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RE: okay, its time to get real! - 5/21/2006 11:11:39 AM

Padriag

Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Can I ask a sincere question? I was wondering if you think the real foundations of a relationship can be built to the point of exclusivity over the phone and internet contact? I do not really have an opinion, but I am just curious to know if you think it is possible to know you want to be exclusive with someone without meeting first?

In some cases, yes. I've had it happen, not often, but it has happened. I think one of the biggest factors in whether it happens is how honest both are being. Ultimately, building a relationship is all about how you communicate, how well you get to know each other, how well you build a connection. That can be done whether you are sitting across a table or talking on the phone... either still requires that you communicate honestly with each other. It can be a bit easier to catch someone being dishonest in person, you have more cues to pick up on (body langauge for example), but it can happen over the phone.

Also, I didn't say necessarily be exclusive. But consider this. Let say you meet someone online and you really like them, they really like you. There is definitely a feeling of some chemistry there, some sparks, an attraction. You talk, you flirt, you ARE starting some sort of a relationship at that point. Whether or not it will work out remains to be seen, but you have begun something. Now I don't have that happen with just anyone, but it does with some. In those cases I will focus on that long enough to see where it will go (meaning I stop flirting with other submissives I might meet). I expect the same of the submissive. For me its simply a question of "Hey, something is happening here, lets stop for a moment, give it our attention and see what happens." That might be giving it our attention for two days before we realize it isn't going to work, or it might be two months, or it might turn into a lifetime. I never know, but I'm not afraid to take some of my time to look and see what happens. If it doesn't "click" then we move on. I suppose I'm just amazed by people who say they seek a long term relationship but can't spare a week of their time to focus on something that might be the beginning of such a relationship because they're too busy flirting with a dozen other dominants or submissives. That just screams "player" to me.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 21

RE: okay, its time to get real! - 5/21/2006 11:22:03 AM

SEVADom

Posts: 37
Joined: 2/3/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RiotGirl

Something like 2 ppl cant be on AOL at the same time.. but there is AIM.. but you can see the difference..... yahoo, you can have multiple names online.. Figured it out once 2 years ago and wouldnt meet with Master until the "reference" contact contacted her in this specific way.. Course there's one hole.. could be some one lying.. LOL

Just a technical point here. I'm sorry to burst any bubbles, but it is trivially easy to appears as multiple individuals, simultaneously, on most any system. Some will allow two or more simultaneous connections with the same id, although that is unusual. If the system is browser-based (and most of the systems have a version that can be run through a browser, as opposed to using their downloaded software), then simply running two (different) browsers (say, IE and Firefox) will usually do the trick. If the system is not browser-based, then it's a little more difficult. One could use two computers (say, your main one and a laptop), or a more generic client (say, Trillian or Miranda).

I have, for non-evil reasons, several accounts on several systems. (Those reasons include using one account for personal and another for business contacts just to keep things straight, and also old and new, differently-named accounts gotten because the older ones were being spammed.) I routinely am on as many as nine different IM accounts across five systems at any given time. I mainly use Miranda to accomplish this, as it will do all of this with just a single instance. The setup is a bit complicated to get just right, but certainly not beyond a reasonably persistent person.

(in reply to RiotGirl)

Post #: 22

RE: okay, its time to get real! - 5/21/2006 11:37:31 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

This happened to me recently. I was TRYING to keep my options open while talking to many dominants after my first D/s heartbreak. I was talking to several doms, but I kept going back to one of the first ones I began emailing with, then we started talking on the phone. We started talking more and more and more. I was supposed to meet another dom for coffee that lived a couple of hours from me, and I ended up calling him and cancelling because I really wanted to invest my time into this other guy.

I ended up finally meeting the first guy, and the sparks that were on the phone were present in 3d too...smiles. I really just want to spend time with him. Now, I did not know this would be the case until I actually met him, but it turned out that way. I have only so much time, and I want to spend it with someone I really like...smiles. But I did not consider myself exclusive before we met., and it is still a new thing. But it is a wonderful feeling to want to be getting to know "just one" too.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Padriag)

Post #: 23

RE: okay, its time to get real! - 5/21/2006 11:40:42 AM

HarryVanWinkle

Posts: 1720
Joined: 5/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Can I ask a sincere question? I was wondering if you think the real foundations of a relationship can be built to the point of exclusivity over the phone and internet contact? I do not really have an opinion, but I am just curious to know if you think it is possible to know you want to be exclusive with someone without meeting first?

