Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Obamacare = Fewer people with health insurance???


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Obamacare = Fewer people with health insurance??? Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Obamacare = Fewer people with health insurance??? - 8/24/2011 10:40:13 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Well, Tazzy, SCOTUS will have to decide if the mandate is legal or not.  I won't bet a nickel on that outcome.


Nor would I. 

I don't like the HCL and I have made no bones about that.  I also don't like the current system... too many are left without.

I see the exchanges as a step... a baby step... in the right direction.  What I see businesses contemplating is nothing more than bottom line management... seeing only the green.  Which I also see that hurting them in the end when it comes to recruiting the best and the brightest... and in retention of that same crew.

Health care isn't a right... nor is it a privilege. 


_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Obamacare = Fewer people with health insurance??? - 8/24/2011 10:49:34 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		Your bush-economy = fewer people with jobs = fewer people with healthcare.


Thanks neo-cons, for alllll your help.


You fucking cunts.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to DecadentDesire)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Obamacare = Fewer people with health insurance??? - 8/24/2011 10:52:15 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline 		H.R.3590.ENR

Just in case anyone else is a complete masochist and wants to read the actual text of the bill.

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to DecadentDesire)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Obamacare = Fewer people with health insurance??? - 8/24/2011 10:57:07 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		lol.. then I am a masochist.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Obamacare = Fewer people with health insurance??? - 8/24/2011 10:59:43 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

quote:

is that it isn't intended to fix anything.
of course it isn't, it's intended to sell more fucking insurance policies.


The conspiracy theory that Obamcare was designed to help insurance companies is ass backwards. Insurance company profits on group policies are much greater than individual policies because of lower marketing costs and lower overall risk. The exchanges are just aggregations of individual policies. There is no way that is good for insurance companies in the long run.

aggregating lots of individuals together is good when its an employer but bad when its managed by the government? Your logical failures know no bounds.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Obamacare = Fewer people with health insurance??? - 8/24/2011 11:08:26 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/24/michigan-health-care_n_935559.html

"Michigan GOP Lawmakers Move To Limit Health Care Coverage For Public Employees"


The always helpful cons,helping out with healthcare too.....

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Obamacare = Fewer people with health insurance??? - 8/24/2011 11:10:13 PM   
DecadentDesire


Posts: 234
Joined: 6/18/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

You always could have beat us to the punch, Tazzy...

Would they really be losing, though?  Unless the individual mandate is struck down by SCOTUS (fingers crossed for that), those employees will then be required by federal law to buy the product on their own, on an individual basis.  At least some of those buyers are sure to be clueless suckers, who will get screwed.  That ought to more than make up for the ones the insurance companies lose.


My issue with the individual mandate is that it doesn't leave room for people like me who would prefer to use tax exempt savings account if he was still self employed.

However, if I didn't have that preference and I wanted to exploit the system, the mandate is the best part of the whole deal.

Since in the new plan, insurance companies can no longer turn down medical coverage based on medical conditions, I can pay the tax or fine or whatever word you want to use (which is relatively minor in comparison to the cost of an individual insurance plan), enjoy my youth, and then purchase an insurance plan when I actually need it.

If I were to follow a similar model currently, I would be screwing myself in the ass. Therefore, to be smart, I am forced to pay hefty premium in order to ensure I have insurance when I actually need it.

Also, the last time I checked, there wasn't any penalty for not paying the fine. Unless that has changed, then I don't really see what the big deal is about it's existence.


< Message edited by DecadentDesire -- 8/24/2011 11:11:03 PM >

_____________________________

I was once a Rabbit, driven Mad, by the Decadence of his Desires...

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Obamacare = Fewer people with health insurance??? - 8/24/2011 11:20:10 PM   
HannahLynHeather


Posts: 2950
Joined: 4/4/2011
From: where it's at
Status: offline
quote:

Also, the last time I checked, there wasn't any penalty for not paying the fine. Unless that has changed, then I don't really see what the big deal is about it's existence.
i thought i read somewhere that they just tacked the fucker onto the income tax you owe and enforce it that way.

