RE: Confronting Prejudice. (Full Version)

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Louve00 -> RE: Confronting Prejudice. (8/21/2011 12:12:51 PM)

I am not a racist either...and try hard to see "why" a person holds prejudice to a thing.  By no means does that mean I am exempt from prejudice, but I can realize they are my prejudices and try not to make that the elephant in the room, so to speak. 

And as to your reluctance to walk thru Harlem at night, as a result of personal experience.  I would not consider it prejudice as much as I would heeding a real life predicament you've been through.  You're reacting on personal experience...ie...trusting yourself.  That's a good thing.  Personally, I have walked thru Harlem without having a bitter experience, but I was walking with my husband (who is black)...and a few of his friends, one of which was a resident of  Harlem.  So, I'm sure that makes a difference.

You said....."There is a difference between "prejudice" and "racism".  I am not a racist...but I have my prejudices.  All people do.  The question...and it is a personal question...is what has lead you to feel the way you feel."   I very much agree with that.

Now, as to your question about polygamy [;)], I guess you'll have to gather some like minded people and take the route the gays have.  Granted, it took them years to get where they have gotten and they still aren't totally there, but it's coming.  I would imagine you, as a polygamist, would have the same battle to fight in the U.S.  It is allowed in some countries, though.  If you are into that, you may have already happened across this article.  If not...maybe you'd find it of interest, maybe not.  http://www.steel-door.com/polygamy.htm

And sad to say, but in the meantime, you'll have to make due, like the gays did.  [sm=flowers.gif]



HannahLynHeather -> RE: Confronting Prejudice. (8/21/2011 12:13:51 PM)

quote:

I think a discussion of "bigotry" would have been more on point.
semantically accurate, but come on, i knew what was meant in the op.



HannahLynHeather -> RE: Confronting Prejudice. (8/21/2011 12:19:12 PM)

quote:

Now that the definition of marriage has been expanded to include gays in New York State, why can't I marry two girls? I have been in triadic relationships since college and I have been in long term relationships with bisexual girls that loved each other as well as me. But I couldn't marry them....and I still can't. I don't think that's fair.
it isn't fucking fair. and why can't you marry both of them? because of the current moral, ethical, and legal climate and views of the majority of society, based on - wait for it - christianity!!!





orchid77 -> RE: Confronting Prejudice. (8/21/2011 12:29:43 PM)

Imp I don't have the answer, but all I can say, you are not the only one who is frustrated. I am a Christian and I am tired of being generalized into every situation that happens on the news. Knowing that there are thousands of denominations and sects (some good and some very bad). However, when something happens that is Christian related ALL Christians are at fault. I also get tired of the double standards in regards to Christians. Other religions can have their prayers, religious books, but as soon as a Christian wants to display something for Christmas. It is Church verses State. Atheist are upset and making hurtful remarks.

Imp I don't believe in the word that is thrown around all the time called tolerance. Tolerance is a negative term not a positive one. Respect is different. Tolerance is when I hate you and yet serve you anyway, but make it very clear that I don't like you in body language or my lack of respect for you. Respect is when I take the time to understand who you are and intelligently see the bigger picture.

I understand that not all Muslims are violent. I understand that other religions are personal for many and I see the bigger picture. In the United States, we always want to react and be right. We don't want to take the time to understand and educate ourselves. With that said, the only resolution to prejudice is within. Knowledge is power. Educate yourself. Self-reflect on they kind of person you are and the kind of person you want to become. Be a part of the social change and not part of the many many people who don't care about change. When someone frustrates you know that is one person or one group of people. And that not everyone is part of that thinking.

Life is short. Enjoy it.



willbeurdaddy -> RE: Confronting Prejudice. (8/21/2011 12:30:01 PM)

FR

If you have first hand experience with a number of the people you are finding those feelings about, then there is nothing you can proactively do about it. If you dont have first hand experience, and are only reading things, then remember that your sources are almost certainly speaking with an agenda. Discount them, ignore them, whatever, because you arent really reacting to the people but to fiction.



lockedaway -> RE: Confronting Prejudice. (8/21/2011 12:32:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

quote:

Now that the definition of marriage has been expanded to include gays in New York State, why can't I marry two girls? I have been in triadic relationships since college and I have been in long term relationships with bisexual girls that loved each other as well as me. But I couldn't marry them....and I still can't. I don't think that's fair.
it isn't fucking fair. and why can't you marry both of them? because of the current moral, ethical, and legal climate and views of the majority of society, based on - wait for it - christianity!!!





Jesus...take your Pamprin for Christsake!  I am opposed to gay marriage and polyamorous marriage.  I agree with the definition of marriage that it is between one man and one woman and once you expand the definition, where does it stop.  Should a woman be able to marry her Great Dane?  For women that are into that, the answer is, obviously, "yes" because the definition of marriage has been.....wait for it.....expanded. 

I do not have a problem with the creation of another vehicle such as a civil union for gays, EXCEPT ONE----neither two men nor two women should get a deduction or credit for living together that I am not entitled to.  I feel that expanding the tax credit is PREJUDICIAL.  

