else the states wouldnt be pushing for it to lower their welfare numbers.

It would be a BFD if you were out to get a loan and there was a computer error that denied 1 - 2.5% of the applicants erroneously.


_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of mon... - 8/20/2011 11:27:53 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

It is a BFD else the states wouldnt be pushing for it to lower their welfare numbers.

It would be a BFD if you were out to get a loan and there was a computer error that denied 1 - 2.5% of the applicants erroneously.



Wow you are really on a dumb roll. I said BFD to false positives. What states exactly are pushing for those?

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Hear the lark
and harken
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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of mon... - 8/20/2011 11:36:01 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Why shouldnt false positives be a big deal?  The appeals process alone will cost alot of money... money someone who is filing for welfare and being denied based upon a false reading doesnt have.

Of course its a big deal.


_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of mon... - 8/20/2011 11:38:13 PM   
DeviantlyD


Posts: 4375
Joined: 5/26/2007
From: Hawai`i
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Im not saying there arent people on welfare who use.  I am saying false positives are a bitch and this imperfect system isnt the answer.



False positives aren't that frequent, although I can agree an imperfect system isn't the answer....but what is? The unanswerable question remains.


False positives can show up in 1 to 2.5 percent of urine samples.  Multiply that by how many people are on welfare.  Seems like a small amount when speaking statistically.




But it would be irresponsible to accept the result of a screening tool as an absolute. I would imagine they would have to verify the positives.

And I do know the false positive rate varies by analyte and by the test method used. So....

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of mon... - 8/20/2011 11:53:27 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Why shouldnt false positives be a big deal?  The appeals process alone will cost alot of money... money someone who is filing for welfare and being denied based upon a false reading doesnt have.

Of course its a big deal.



Appeals process costs a lot of money? You reapply and get retested. Costs nothing if it was actually a false positive.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of mon... - 8/21/2011 12:02:38 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Florida is out of pocket, remember?  And, yes, the appeals process does cost money... money they would be receiving if the test had been accurate.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of mon... - 8/21/2011 12:14:34 AM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Im not saying there arent people on welfare who use.  I am saying false positives are a bitch and this imperfect system isnt the answer.



False positives aren't that frequent, although I can agree an imperfect system isn't the answer....but what is? The unanswerable question remains.


False positives can show up in 1 to 2.5 percent of urine samples.  Multiply that by how many people are on welfare.  Seems like a small amount when speaking statistically.




But it would be irresponsible to accept the result of a screening tool as an absolute. I would imagine they would have to verify the positives.

And I do know the false positive rate varies by analyte and by the test method used. So....
Yes, it IS irresponsible, De... But it has been (and I suspect still is) done by those who have absolutely NO understanding of the chemistry involved (such as judges, or caseworkers, or what have you). I know it also costs (at retail)_around $200USD for a GC/MassSpec analysis, assuming enough of the original sample is left. I imagine the positives would be taken at face value because of the cost (like welfare recipients have $200 sitting around BEFORE they get on welfare... good thinking, ratfuckers) and the inconvenience/extra cost to the State, if it were a false positive.

It truly IS an amazingly stupid idea, which sounds really good to ratfuckers (Hey! We're DOING something about all those welfare Cadillacs! (code for poor black folks) Vote for Me! (White People!))


_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of mon... - 8/21/2011 12:14:47 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		FR

You fucking people.........

If you are on welfare and a friend of yours stops over and smokes a joint with you, you now live under a bridge.

If you are a cab driver and a friend of yours stops over and smokes a joint with you, you are now on welfare.

If you are a researcher at a university and a friend of yours stops over and smokes a joint with you, you are now a cab driver.

This is all about weed. You can do almost any drug, and I mean hard drugs, and they are out of your system really fast. The only thing they can really detect is weed. So it is a cmpaign against weed, plain and simple. Unless you want to do hair tests. And those ain't $35. Yeah, just make welfare recipients pay out of pocket the $200 for the hair test, I'm sure they can spare it.

Go fuck yourself.

(I don't mean you here I mean the system)

T^T

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of mon... - 8/21/2011 12:19:06 AM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Florida is out of pocket, remember?  And, yes, the appeals process does cost money... money they would be receiving if the test had been accurate.


It gets reimbursed if you pass it, so its only out of pocket if youre trying to beat it. And false positives are granted retroactively to the original application.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of mon... - 8/21/2011 12:22:44 AM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

FR

You fucking people.........

If you are on welfare and a friend of yours stops over and smokes a joint with you, you now live under a bridge.

If you are a cab driver and a friend of yours stops over and smokes a joint with you, you are now on welfare.

If you are a researcher at a university and a friend of yours stops over and smokes a joint with you, you are now a cab driver.

This is all about weed. You can do almost any drug, and I mean hard drugs, and they are out of your system really fast. The only thing they can really detect is weed. So it is a cmpaign against weed, plain and simple. Unless you want to do hair tests. And those ain't $35. Yeah, just make welfare recipients pay out of pocket the $200 for the hair test, I'm sure they can spare it.

Go fuck yourself.

(I don't mean you here I mean the system)

T^T


Any drug can easily be detected 2-5 days after using it. Thats plenty of time for the hard core users they are most concerned about.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
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to the barking of the dogfox,
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Profile   Post #: 40
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