RE: Genuinely puzzled (Full Version)

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Firebirdseeking -> RE: Genuinely puzzled (8/21/2011 7:54:35 PM)

Try expanding your vocabulary to vary somewhat from using the word fuck repeatedly. I think I was very clear that I am not trying to change anyone else's relationship here. I understand that many people like what they like and it is not necessarily what I would like. I think you need some anger management. You seem to get furious each time I post.




Firebirdseeking -> RE: Genuinely puzzled (8/21/2011 7:56:04 PM)

Thank you.



Firebirdseeking -> RE: Genuinely puzzled (8/21/2011 8:42:59 PM)

If the implication is that I am not submissive, I would caution you that you have little to no information about me. I spent years on this site, with wannabee "doms" telling me I am not submissive because I did not meet their definition of submissive, which might have meant I was unwilling to address some unknown yahoo, as "Sir", for example, and I could go on and on. I dont think submission is black and white, and I certainly dont think I have to fit anyone's definition of submissive any more than anyone else has to fit mine. I will say again: I did not post this to criticize anyone's sexual relationship. I was merely trying to understand my reactions to two circumstances that appeared on the surface to be very similar. Several of the posts here have helped me to do that. Thank you again.




NuevaVida -> RE: Genuinely puzzled (8/21/2011 10:07:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Firebirdseeking

am genuinely puzzled about some things I have found them throughout my readings here. An example: "I don't have to keep up. If he wants to fuck me, then he fucks me. It's not important whether I particularly feel like sex at the time or not. I'm not expected to feel hot or horny just because he does. I AM expected to accept being fucked when he wants to.
I don't do it out of love or a desire to serve, I do it because he's the boss, he wants to fuck and that's how our relationship is run."

Yep, this is sometimes the case with us.  Not always, but sometimes.  And totally cool with me.  I wouldn't want it any other way.

quote:


Years ago, I read that idiot John Gray's Mars and Venus in the Bedroom. In one of his chapters, he tries to make a point that sometimes men just want to fuck and not be "bothered" with "foreplay". He suggested that on such occasions, that the two people work it out, maybe cut a little deal where she goes and gets herself "ready", and then he just comes in and goes at it with her. (Next day she could get a nice backrub in exchange for getting fucked with no foreplay). Frankly, I felt furious that a man could not be "bothered" to take the time to insure that his female partner was stimulated, mentally, physically and emotionally. It struck a nerve with me, because it not only lacked in regard for the partner, but for me, it was a very poor model of what a man is, including, and especially, a dominant man. I am married to my dominant, and I cannot imagine him ever taking me without regard for how I feel.

I actually never bothered to read the book, but I've learned the gist of it from others. 

But I see it differently than you.  If we take the generalization that for the most part men just want to fuck, and for the most part women want foreplay and time spent...and then apply your notion that men are somehow assholes for wanting what they want and not catering to the woman to give her what she wants, then could it not be said that women are somehow assholes for wanting what they want and not catering to the man to give him what he wants?

Being that Gray isn't discussing D/s & M/s relationships, I see his proposal as a way of trying to strike a balance so that both parties get what they want - the men get their occasional "fuck without bother" and the women get their occasional "love-making with foreplay."   
quote:


So I find I am genuinely confused over what John Gray thought was OK, and with some of what is said here, and how it is accepted. How are they different??


I think the women here, myself included, who are sometimes fucked without foreplay or preparation ARE having their feelings taken into account.  Some of us need to be taken like that, and if he didn't, we'd feel we were missing out.  I need to know that he knows he can  undoubtedly walk up to me, push me down and fuck the hell out of me, whether I'm ready for it, whether I want it, whether I'm in the middle of something else, or not.  I love that he has that kind of freedom.  And then of course yes there's a hotness factor in it for me, but mostly I love knowing he has exactly what he wants. 

Conversely, he does so much to add to my overall happiness, and to the thriving of our relationship.  Of course he regards my feelings.  And I regard his, too.  So we both are getting what works for us.



chastityslaveFE -> RE: Genuinely puzzled (8/22/2011 1:47:16 AM)

Fast Reply. For me, it is fabulously objectifying to know that he can just use me for his pleasure, and because I enjoy feeling sexually objectified that causes a response that varies from white hot arousal to bemused acceptance. There is usually a feeling of being pleased that he wanted me, excited by his lust and then the feeling I most adore - walking round afterwards, feeling his cum soaking into my knickers, pussy tender and legs shaking from suppressed orgasm (we also practise orgasm denial). For me, there is no greater feeling of slavery, ownership and sexual objectification than this. As with most things that seem cruel in s&m, it's not that he doesn't care about my happiness, it's just that he knows I get more pleasure from being used and denied than I would from orgasms and lots of foreplay. Luckily this matches the way he gets his pleasure - from being controlling, denying and having sex on his terms, when and how he wants it without caring about my orgasm or whether or not I want sex. The difference between this and nonsense like Mars and Venus is that most vanilla women do not enjoy being used and sexually objectified and most have not consented to it. To do it to a submissive who enjoys it is very different from doing it to a vanilla woman because you are too lazy or self interested to participate in mutual pleasure xxx



sunshinemiss -> RE: Genuinely puzzled (8/22/2011 7:23:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Foreplay?