I don't think so. I feel that face to face contact is essential before any kind of commitment can be made. People are not always what they present themselves to be online or on the phone. And I'm not even talking about deliberate deception here. It also involves self deception. People present themselves online as what they THINK they are. You simply cannot know whether the person you're comunicating online or by phone is who and what he says he is without some real time, face to face time.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 24

RE: okay, its time to get real! - 5/21/2006 11:54:34 AM

LadiesBladewing

Posts: 944
Joined: 8/31/2005
Status: offline

The first suggestion I'd make actually isn't covered in -either- of your questions. Take Your Time! Meet the person, spend some time with him or her, don't burn any bridges, and make sure that you set a -reasonable- amount of time where you can go your separate ways "no fault". I typically suggest at -least- six months -- that's enough time for the "honeymoon" to wear thin for many, and the incompatibilities -- especially the ones where the person involved has really been pushing themselves to maintain a certain "image" -- start to show up. This is the point at which both parties usually start looking at whether they really want to have to keep working so hard and hiding so much to stay in a particular relationship.

As far as what to look for

1. Does the person talk, talk, talk, and either never ask you about what -you- are looking for in the relationship or, if he/she does ask, do they really -listen- to your answer?

2. Do they start right out making demands -- especially demands that would cut you off from your current support network?

3. Do you have to give an answer -today-? Just like when buying a car or a big-ticket item, if you aren't given time to go home and sleep on the deal, there's probably a catch?

On the positive side:

1. Does the person ask about what you're looking for out of the relationship, listen to your answer, and let you know what he or she offers to meet your needs AS WELL AS letting you know what s/he wants from the relationship and listening to your response about how you can fulfill those interests?

2. Is the person clear about expectations? Does s/he give you an idea of timeframes, respect your current responsibilities, and clearly define things like the proposed trial periods.

3. Does the person share interests with you outside of BDSM, if you're planning a long-term relationship? Have you discussed how your responsibilities and hobbies fit into a life with this person? Is this someone you could like, whether or not s/he was a potential owner?

In response to your last question, it doesn't bother us one way or the other whether someone is talking to other dominants at the same time as they are talking to us. Once a servant has agreed to serve the House, there -is- a period of time where a part-time servant would be expected to refrain from BDSM/Ds activities outside of hir service to us, and full-timers would be expected to maintain a "House-exclusive" relationship, but even then, part-time servants might bottom elsewhere or even serve here and to someone else, as long as everyone involved knows about all activities, and both dominant parties are able to clearly negotiate scheduling so that neither is slighted.

I also tell those who are considering our household to talk to people they trust about what we've discussed -- ask us where there are questions, so that everything is clear, and then bounce what we've discussed off of trusted support people. There's no reason to jump through hoops. We'll still be here, and hope that people will take time to decide.

We usually anticipate a 6-month to 1 year trial -- what we call the "novitiate year", where a person who finds that s/he is unsuited to the way that our House operates can request to leave "no fault", or where we can determine that an individual's service style isn't suited to our household and we can assist them in transitioning out of our Household. This gives everyone time to get past any assumptions or illusions about what it means to live in service. We give at least a couple and often several days to decide about starting in service -- time to get questions answered, and to talk to others about things to make sure that it's a good choice. We require our new servants to be able to be self-sustaining (job and place to live) during the novitiate year -at least-... so that if it -doesn't- work, nobody is trapped in the situation due to reduced options. This is how -we- handle taking care of new potential servants. Others have different methods -- but you will need to make sure that the provisions being made feel right to you -before- you make any decisions about investing your life in a lifestyle-based or service-based relationship.

Lady Zephyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: texasbutterfly

i have been in an online relationship for awhile now. yesterday, i finally got up the nerve to say it wasn't what i wanted anymore. i am ready for the real world now. i have been talking to a couple of dominants online for some time now who want to meet face to face. i have a couple of questions:

1) in preparing for my first ever face to face...what should i be looking for or aware of?

2) this is mainly for the dominants out there, but any input is welcome: do you prefer to be the only dom a sub is talking to, do you mind if they are meeting others in the midst of meeting with you?

if you have read any of my other posts, you know i have been looking thru the open doorway to this lifestyle for some time now...i feel like i am ready to step thru that doorway. i'm nervous, excited, a little scared, but ready.

thank you in advance for any advice you can give.

