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RE: do i really fall into the sub category? - 8/27/2011 7:33:21 AM   
DesFIP


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From: Apple County NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: makmesubmit

Lockit

You referenced porn several times, but im not talking completely sexual, sex doesnt have to have anything to do with it. How would a dominant make me submit? A dominant gives me a command, and if it is something that i feel like disobeying (not a hard limit, just something i don't want to do), then i would be punished until i obey, and perhaps even more so that i don't disobey in the future.




But how would they make you submit to punishment? If you refuse, then what? Is she supposed to chase you around the kitchen with a crop? Or are you saying that you will submit to punishment only?

Because if that's the only thing you will agree to, that means you find punishment desirable on some level. If it's erotic, then it's usually referred to as funishment, a consensual game between two people.

If it isn't erotic, then what's the pull that you will meekly lie down and be caned when two minutes before you wouldn't willingly pour her a second cup of coffee?


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RE: do i really fall into the sub category? - 8/27/2011 8:34:47 AM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: makmesubmit
I've seen the words 'inspire submission' more than once. im not sure i understand exactly, this may be what im looking for in a more outside the box way.


I'll take a guess, mms, about 'where you are' right now.

At one level, you want to submit, because it's a tremendously exciting idea. But a voice says 'Nah, it can't work, it's too good to be true'. Added to that voice is another saying, 'Seriously, how could any woman dominate me? It makes no sense because she'd have to be more powerful than me to do that, and women are very rarely more powerful than me'.

This relates to what I think is what can feel like a fundamental paradox about BDSM: you are *choosing to give over your power* to someone else. That doesn't happen in the vanilla (the non-dominant/submissive) world. Nobody chooses to 'give over their power' there. Therefore Dominant/submissive (D/s) relationships can look as though they fly in the face of all reason.

But they don't contradict reason, they only contradict that which people have come to take absolutely for granted, as the accepted norm. This is the assumption that 'everyone wants more power, they never want to give away power'. It's this that you can safely, and quite reasonably, ditch. It's reasonable to ditch it, because it's reasonable to want to enjoy your life more. *Then* the bit in you that wants the freedom to submit, and be dominated, can do so. And you can have ten tons more fun as a result.

I'm saying, in short: why let this need to be 'forced', 'punished', whatever - get in the way? Let it go, and let the really good times roll.

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RE: do i really fall into the sub category? - 8/27/2011 9:00:58 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer




I'll take a guess, mms, about 'where you are' right now.

At one level, you want to submit, because it's a tremendously exciting idea. But a voice says 'Nah, it can't work, it's too good to be true'. Added to that voice is another saying, 'Seriously, how could any woman dominate me? It makes no sense because she'd have to be more powerful than me to do that, and women are very rarely more powerful than me'.

This relates to what I think is what can feel like a fundamental paradox about BDSM: you are *choosing to give over your power* to someone else. That doesn't happen in the vanilla (the non-dominant/submissive) world. Nobody chooses to 'give over their power' there. Therefore Dominant/submissive (D/s) relationships can look as though they fly in the face of all reason.

But they don't contradict reason, they only contradict that which people have come to take absolutely for granted, as the accepted norm. This is the assumption that 'everyone wants more power, they never want to give away power'. It's this that you can safely, and quite reasonably, ditch. It's reasonable to ditch it, because it's reasonable to want to enjoy your life more. *Then* the bit in you that wants the freedom to submit, and be dominated, can do so. And you can have ten tons more fun as a result.

I'm saying, in short: why let this need to be 'forced', 'punished', whatever - get in the way? Let it go, and let the really good times roll.


He's not just a great set of abs, he's got brains too.


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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: do i really fall into the sub category? - 8/27/2011 9:09:56 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		Thank you, Chatte - but it may not fit the OP much, if at all.  I'm only really talking about my own 'stumblings along the road'.