In addition to the tax issue another problem with civil unions for polyamorous couples is the division of the union presents OBVIOUS, and also not-so-obvious, nightmares for the legal system.  That doesn't stop me from engaging in those relationships but any man that marries two women should have his fucking head examined anyway....but that's beside the point.



kdsub -> RE: Confronting Prejudice. (8/21/2011 12:35:37 PM)

Try going to their church...meet and talk with the people. I'm not talking about the Westboro Baptist type of church, no sane person can help but be prejudice towards them. But perhaps a nice rural church on a Sunday morning.

I’ll bet you will find them little different than you but with a few different points of view on the world around them. You are passionate in what you believe right and wrong and so are they.

Maybe you will at least understand them better and realize they are good people that do not wish anyone harm and all they want to do is preserve their way of life.

I think you will like them even if you could never agree with their beliefs.

Butch



lockedaway -> RE: Confronting Prejudice. (8/21/2011 12:35:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

FR

If you have first hand experience with a number of the people you are finding those feelings about, then there is nothing you can proactively do about it. If you dont have first hand experience, and are only reading things, then remember that your sources are almost certainly speaking with an agenda. Discount them, ignore them, whatever, because you arent really reacting to the people but to fiction.


I agree with you....but....why would you do anything proactive about what you have seen or experienced? 



DomKen -> RE: Confronting Prejudice. (8/21/2011 12:38:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway
Jesus...take your Pamprin for Christsake!  I am opposed to gay marriage and polyamorous marriage.  I agree with the definition of marriage that it is between one man and one woman and once you expand the definition, where does it stop.  Should a woman be able to marry her Great Dane?  For women that are into that, the answer is, obviously, "yes" because the definition of marriage has been.....wait for it.....expanded. 

Such complete and utter nonsense. Expanding marriage to same sex couples does not change the fundamental definition of marriage. That is a union of two consenting adults. Marriage was and remains essentially a contract and consent is an essential part of all contracts. Dogs simply cannot give legal consent.

Of all the arguments against same sex marriage, and they all patently absurd, the "marry dogs next" argument is the most absurd.



lockedaway -> RE: Confronting Prejudice. (8/21/2011 12:45:29 PM)

No...that is YOUR definition. 

Find me your sources for men marrying any time prior to our current change in the law.



zephyroftheNorth -> RE: Confronting Prejudice. (8/21/2011 12:56:49 PM)

I don't equate devout and fundamentalist. I know a lot of devout Christians who aren't the special brand of crazy the fundamentalists are.

About your question, damned if I know especially with others showing prejudice. Maybe you could tell your friends to call you on it so that you are at least aware of it?



HannahLynHeather -> RE: Confronting Prejudice. (8/21/2011 12:59:11 PM)

quote:

That doesn't stop me from engaging in those relationships
so you're a christian of convenience, happily engaging in whatever sinful activity you like yet proclaiming your adherence to the creed you are ignoring. why am i not the least bit surprised that your ethical principles only begin where your penis ends. pretty fucking typical of a right wing christian in america really.

hypocrisy, thy name is lockedaway.



DomKen -> RE: Confronting Prejudice. (8/21/2011 1:05:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

No...that is YOUR definition. 

Find me your sources for men marrying any time prior to our current change in the law.


Emperor Elagabulus and Hierocles

There were also same sex institutions in ancient China

The practive was outlawed in Rome in 342 AD so it must have been occuring before then.



willbeurdaddy -> RE: Confronting Prejudice. (8/21/2011 2:18:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

FR

If you have first hand experience with a number of the people you are finding those feelings about, then there is nothing you can proactively do about it. If you dont have first hand experience, and are only reading things, then remember that your sources are almost certainly speaking with an agenda. Discount them, ignore them, whatever, because you arent really reacting to the people but to fiction.


I agree with you....but....why would you do anything proactive about what you have seen or experienced? 



Because it bothers her to have those feelings, and posting here is just one of many proactive steps shes taking to try and reconcile/rationalize/eliminate those feelings. But it cant be done once it has reached the point where you are already having negative feelings.



willbeurdaddy -> RE: Confronting Prejudice. (8/21/2011 2:24:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

No...that is YOUR definition. 

Find me your sources for men marrying any time prior to our current change in the law.



KenDoll likes to reinvent history to support his points. Marriage in most cultures was religious in nature and evolved to ensure that a woman's young were protected by a male. To claim it was never gender specific and only a legal construct is ridiculous. Later societies did recognize same sex relationships similar to marriage, but that was the point...they were SIMILAR, they werent called marriage.

And that is why those who oppose same sex marriage are not anti-gay. Equal rights doesnt mean you have to call it the same thing.



Kirata -> RE: Confronting Prejudice. (8/21/2011 2:25:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: imperatrixx

But the more I read about fundamentalist Christians doing abhorrent things, I find myself thinking...typical fundie freak. Fundamentalist Christians beat their kids. Not surprised. Fundamentalist Christians want to teach creationism in public school? Of course, those backwards motherfuckers do.