_____________________________

clique? i don't need no stinking clique!

fuck a duck ~w. disney

My Twitter: http://twitter.com/HannahFuck

i hope you enjoyed the post, and as always my friends....have a nice day

(in reply to DecadentDesire)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Obamacare = Fewer people with health insurance??? - 8/24/2011 11:24:24 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		Great post.

I little knowledge goes a lot farther than all the republican fear mongers put together.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to DecadentDesire)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Obamacare = Fewer people with health insurance??? - 8/24/2011 11:25:40 PM   
DecadentDesire


Posts: 234
Joined: 6/18/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

quote:

Also, the last time I checked, there wasn't any penalty for not paying the fine. Unless that has changed, then I don't really see what the big deal is about it's existence.
i thought i read somewhere that they just tacked the fucker onto the income tax you owe and enforce it that way.


Supposedly, they can't put a tax lien against it or throw me in jail for not paying it. At the most, I just have to deal with harsh letters from the IRS if I don't choose to pay it.

I'll try and cite that when I am not so sleepy.


_____________________________

I was once a Rabbit, driven Mad, by the Decadence of his Desires...

(in reply to HannahLynHeather)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Obamacare = Fewer people with health insurance??? - 8/24/2011 11:28:17 PM   
HannahLynHeather


Posts: 2950
Joined: 4/4/2011
From: where it's at
Status: offline 		no that's fine, if you're wrong somebody will come along and dispute it soon enough. 

so they are using the irs to collect it but not enforce it. fucking strange.


_____________________________

clique? i don't need no stinking clique!

fuck a duck ~w. disney

My Twitter: http://twitter.com/HannahFuck

i hope you enjoyed the post, and as always my friends....have a nice day

(in reply to DecadentDesire)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Obamacare = Fewer people with health insurance??? - 8/24/2011 11:29:53 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

quote:

Also, the last time I checked, there wasn't any penalty for not paying the fine. Unless that has changed, then I don't really see what the big deal is about it's existence.
i thought i read somewhere that they just tacked the fucker onto the income tax you owe and enforce it that way.


Nope.

The "penalty" is a small tax break you don`t get.

The "thrown in jail"-frightened child narrative is tea flavored cool-aid.



_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to HannahLynHeather)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Obamacare = Fewer people with health insurance??? - 8/25/2011 12:18:47 AM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

You always could have beat us to the punch, Tazzy...

Would they really be losing, though?  Unless the individual mandate is struck down by SCOTUS (fingers crossed for that), those employees will then be required by federal law to buy the product on their own, on an individual basis.  At least some of those buyers are sure to be clueless suckers, who will get screwed.  That ought to more than make up for the ones the insurance companies lose.




No need.  I tend to be able to debate with the two of you, so its all good.

If its not struck down... then they will have to buy their own or go to the exchanges.  I pondered then, and its becoming more than a wonder now, that this was the plan all along.



LMAO. Its about time you listened to me!

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Obamacare = Fewer people with health insurance??? - 8/25/2011 12:20:58 AM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

I dont think the convoluted "monkey wrench" theory is needed. The express intent of Obamacare was to do exactly what the effect has been...termination of employer health coverage to drive people to the exchanges. Once the exchanges reach critical mass they become the only viable option remaning....ie single payer.


I dont think 10% is what we can consider "termination".  Those who offer it will have the upper hand in term of benefits over those who do not offer it.  It becomes part of a premium employment package.




Its just the beginning. And you are assuming anybody will offer it. The only companies that will continue to offer health insurance are those big enough to self insure, and as the exchanges grow the threshold number of employees that make self insuring viable rises.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Obamacare = Fewer people with health insurance??? - 8/25/2011 12:23:41 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

You always could have beat us to the punch, Tazzy...

Would they really be losing, though?  Unless the individual mandate is struck down by SCOTUS (fingers crossed for that), those employees will then be required by federal law to buy the product on their own, on an individual basis.  At least some of those buyers are sure to be clueless suckers, who will get screwed.  That ought to more than make up for the ones the insurance companies lose.