~goes off to ponder~


That be turning off the television and getting the spinach from between the teeth for some folk.  [;)]



LadyHibiscus -> RE: Genuinely puzzled (8/22/2011 8:09:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Foreplay?

~goes off to ponder~


That be turning off the television and getting the spinach from between the teeth for some folk.  [;)]



Oh I have a fabulous new sonic toothbrush, takes care of that in a jiffy! [:)]



kalikshama -> RE: Genuinely puzzled (8/22/2011 8:19:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

What's the fucking issue? It's not YOU that is being treated this way, so why the fuck should you care how others run THEIR personal relationships. It's none of your fucking business if another woman's man wants to just fuck her and she's ok with that.

Get off your fucking high horse and stop worrying about other people's relationships.


You may wish to reconsider posting details about your relationship on a public discussion board if you don't want comments/questions.

Since the OP was genuine and respectful in her question, I am curious as to why it struck such a nerve with you.







sunshinemiss -> RE: Genuinely puzzled (8/22/2011 9:01:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus


quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Foreplay?

~goes off to ponder~


That be turning off the television and getting the spinach from between the teeth for some folk.  [;)]



Oh I have a fabulous new sonic toothbrush, takes care of that in a jiffy! [:)]


You have a toothbrush that turns off the television?  Whoa! 



kalikshama -> RE: Genuinely puzzled (8/22/2011 9:19:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Foreplay?

~goes off to ponder~


That be turning off the television and getting the spinach from between the teeth for some folk.  [;)]

For my ex husband it was driving over the rumble strips on the highway.



Wolfiedom -> RE: Genuinely puzzled (8/22/2011 9:46:29 AM)

As far as the original post goes; I had that once and this was the best and the greatest I have had since.  She knew...what I wanted; how, when, why were not important she wanted me.  She was always aroused and wet.  So...yes, you can have this...and the psychology is a gift I have shared only with one person; sadly.

No I am not a control freak, but to have such a gift from a female sub is incredible and a credit to her.  Call it abuse, call it what ever you like; I know what we had together and it changed both of our lives in a good way.



susie -> RE: Genuinely puzzled (8/22/2011 10:00:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

I'm one of those people who is in a relationship with a Dom who takes what he wants when he wants, how he wants. It's what I agreed to when I became his slave. Yup, there are times when there's very little disregard for what I want but there are times when he gives a lot of regard for what I want. Just because he does what he wants doesn't mean he doesn't respect or care for me. If that were true I wouldn't be in a relationship with him. It just means that he's the boss and what he says goes. I knew that when I said I would be his slave.

As He likes to say "this is not a democracy".




Exactly. I know he respectsand loves me but I belong to him and what he says goes. I happen to love and respect him too. We discussed everything before we got together and I know what I was getting into.



agirl -> RE: Genuinely puzzled (8/23/2011 5:10:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Firebirdseeking

am genuinely puzzled about some things I have found them throughout my readings here. An example:

"I don't have to keep up. If he wants to fuck me, then he fucks me. It's not important whether I particularly feel like sex at the time or not. I'm not expected to feel hot or horny just because he does. I AM expected to accept being fucked when he wants to.
I don't do it out of love or a desire to serve, I do it because he's the boss, he wants to fuck and that's how our relationship is run."

Years ago, I read that idiot John Gray's Mars and Venus in the Bedroom. In one of his chapters, he tries to make a point that sometimes men just want to fuck and not be "bothered" with "foreplay". He suggested that on such occasions, that the two people work it out, maybe cut a little deal where she goes and gets herself "ready", and then he just comes in and goes at it with her. (Next day she could get a nice backrub in exchange for getting fucked with no foreplay). Frankly, I felt furious that a man could not be "bothered" to take the time to insure that his female partner was stimulated, mentally, physically and emotionally. It struck a nerve with me, because it not only lacked in regard for the partner, but for me, it was a very poor model of what a man is, including, and especially, a dominant man. I am married to my dominant, and I cannot imagine him ever taking me without regard for how I feel.

So I find I am genuinely confused over what John Gray thought was OK, and with some of what is said here, and how it is accepted. How are they different??


Ok, those are my words above in blue.

The book is one *scene*, everyone's relationship is another.

What's missing is the *oh SO many times when I have to suffer being satisfied and have to endure long periods of pleasure.....lol

Oh God, spare me the rules about foreplay.Spare me the rules about ANY of my sex life. I'm thankful that he just fucks me when I don't feel like it.

A) I have a contented bloke snoozing next to me .
B) I tend to be pretty spent myself, whether I *felt* like it or not, initially.
C) I can't be fagged with *who thinks what* about the very thing that seems to have made the two of us consistently hot for each other for years.
D) He gets tired too ;)

I can't insist that he fucks me when I am hot and bothered, but he can when he IS..........somehow this tends to work out because we both are rather horny humans and we both understand the way it affects us. I can't exactly proclaim to be a sexually UNsatisfied woman, even after years and years..........roooooooooooooooooaaaaaaaar

I've NEVER been taken without regard for how I feel, he's TOTALLY aware of how I feel........... he's just going to fuck me anyhow.

