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RE: Enviro-Nazis Raid Guitar Shop - 8/29/2011 4:28:14 AM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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Careful with that vintage Steinway, friend:

quote:

Given the risks, why don't musicians just settle for the safety of carbon fiber? Some do—when concert pianist Jeffrey Sharkey moved to England two decades ago, he had Steinway replace the ivories on his piano with plastic.


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RE: Enviro-Nazis Raid Guitar Shop - 8/29/2011 5:01:49 AM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

<snip>
Consider the recent experience of Pascal Vieillard, whose Atlanta-area company, A-440 Pianos, imported several antique Bösendorfers. Mr. Vieillard asked officials at the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species how to fill out the correct paperwork—which simply encouraged them to alert U.S. Customs to give his shipment added scrutiny.<snip>

He plead guilty to smuggling 17,010 pieces of ivory
thats a dollar each and court costs.
ooooh but lookee here theres more he got 3 years probation,
oh and even more
The invoice accompanying the U.S. Customs and Border Protection entry packet declared ten of
the eleven pianos in the shipment as having “no ivory keys.” No CITES permits or U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service declarations accompanied the shipment. Two pianos had the keyboards removed and five pianos had the individual keys removed. Investigators noted that two piano keyboards were located in the bottom of a crate under furniture and personal effects. The individual keys were located in a crate under a tray of marking pens. The keyboards and individual keys were positively identified to be covered with elephant ivory, which requires a permit to be imported or exported."
but he didnt know?

with regard to the first OP
A federal Department of Homeland Security data system tracking all imports to the U.S., the federal agent reported, showed 11 shipments of sawn ebony or rosewood from India bound for Gibson facilities in Memphis, Nashville or in Bozeman, Mont.
http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2011/aug/27/shipment-prompted-gibson-searches/
seems it was a bit more involved..supriseeeeee

< Message edited by Lucylastic -- 8/29/2011 5:02:40 AM >


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RE: Enviro-Nazis Raid Guitar Shop - 8/29/2011 5:38:03 AM   
flcouple2009


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Luc,

Don't you generally dismantle objects and hide parts when moving things?  That is a dead give away that he knew what deal was.


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RE: Enviro-Nazis Raid Guitar Shop - 8/29/2011 5:45:20 AM   
Edwynn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


An opinion piece, in the WSJ, quoting experts:

quote:

John Thomas, a law professor at Quinnipiac University and a blues and ragtime guitarist, says "there's a lot of anxiety, and it's well justified." Once upon a time, he would have taken one of his vintage guitars on his travels. Now, "I don't go out of the country with a wooden guitar."


The tangled intersection of international laws is enforced through a thicket of paperwork. Recent revisions to 1900's Lacey Act require that anyone crossing the U.S. border declare every bit of flora or fauna being brought into the country. One is under "strict liability" to fill out the paperwork—and without any mistakes.


It's not enough to know that the body of your old guitar is made of spruce and maple: What's the bridge made of? If it's ebony, do you have the paperwork to show when and where that wood was harvested and when and where it was made into a bridge? Is the nut holding the strings at the guitar's headstock bone, or could it be ivory? "Even if you have no knowledge—despite Herculean efforts to obtain it—that some piece of your guitar, no matter how small, was obtained illegally, you lose your guitar forever," Prof. Thomas has written. "Oh, and you'll be fined $250 for that false (or missing) information in your Lacey Act Import Declaration."

Consider the recent experience of Pascal Vieillard, whose Atlanta-area company, A-440 Pianos, imported several antique Bösendorfers. Mr. Vieillard asked officials at the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species how to fill out the correct paperwork—which simply encouraged them to alert U.S. Customs to give his shipment added scrutiny.


There was never any question that the instruments were old enough to have grandfathered ivory keys. But Mr. Vieillard didn't have his paperwork straight when two-dozen federal agents came calling.


Facing criminal charges that might have put him in prison for years, Mr. Vieillard pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor count of violating the Lacey Act, and was handed a $17,500 fine and three years probation.


And what does the little moron ed offer, nothing other than his own worthless opinion... 





No, the idiot law professor's ignorant opinion goes towards explaining why he is a law professor rather than actually practicing law.

The reality of both the biggest name pop stars and everyday professional and amateur musicians hauling formerly legally harvested  but later outlawed wood in their guitars is the FACT.

Everyday, numerous flights per day.

Ask the law professor how many people have had their guitars confiscated at customs.  Go ahead, ask him.



PS

Forgot to mention also, that op-ed piece refers to the smuggling of the ivory keys that were in fact from pianos other than what was listed on the import sheet and in fact hidden under the crates in secret compartments are all what the writer euphemistically refers to as "didn't have his paper work straight."

http://egyptianfish.org/content/440-pianos-atlanta-georgia-and-illegal-ivory

"The invoice accompanying the U.S. Customs and Border Protection entry packet declared ten of the eleven pianos in the shipment as having “no ivory keys.” No CITES permits or U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service declarations accompanied the shipment. Two pianos had the keyboards removed and five pianos had the individual keys removed. Investigators noted that two piano keyboards were located in the bottom of a crate under furniture and personal effects. The individual keys were located in a crate under a tray of marking pens. The keyboards and individual keys were positively identified to be covered with elephant ivory, which requires a permit to be imported or exported."


Aw man, just a little paper work screw-up, you know?










< Message edited by Edwynn -- 8/29/2011 5:56:32 AM >

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RE: Enviro-Nazis Raid Guitar Shop - 8/29/2011 5:54:47 AM   
Lucylastic


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some articles stated it was new ivory, but I couldnt find the verifiable information on it, but even so a dollar a key is fuck all to pay for the amount he would get for them, and he plead guilty.
He has been importing for years but doesnt know the rules?? You do not fuck with customs or import "illegal" shit without having your arse covered nine ways to sunday.
he got caught, to bad so sad, dumb fuck deserved more. and I dont give a damn if he was repub or dem...


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RE: Enviro-Nazis Raid Guitar Shop - 8/29/2011 5:57:54 AM   
Lucylastic


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Edwynn, are you following me around the interwebs?


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RE: Enviro-Nazis Raid Guitar Shop - 8/29/2011 6:21:40 AM   
Edwynn


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Yes I am, in hopes that you might restore that all-too-brief other black-and white avatar some two or three ago, keeping in mind that I never once complained about the moo-shoe pork one because I actually liked it. Not sure about the interwebs thing though, seriously, since I don't go there and this is the only place I have any awareness of you and your sexy snark.

But to the issue; either the guy was trying to sneak in new ivory, which I think not, or he was trying to avoid some token extra taxes and fees associated with what would have otherwise been a completely legal transaction.

Piano keys ivory has not been used for over 40 years and even customs knows that 'paper work' for 60-100 yr, old ivory is not possible.

But in any case, I was wondering why you kept pestering me to import all those piano key-themed corsets, "special offer" and all that.








< Message edited by Edwynn -- 8/29/2011 6:24:59 AM >

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Enviro-Nazis Raid Guitar Shop - 8/29/2011 6:29:16 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
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grins I was talking about the information we each gave within the last five/six posts here:)
But thankyou for your opinion on my avatars and just for you I will put it back on again soon for a re showing.I liked the mooshoo pork one too but few people "got it".
Ive been importing items from all over the place in the past twelve years ...some exotic woods and I dont phuq around with customs... someone dealing in ivory on a regular basis, sure as hell knows whats going on and how to fill out the right forms. Ivory has been a no no trade for donkeys years. especially in huge amounts like 1710 ivory keys. theres no way he didnt know how to fill out forms.
Have a good one :)



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(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 48
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