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RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of mon... - 8/21/2011 12:23:25 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Yeah, that retroactive money is fucking great when they shut your electricity off and there is an $80 charge to get it turned back on.

Oh yeah, it's fair.

T^T

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of mon... - 8/21/2011 12:29:13 AM   
DeviantlyD


Posts: 4375
Joined: 5/26/2007
From: Hawai`i
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

This is all about weed. You can do almost any drug, and I mean hard drugs, and they are out of your system really fast. The only thing they can really detect is weed.

T^T


That is incorrect. There are a lot of factors determining how long any form of drug of abuse will stay in the system. Yes, some can be evacuated fairly quickly, but not all. I don't know why you continue to perpetuate misinformation.

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RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of mon... - 8/21/2011 12:30:20 AM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Yeah, that retroactive money is fucking great when they shut your electricity off and there is an $80 charge to get it turned back on.

Oh yeah, it's fair.

T^T


Find a state that doesnt have shutoff protection for low income households.

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and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
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RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of mon... - 8/21/2011 12:38:57 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		"That is incorrect. There are a lot of factors determining how long any form of drug of abuse will stay in the system. Yes, some can be evacuated fairly quickly, but not all. I don't know why you continue to perpetuate misinformation"

Huh ? Tell me one other fucking drug than pot that can be detected in urine after three fucking weeks. THERE ARE NONE.

Name ONE, other than some asshole prescription drug that I would never fucking take anyway.

T^T

(in reply to DeviantlyD)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of mon... - 8/21/2011 12:43:53 AM   
DeviantlyD


Posts: 4375
Joined: 5/26/2007
From: Hawai`i
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"That is incorrect. There are a lot of factors determining how long any form of drug of abuse will stay in the system. Yes, some can be evacuated fairly quickly, but not all. I don't know why you continue to perpetuate misinformation"

Huh ? Tell me one other fucking drug than pot that can be detected in urine after three fucking weeks. THERE ARE NONE.

Name ONE, other than some asshole prescription drug that I would never fucking take anyway.

T^T


Oh, so we're talking about you? *LOL* And here I thought the topic of this thread was welfare recipients. I know you like to think it's all about you, but it isn't. ;)

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RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of mon... - 8/21/2011 1:42:55 AM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


Any drug can easily be detected 2-5 days after using it. Thats plenty of time for the hard core users they are most concerned about.

You are wrong (as usual). Term is right.

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of mon... - 8/21/2011 1:49:02 AM   
DeviantlyD


Posts: 4375
Joined: 5/26/2007
From: Hawai`i
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


Any drug can easily be detected 2-5 days after using it. Thats plenty of time for the hard core users they are most concerned about.

You are wrong (as usual). Term is right.


He isn't right.

This includes the drugs that are typically tested as DOA (drugs of abuse), though by no means are they all.

As an added caveat, body mass, health status, metabolism, length of use, etc. are factors that WILL affect how long a drug stays in the body.

< Message edited by DeviantlyD -- 8/21/2011 1:53:21 AM >

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RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of mon... - 8/21/2011 2:20:52 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Oh, another fucking expert, one who has never had any experience. Don't tell me, it shows.

You could say "I've drug tested thousands of people" but that means shit, I know the kind of people you tested. Who did what and when. They can't find coke or opiates in about three four days. They don't even test for lysergic, which includes LSD and mesc. They test for pot because that is how they bust you. The idea is whether or not you OBEY them. If you got pot in your piss you did not OBEY them.

You might have done it two weeks ago, they don't care. You didn't OBEY them. That is all they care about.

You were saying ?

T^T

(in reply to DeviantlyD)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of mon... - 8/21/2011 2:24:53 AM   
DeviantlyD


Posts: 4375
Joined: 5/26/2007
From: Hawai`i
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Oh, another fucking expert, one who has never had any experience. Don't tell me, it shows.

You could say "I've drug tested thousands of people" but that means shit, I know the kind of people you tested. Who did what and when. They can't find coke or opiates in about three four days. They don't even test for lysergic, which includes LSD and mesc. They test for pot because that is how they bust you. The idea is whether or not you OBEY them. If you got pot in your piss you did not OBEY them.

You might have done it two weeks ago, they don't care. You didn't OBEY them. That is all they care about.

You were saying ?

T^T


Your post makes no sense.

I think you're paranoid....by the clinical definition of the word.