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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: do i really fall into the sub category? - 8/28/2011 12:20:55 AM   
makmesubmit


Posts: 9
Joined: 8/24/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

quote:

ORIGINAL: makmesubmit

Lockit

You referenced porn several times, but im not talking completely sexual, sex doesnt have to have anything to do with it. How would a dominant make me submit? A dominant gives me a command, and if it is something that i feel like disobeying (not a hard limit, just something i don't want to do), then i would be punished until i obey, and perhaps even more so that i don't disobey in the future.




But how would they make you submit to punishment? If you refuse, then what? Is she supposed to chase you around the kitchen with a crop? Or are you saying that you will submit to punishment only?

Because if that's the only thing you will agree to, that means you find punishment desirable on some level. If it's erotic, then it's usually referred to as funishment, a consensual game between two people.

If it isn't erotic, then what's the pull that you will meekly lie down and be caned when two minutes before you wouldn't willingly pour her a second cup of coffee?


mental image of beng chased around kitchen with crop is hilarious.
The punishment is the only way i can think in my clueless mind to get what i really desire, which is loss of control. Apart from vERY FEW limmits, i want no control. I would not refuse the average mundane task, but in the event an order is given that i would refuse, i want a dominant that will push my limmit further where that command from then on is better than the punishment.

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: do i really fall into the sub category? - 8/28/2011 9:31:45 AM   
Daddysredhead


Posts: 23574
Joined: 11/6/2005
From: Northern (yet still part of the South) Virginia
Status: offline 		FR:

I'd say it's almost like being a "SAM."  (smart-assed masochist)  But that's just my

Make it what you want to be, look around the buffet of dominant people you are interested in, and see who has the right fit for you.

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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: do i really fall into the sub category? - 8/28/2011 10:13:04 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: makmesubmit
The punishment is the only way i can think in my clueless mind to get what i really desire, which is loss of control. Apart from vERY FEW limits, i want no control. I would not refuse the average mundane task, but in the event an order is given that i would refuse, i want a dominant that will push my limit further where that command from then on is better than the punishment.


Again, if you found the order to be something you couldn't do, are you saying that if told to lie down and be punished, you will do that? And what about after, will you then change your mind and feelings about the order? Or are you expecting to be punished every hour until you can do this? What will the punishment do if you still can't obey the order?

Nobody can take control from you unless you hand it over. And dominants don't want to feel like failures either. If you refuse to give control, then they can't take it. Most importantly, if you can't do something, you shouldn't immediately be punished. You should sit down and talk about why this is a stumbling block. Because you'll have dozens of them crop up. I've seen people who are fine with the most extreme play have meltdowns and draw the line at addressing their partner with a simple Sir or Ma'am. You don't know where you are going to have trouble until you get to that point.

You should get some simple experience before imagining all these what if things. And that's what this 'rip the control bodily from me' is, fantasy and imagination. Since in reality if someone tried it, you would call the police and charge them with assault.


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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: do i really fall into the sub category? - 8/28/2011 10:38:08 AM   
makmesubmit


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Joined: 8/24/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Again, if you found the order to be something you couldn't do, are you saying that if told to lie down and be punished, you will do that? And what about after, will you then change your mind and feelings about the order? Or are you expecting to be punished every hour until you can do this? What will the punishment do if you still can't obey the order?


Yes i would accept punishment (whether corporal punishment or other). Just because i refuse an order doesnt mean i cant do somthing. It could very well mean id risk punishment rather than do it, or i feel like i cant do it when in actuality i can. It would change my mind and feelings afterward when in the first example, i would no longer say 'id rather risk punishment' or it could even be 'i did it before, i know i can do it again, so why be punished when i know the outcome?'

I want my limmits pushed beyond what i want my limmits to be, what i feel my limmits may be. If i still have any power in the situation that will be a hinderance. But you are right, i dont know what stumbling blocks ill encounter, and i seem to be full of 'what-ifs'. I may never encounter such a scenario where this ever even needs to take place, such as if a dominant can push my limmits through other means.

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: do i really fall into the sub category? - 8/28/2011 12:27:00 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		My suggestion is that you tell any potential partners of what you are curious about, that you have no experience and you don't know where your limits are yet.

Limits aren't bad things. They are there to protect our health; physical, mental and emotional. If you were a diabetic you would need to put as a limit too long between meals. To protect your health.