No need.  I tend to be able to debate with the two of you, so its all good.

If its not struck down... then they will have to buy their own or go to the exchanges.  I pondered then, and its becoming more than a wonder now, that this was the plan all along.



LMAO. Its about time you listened to me!


Listening to you?  I have been hinting at this since the bill was proposed.


_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Obamacare = Fewer people with health insurance??? - 8/25/2011 12:24:28 AM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

quote:

is that it isn't intended to fix anything.
of course it isn't, it's intended to sell more fucking insurance policies.


The conspiracy theory that Obamcare was designed to help insurance companies is ass backwards. Insurance company profits on group policies are much greater than individual policies because of lower marketing costs and lower overall risk. The exchanges are just aggregations of individual policies. There is no way that is good for insurance companies in the long run.

aggregating lots of individuals together is good when its an employer but bad when its managed by the government? Your logical failures know no bounds.


Your stupidity knows no bounds. GROUP policies spread risk, a lot of INDIVIDUAL policies dont. DUCY? Didnt think so.

And in general .... anything done by employers is better than when its done by the government.

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 8/25/2011 12:25:29 AM >

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Obamacare = Fewer people with health insurance??? - 8/25/2011 12:25:18 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

I dont think the convoluted "monkey wrench" theory is needed. The express intent of Obamacare was to do exactly what the effect has been...termination of employer health coverage to drive people to the exchanges. Once the exchanges reach critical mass they become the only viable option remaning....ie single payer.


I dont think 10% is what we can consider "termination".  Those who offer it will have the upper hand in term of benefits over those who do not offer it.  It becomes part of a premium employment package.




Its just the beginning. And you are assuming anybody will offer it. The only companies that will continue to offer health insurance are those big enough to self insure, and as the exchanges grow the threshold number of employees that make self insuring viable rises.


Since group plans are the bread and butter of the insurance industry... what will happen to them?


_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Obamacare = Fewer people with health insurance??? - 8/25/2011 12:28:56 AM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DecadentDesire

Since in the new plan, insurance companies can no longer turn down medical coverage based on medical conditions, I can pay the tax or fine or whatever word you want to use (which is relatively minor in comparison to the cost of an individual insurance plan), enjoy my youth, and then purchase an insurance plan when I actually need it.



And thats why the whole plan falls apart without the individual mandate.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to DecadentDesire)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Obamacare = Fewer people with health insurance??? - 8/25/2011 12:33:58 AM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DecadentDesire

quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

quote:

Also, the last time I checked, there wasn't any penalty for not paying the fine. Unless that has changed, then I don't really see what the big deal is about it's existence.
i thought i read somewhere that they just tacked the fucker onto the income tax you owe and enforce it that way.


Supposedly, they can't put a tax lien against it or throw me in jail for not paying it. At the most, I just have to deal with harsh letters from the IRS if I don't choose to pay it.

I'll try and cite that when I am not so sleepy.



If by some miracle the individual mandate survives and there is widespread avoidance then they will just increase the penalties. The experience in Mass. is overwhelming compliance.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to DecadentDesire)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Obamacare = Fewer people with health insurance??? - 8/25/2011 12:35:27 AM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

You always could have beat us to the punch, Tazzy...

Would they really be losing, though?  Unless the individual mandate is struck down by SCOTUS (fingers crossed for that), those employees will then be required by federal law to buy the product on their own, on an individual basis.  At least some of those buyers are sure to be clueless suckers, who will get screwed.  That ought to more than make up for the ones the insurance companies lose.




No need.  I tend to be able to debate with the two of you, so its all good.

If its not struck down... then they will have to buy their own or go to the exchanges.  I pondered then, and its becoming more than a wonder now, that this was the plan all along.



LMAO. Its about time you listened to me!


Listening to you?  I have been hinting at this since the bill was proposed.



Hinting? Nice cop out. Ive been explicitly saying it since then.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 40
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Obamacare = Fewer people with health insurance??? Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.125