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of mon... - 8/21/2011 2:50:47 AM   
lobodomslavery


Posts: 2477
Joined: 1/17/2008
Status: offline 		This is so discriminatory its untrue. Instead of targetting the victims of the problem, welfare applicants and the low paid, target the source of the problem, leave tax rates unchanged for those between $20,000 and $1 million euro per year and target those earning over $1 million euro per year on a sliding scale of increased taxes say those on $1 million euro per year pay 10% those on $2 -10 million per year pay 20% extra and those on over 10 million per year pay 50% extra, that would be fairer , but then again the authorities will always allow the super rich to get off scott free , you only have to look at how Wendi Deng, a privileged wife was treated and the News of the World editor was treated, ie pretty much got off and how for example young unemployed people are treated to see the difference in how society views people, with say different eyes, the struggling are punished, the rich no matter what they do are rewarded or at least exonerated, sure its ok we will all pay for their mistakes , they dont have to be accountable to anyone, and Im talking here about the top bankers who speculated recklessly not the desk merchants, oh no, its their bosses im talking about, the bankers sitting at the desk and earning a modest salary, they are not the ones im talking about, its their bosses
kevin

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RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of mon... - 8/21/2011 2:51:25 AM   
FantasyKisses


Posts: 69
Joined: 8/19/2011
Status: offline 		I live in a welfare town, quite literally. Social Security, TANF, and General Assistance are responsible for 'paying' the bulk of the income in this area. Far more people receive welfare of some sort than hold jobs. This is not conjecture, this comes from multiple demographic studies by a variety of sources, both government and non.

I am also a disabled American who used to be a tax payer. I had an industrial accident, received nothing from Worker's Comp and was wheelchair-bound for some time before teaching myself how to walk again out of necessity. Now that I can walk unassisted (except in the winter, but hey, it snows here), I am trying to get retrained because I cannot go back into my work sector. I believe in being a tax payer and employed. I believe that welfare, in all forms should be limited (though I think there should be added assistance for those people who have no children and are trying to get back to work). I don't believe that people should be able to make a career out of welfare and that the qualifications for things like mental health should be restricted further because mental health diagnosis and care is out of control in this country. (If you were to look at further demographics, you'd notice that most of the residents in my town are bipolar. Which turns a legitimate mental health condition into a freakin' epidemic.)

Most of the people on welfare -post edit: in my town- are on drugs. That has also been proven by government and independent studies. (While self-answered questionnaires may indeed be skewed, both of the health groups here release information as part of their HIPAA consent forms.) I know first hand that drug use here is common in the mental health districts, and that people go so far as to let their rent slide in order to purchase drugs with welfare money and that a lot of people will sell their prescriptions for illegal drugs. (Btw, I'm also a criminal justice student and politically active.)

That being said, I am enthusiastically all for drug testing and I think there should be a federal law that requires pharmacies to report to PCPs. I think there needs to be more pro-social training courses for people as well, such as cooking classes, comparative shopping lessons, and gardening classes for those on food stamps. --Secondary Post Edit: I also think junk food and energy drinks should be banned from the program because it is not uncommon to go into a convenience store and see an energy drink with a hand written sign below it that proudly proclaims "foodstampable". (Why is that even a word???)-- I think that budgeting classes should be mandatory for people on any form of welfare, and that programs like Section 8 and energy assistance should pay landlords and utility companies directly instead of putting the money in the hands of the recipient. Drug testing results may be dependent on the type of drug used, length of time and tolerance to said drug, the person's body type and biology, however it can work for many cases including non-prescription medication abuse as many medications have a half life and build up in one's system.

Smoking pot may be the least offensive, but I do not think that people on welfare should be able to buy pot. Cigarettes, yes. They are legal for the moment. But I would also like to see alcohol (which is more of an epidemic as far as abused substances go) be put on the same chopping block as tobacco (and I'm a smoker). Then again, I think the manufacturing sector needs to be brought back to the US so we have jobs and can stop this so-called 'Cycle of Poverty' because too many people around the country see welfare as an answer.

< Message edited by FantasyKisses -- 8/21/2011 2:57:08 AM >

(in reply to DeviantlyD)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of mon... - 8/21/2011 2:53:20 AM   
lobodomslavery


Posts: 2477
Joined: 1/17/2008
Status: offline 		the top banker who i might add created a generation of welfare applicants through their recklessness which brought down the economy which turfed guiltless individuals out of jobs and allowed the top brass to stay as normal
kevin

(in reply to lobodomslavery)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of mon... - 8/21/2011 3:10:34 AM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Oh, another fucking expert, one who has never had any experience. Don't tell me, it shows.

You could say "I've drug tested thousands of people" but that means shit, I know the kind of people you tested. Who did what and when. They can't find coke or opiates in about three four days. They don't even test for lysergic, which includes LSD and mesc. They test for pot because that is how they bust you. The idea is whether or not you OBEY them. If you got pot in your piss you did not OBEY them.

You might have done it two weeks ago, they don't care. You didn't OBEY them. That is all they care about.

You were saying ?

T^T
Actually, Lysergic is related to the tryptamines, such as Psilocin (the active metabolite of Psilocybin, the only phosphoro-amine that I know of that is found in nature that is active in humans. Psilocin is listed as 4-hydroxy-DMT (dimethyl-tryptamine in TIHKaL and is a prodrug, much like heroin and codeine), DMT, and Serotonin.