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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: do i really fall into the sub category? - 8/28/2011 12:36:50 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		This whole thread reminds me of the sub who will come back a few months later to complain about how they were abused and pushed too far and the Dom/me is dangerous because they didn't respect their "limits" when in reality the sub never knew what they were to begin with and therefore never communicated any differently because they felt the dom/me should just make them submit.





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RE: do i really fall into the sub category? - 8/28/2011 12:57:48 PM   
SoulAlloy


Posts: 2106
Joined: 8/23/2009
From: Preston, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

My suggestion is that you tell any potential partners of what you are curious about, that you have no experience and you don't know where your limits are yet.

Limits aren't bad things. They are there to protect our health; physical, mental and emotional. If you were a diabetic you would need to put as a limit too long between meals. To protect your health.



I agree with all of the above.

Possibly suggest a safeword to the prospective partner as well, though I can understand you (the OP) may be reluctant to use it. If you're not sure how you'll react to pain it is useful to have, particularly as in the scenario you're thinking of 'no' might be ignored.

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RE: do i really fall into the sub category? - 8/28/2011 1:25:05 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
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I give up. 

MMS - good luck with your 'limmits', whatever they are.

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: do i really fall into the sub category? - 8/28/2011 1:47:07 PM   
coookie


Posts: 541
Joined: 10/25/2010
Status: offline 		So if you wont submit to an act and need to be forced what makes you think you will submit to the punishment willingly MMS? Do you expect a dominant to overcome you physically? If not then you are "allowing" her the power to discipline you.

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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: do i really fall into the sub category? - 8/29/2011 10:21:30 AM   
MissImmortalPain


Posts: 2440
Joined: 4/1/2011
Status: offline 		I had a "sub" that thought like this(yes it's in quotes for a reason) I came to find out that she was not infact a sub but a sadomasicist...if you don't know what it means look it up. She too wanted to be physically overpowered and made to do what I wanted. Which yes I could and did do for awhile. But in the long run it became very annoying that she would keep pushing me to get angry at her. I also have a male sub that firmly believes that for a woman to dominate him he must know that she could do it physically, though he never pushs me to prove it.....he is a little brighter than she is.

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RE: do i really fall into the sub category? - 8/29/2011 12:19:34 PM   
coookie


Posts: 541
Joined: 10/25/2010
Status: offline 		I figure being dominant is a lot of work as it is. It would be extensive to have to physically force people to submit each time as well. Can you imagine coming home from work, tired with sore feet and asking for a cup of tea and your submissive being all like "make me"? I think his or her worth would be short lived in the relationship.

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RE: do i really fall into the sub category? - 8/29/2011 12:53:12 PM   
Rochsub2009


Posts: 2536
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: coookie
Can you imagine coming home from work, tired with sore feet and asking for a cup of tea and your submissive being all like "make me"? I think his or her worth would be short lived in the relationship.


Exactly!  I think the OP is failing to understand that his need to be "forced" to obey is diametrically opposed to the concept of submission.  That's why I said that I think his interests fall more under the umbrella of "masochism" than they fall under the category of "Submission".  His interests seem to be motivated by a desire for punishment.  I've heard him say little that reflects a desire to serve/submit.

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RE: do i really fall into the sub category? - 8/29/2011 11:16:06 PM   
seekingreality


Posts: 599
Joined: 8/11/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: makmesubmit

I have discovered during my short time here that most submissives are just that through and through (which is why i started this thread, actually). I very well may never find a dominant who would accept me in this manner. But i know myself enough to know that without some sort of discipline/training, the only thing that gives a dominant authority over me is my allowing her to have it.

Also, im open to teaching. I have said before im very new so i may very well, and very quickly, change once i actualy have interaction with others from the community. I just dont have much knowledge on where and how to meet others.


It sounds like you're too hung up labels. No matter what someone calls himself, ultimately a relationship is defined by the participants. So don't get worried looking for a label -- because no label you choose will mean the same thing to everything.

(in reply to makmesubmit)
Profile   Post #: 57
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