And in reverse, he can't exactly conjure up my passion for his cock out of nowhere.......I'm just not THAT horny.

None of this is currency. He can't buy me with the promise of a bloody back rub...He'll fuck me AND rub my sore shoulder. We don't have to be buying this stuff and we don't have to because there's not much I can't do without and not much he can't either.

agirl












SailingBum -> RE: Genuinely puzzled (8/23/2011 5:44:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Firebirdseeking

If the implication is that I am not submissive, I would caution you that you have little to no information about me. I spent years on this site, with wannabee "doms" telling me I am not submissive because I did not meet their definition of submissive, which might have meant I was unwilling to address some unknown yahoo, as "Sir", for example, and I could go on and on. I dont think submission is black and white, and I certainly dont think I have to fit anyone's definition of submissive any more than anyone else has to fit mine. I will say again: I did not post this to criticize anyone's sexual relationship. I was merely trying to understand my reactions to two circumstances that appeared on the surface to be very similar. Several of the posts here have helped me to do that. Thank you again.




The information that you posted here gives insight to you. If you were to ask 100 ppl what being a sub means you would get 100 different answers, however it would trend to doing what your told and it makes no difference if you want to or not.

With that said your unwillingness to have sex without foreplay <in a long term relationship> indicates your not what I consider a sub. It seems as tho quite a few ppl that have replied agree with me.

For some strange reason you equate foreplay with caring for the partner. One has nuttin to do with the other.

BadOne



Firebirdseeking -> RE: Genuinely puzzled (8/23/2011 6:56:53 PM)

I really am not concerned about whether you or anyone else here thinks I am a sub or slave or a master, mistress, domme, dominant or switch. I did not post with insecurities about who I am. I posted as I stated before, as trying to understand a reaction I had. A lot of assumptions could be made about others' preferences and willingness to do things as well, but I am not doing so.

If your definition of a sub is that s/he be willing to be fucked anywhere, anytime, anyhow without regard for anything that might be going on for (her) then ok fine, I do not meet your definition of sub. That does not mean I am not a sub. I just dont meet your definition, which BTW, I think is a shallow definition. Some people here think that if a woman speaks her mind, she is not a sub.

In that case, I am DEFININTELY not a sub. Because I surely speak my mind.



Firebirdseeking -> RE: Genuinely puzzled (8/23/2011 6:59:39 PM)

I hope you understand that I appreciate your post because it challenged my thoughts.



MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Genuinely puzzled (8/23/2011 10:14:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Firebirdseeking

...definition of a sub is that s/he be willing to be fucked anywhere, anytime, anyhow without regard for anything that might be going on for (her)



Maybe I missed something, but has anyone here added that bit about "without regard for anything that might be going on for her" -- or is that just your assumption of how this type of dynamic works?!!




Endivius -> RE: Genuinely puzzled (8/23/2011 10:44:23 PM)

I will surely fuck My slave/sub whenever I wish; I am not some one track minded tool who just wants a fuck toy. That's what the realdoll is for. It's all about what you expect to get from eachother. If you expect something from your D/S relationship that is not getting fullfilled and it can be physical, pschological, or emotional; then you and your D/S are not communicating properly, and it is time to do that. Even in a 24/7 you can still call a time out and say, look we need to talk.


You're interest in foreplay is almost strictly a physical desire/need. There are so many other aspects to a relationship than just the phsyical, even if the relationship is strictly about sex. Keep in mind that your conflict and insecurities on this matter have nothing to do with your partner's respect or care regarding your feelings. This is purely your own insecurity towards being used as purely a tool and nothing else from your D/S.

Some people like that kind of arrangement, others do not. if you are affraid of something in particular, maybe you should explore it more. Perhaps what you are really affraid of is what you might find out about your True Self. I have found from personal experience, that every time I was absolutely brutally honest to myself regarding anything, from guilt to glory that is when I saw myself for the first time in my Truest Form. Seeing yourself, no inhibitions, no fears, no barriers or emotional ties, just face the fear of all things inside yourself and let it rip will surprise you.



tazzygirl -> RE: Genuinely puzzled (8/23/2011 11:24:05 PM)

Im about to toss a monkey wrench into the works.

Define foreplay.

For every person who has posted to your thread, it could be different.

For me, it could be a soft smile, a slight glance, a whispered request, a touch to my back, coming home to a hot meal, being asked to give a foot rub....

Foreplay can encompass so many things... many of which do not require either person to be naked or touch.

Foreplay is what the couple decides it is.



Aynne88 -> RE: Genuinely puzzled (8/23/2011 11:35:56 PM)

I like it too...at times. However, I do not like feeling like my sole purpose is to be a hole for him to fuck. Submissive or not, I demand respect and if this were the norm I would walk.  



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