Mescaline is a phenethylamine, much like MDMA ("X"), DOM (STP), and Speed (listed as "M", entry #96, 3,4,5 trimethoxy-phenethylamine, in PIHKaL (hint: google "Trichocereus" species (Peruvian Torch, San Pedro)

UDTs (urine) will not pick up most drugs afert 2-3 days; nor will blood tests. Hair testing is more sensitive, and will detect drug use during a longer period, but is uncommon. Sweat testing uses a collection patch, but has the same excretion identification constraints as UDTs. http://archives.drugabuse.gov/NIDA_Notes/NNVol10N5/Sweat.html

Hair testing is not done easily (see wilbur's post), nor is it inexpensive. To date, an immunoassay followed by confirmatory GC/MS testing is the Gold Standard.

As I mentioned elsewhere, I think Rifampin is helping me burn my oxycodone much more rapidly. I'll find out, as I had a UDT on Wednesday, and I had both oxy and rifampin the night prior.

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of mon... - 8/21/2011 6:43:36 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

programs like Section 8 and energy assistance should pay landlords and utility companies directly instead of putting the money in the hands of the recipient.


Im not so sure how much you know about the programs in Maine or elsewhere.  For instance, section 8 is paid directly to the landlord... even in your state.

A housing subsidy is paid to the landlord directly by the PHA on behalf of the participating family. The family then pays the difference between the actual rent charged by the landlord and the amount subsidized by the program. Under certain circumstances, if authorized by the PHA, a family may use its voucher to purchase a modest home.

http://www.maine.gov/dhhs/mh/Housing/section-8/eligibility.html

Energy assistance is handled the same way.  Why would you assume, then write as fact, things that are not true and easily verifiable as not being true?

quote:

however it can work for many cases including non-prescription medication abuse as many medications have a half life and build up in one's system.


Yeah that Advil is so addictive.



_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of mon... - 8/21/2011 7:22:27 AM   
flcouple2009


Posts: 2784
Joined: 1/8/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD
Those who have gone through pre-employment testing or random testing for their job would go through a chain of custody collection. So that is a different means of collection than what the welfare types have to do.


I see you've been attending the wilbur school of facts.  Just make up what you want.



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RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of mon... - 8/21/2011 7:31:29 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD

At 30 bucks a test, these aren't chain of custody testing methods. So anyone could bring in a "clean" urine to substitute for their own. I'm not saying that is what's happening, but I don't doubt it has happened.

Those who have gone through pre-employment testing or random testing for their job would go through a chain of custody collection. So that is a different means of collection than what the welfare types have to do.


What do you consider the difference in the testing?  Are you suggesting that a urine specimen collected at your place of employment would be collected differently than at a welfare office?

The chain of custody requires that from the moment the evidence is collected, every transfer of evidence from person to person be documented and that it be provable that nobody else could have accessed that evidence. It is best to keep the number of transfers as low as possible.

Are you suggesting welfare would allow other people to have access to that evidence?


_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DeviantlyD)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of mon... - 8/21/2011 8:22:48 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

No, they are imperfect tests given by imperfect testing means with the intent to deny people assistance.



And the intent of that denial is to impose Republican Sharia Law on the Sinners and Unbelievers...



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of mon... - 8/21/2011 4:21:37 PM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline


~FR~

OK, anybody here who thinks this is a scam to support the drug testing industry (which it most certainly is) are now welcome to tell us why such significant portion of you came out of the woodwork to inform us that you had no issue the with minimum wage workers fondling your grandmother's genitals (or mine's either), leaving the "legal" but actually occurring child molestation part of the equation out of it for the moment, in support of the likewise scam of the airport scanners (which it most certainly is).












< Message edited by Edwynn -- 8/21/2011 4:32:44 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of mon... - 8/22/2011 12:12:39 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		"I think you're paranoid....by the clinical definition of the word. "

You need a clinic. Let me try to explain this for you so even an idiot can understand. You can take your welfare check on the first of the month, spend it all, do cocaine, heroin, LSD, PCP and a shitload of other hard fucking drugs and when they test you on the tenth of the month you will test clean. However if your friend came over on the tenth of LAST month and smoked a joint with you you will test positive.

DO YOU UNDERFUCKINGSTAND ?

T^T

(in reply to DeviantlyD)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of mon... - 8/22/2011 5:51:08 AM   
DomYngBlk


Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Take a look back at the welfare threads willbe and refresh your memory.  If you cant be honest, this discussion is over.


Not worth my time. I dont remember seeing any, I do remember you strawmanning about it often.


You often have a selective memory.  and a twisted definition of strawmanning.



wilbur has never said anything negative about anyone at any given time tazzy. You have obviously miscontrued his words.....

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 60
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