I'm really starting to become prejudiced.

I'd have to question whether "prejudice" is the right word here.

prejudice
1. an unfavorable opinion or feeling formed beforehand or without knowledge, thought, or reason.
2. a preconceived opinion or feeling, either favorable or unfavorable.
3. unreasonable feelings, opinions, or attitudes, especially of a hostile nature, regarding a racial, religious, or national group.

I don't see how your views are preconceived, unreasonable, or formed without knowledge.

bigotry
1. stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own.
2. the actions, beliefs, prejudices, etc., of a bigot.

That might better suit the case, but the definition seem to lack finesse. Is it bigotry to be stubbornly intolerant of cruelty, or to be stubbornly intolerant toward claims of a "God-given" right to rule over others, etc? Really?

Just sayin, not so simple...

K.



lockedaway -> RE: Confronting Prejudice. (8/21/2011 2:35:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

quote:

That doesn't stop me from engaging in those relationships
so you're a christian of convenience, happily engaging in whatever sinful activity you like yet proclaiming your adherence to the creed you are ignoring. why am i not the least bit surprised that your ethical principles only begin where your penis ends. pretty fucking typical of a right wing christian in america really.

hypocrisy, thy name is lockedaway.



Now...what I am responding to is clearly the post of an asshole.  I am a Catholic...one of the many permutations of Christianity.  I try to lead a Christ like life in that I try to love thy neighbor as I love thyself,  I try to obey the Ten Commandments but (try as I might, however, I cannot seem to drag myself to church more than once or twice per year) but I fail.  I lead a polyamorous life and, at some point, I will have to atone for it.  I accept that inevitability as part of my belief system.  I would like to think that I will not be judged too harshly but some people say that the polyamory I enjoy is just another form of adultery.  I guess I will find out when I die.

What I do not do is castigate an entire belief system for billions of people like the dumb bitch did whom I have just responded to.



willbeurdaddy -> RE: Confronting Prejudice. (8/21/2011 2:38:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

quote:

That doesn't stop me from engaging in those relationships
so you're a christian of convenience, happily engaging in whatever sinful activity you like yet proclaiming your adherence to the creed you are ignoring. why am i not the least bit surprised that your ethical principles only begin where your penis ends. pretty fucking typical of a right wing christian in america really.

hypocrisy, thy name is lockedaway.



Now...what I am responding to is clearly the post of an asshole.  I am a Catholic...one of the many permutations of Christianity.  I try to lead a Christ like life in that I try to love thy neighbor as I love thyself,  I try to obey the Ten Commandments but (try as I might, however, I cannot seem to drag myself to church more than once or twice per year) but I fail.  I lead a polyamorous life and, at some point, I will have to atone for it.  I accept that inevitability as part of my belief system.  I would like to think that I will not be judged too harshly but some people say that the polyamory I enjoy is just another form of adultery.  I guess I will find out when I die.

What I do not do is castigate an entire belief system for billions of people like the dumb bitch did whom I have just responded to.



Hopefully you will live a long and fulfilled life and physcially adultery will no longer be an issue, then you can repent at no real cost and heavans gate will be open wide!



lockedaway -> RE: Confronting Prejudice. (8/21/2011 2:41:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

quote:

That doesn't stop me from engaging in those relationships
so you're a christian of convenience, happily engaging in whatever sinful activity you like yet proclaiming your adherence to the creed you are ignoring. why am i not the least bit surprised that your ethical principles only begin where your penis ends. pretty fucking typical of a right wing christian in america really.

hypocrisy, thy name is lockedaway.



Now...what I am responding to is clearly the post of an asshole.  I am a Catholic...one of the many permutations of Christianity.  I try to lead a Christ like life in that I try to love thy neighbor as I love thyself,  I try to obey the Ten Commandments but (try as I might, however, I cannot seem to drag myself to church more than once or twice per year) but I fail.  I lead a polyamorous life and, at some point, I will have to atone for it.  I accept that inevitability as part of my belief system.  I would like to think that I will not be judged too harshly but some people say that the polyamory I enjoy is just another form of adultery.  I guess I will find out when I die.

What I do not do is castigate an entire belief system for billions of people like the dumb bitch did whom I have just responded to.



Hopefully you will live a long and fulfilled life and physcially adultery will no longer be an issue, then you can repent at no real cost and heavans gate will be open wide!


Indeed!  Now that is a hopeful inspiring thought!



tweakabelle -> RE: Confronting Prejudice. (8/21/2011 4:36:46 PM)

quote:

lockedaway
I would like to think that I will not be judged too harshly but some people say that the polyamory I enjoy is just another form of adultery.  I guess I will find out when I die.


I do hope that if you are judged by some god or other at the end of your days, that god will exhibit more compassion towards you than I have ever seen you exhibit here to those less affluent than you claim to be.

There's no good reason to expect that god to do so, except the goodness of compassion itself as a virtue - but that's something you have repeatedly sneered at and maligned.

Take a good look in the mirror.



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