_____________________________

"Should have", "could have", "would have" and "can't" may be the most dangerous phrases in the English language.
Bladewing Enclave

(in reply to texasbutterfly)

Post #: 25

RE: okay, its time to get real! - 5/21/2006 11:59:12 AM

pissdoll

Posts: 343
Joined: 5/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Proprietrix

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy
I would recommend to anybody going to meet somebody for the first time that they ask for and get all the relevant information, driver's license number, address, car license number, etc. Give it to somebody.

I have to disagree here. Regardless of whether I am the Dominant or the submissive, the male or the female.... I'm not about to start giving out my driver's license number and home address to people I've never met. I just can't condone this, especially when I have children in my home.

i agree. if you had to have my name and address and place of employment to meet, sorry. it would never EVER happen.

i'm not a safecall kind of girl. i have had a few first meetings where the man would not take no for an answer, and a safecall does nothing for that. so to keep myself from being followed or physically mauled on first meetings, i have a male friend come along incognito and sit in the corner somewhere to keep an eye on things.

i am very honest to the man i am meeting and tell him there will be someone there watching. overdoing things a bit? maybe. but once i was follwed to my car without knowing it and that man followed me the few blocks it took for me to get home. i didn't know it right away, until he started calling and emailing me, telling me things about what i was wearing, where i was etc etc. luckily the whole thing blew over (maybe it was my threatening to call the cops) but i never want to be in that situation again.

(in reply to Proprietrix)

Post #: 26

RE: okay, its time to get real! - 5/21/2006 11:59:32 AM

Padriag

Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline

I've been down that same road many times Julia. Sometimes it has worked out and turned into a relationship, sometimes it has not. When I meet someone, whether online or in person, that I feel a connection with... I like to give it a little "private space" to see what will come of it. To me that's not making a commitment because I haven't promised that person anything nor asked for any such promises. But if a person says they have feelings for me, and I feel the same towards them... and assuming we're both being honest, then something is there and I like to see what it is before I make any decisions. If that something continues to grow, I'll continue to give it my full attention. But that's all I'm doing, giving it my full attention. I don't offer or give collars online, if I can't personally put it around her neck, its not going to happen. I don't commit to LTR anywhere but in person.

To sum up my point, I see a difference between giving something or someone my full attention vs making a commitment. I think that behavior on my part, or their part, speaks volumes about their intentions. If someone is saying they want a LTR, or saying that they have intense feelings for you, but then that same person wants to see other people and play around... well... you get my point. Its easy to tell when I really like someone, you see it in my behavior because I give that person my attention, and I withhold that attention from others. It sends a very clear message as to what my intentions are. When someone gives me their full attention, it sends that same clear message back.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 27

RE: okay, its time to get real! - 5/21/2006 12:01:25 PM

HoosierScorpio

Posts: 164
Status: offline

Texas butterfly Congratulation on taking your on line fantasy to the real world. Things to be aware of for your safety is to set a safe call with some one who either knows about your lifestyle or just say you are meeting some one for the first time. Safe call is some one you know will call you at a certain time after you meet the person. If they do not know just say you are meeting some one for the first time and they must not be afraid to call the police in case there is some problem. I know some Subs and Salves will ask for their address and when they meet ask for their driver license to be sure they are who they claim to be. If they are not willing to meeting for the first time at a public place they might be married. Set up your first meeting at a public place like a maul, restaurant or at the local munches in your area. Let the person who is your safe call to know the time and location you are meeting the person for the first time. Let your friend know the name of the guy and were he lives. Set up a code word you can use to let some know you are in trouble so they can call back 20 minutes later. Example you can use a name of a pet you do not have example fluffy or spike. This must be something the person does not realize it is your safe word. So the other person will not be alarm. The first time meeting the person do not go with them or play with then for the first time because one they tie you up you are totally helpless and any thing can happen. If they demand sex from after the first meeting run and do not go back. Take your time to get to know them for the first time. Good Masters and Dom’s will not play with you for the first time. I wish you luck and be safe out there. These are some of my own viewpoints and advice I can give you to make sure you are safe.

(in reply to texasbutterfly)

Post #: 28

RE: okay, its time to get real! - 5/21/2006 12:08:11 PM

dogobedience

Posts: 536
Joined: 3/30/2006
Status: offline

GO TO SASSHAY'S PROFILE.READ, STUDY.THEN READ IT AGAIN

_____________________________

I start and/or reply to posts to further my abilities and share my experiences in this fantastic lifestyle.

I hope I am an intellectual instigator, making people think and or laugh and nothing more.

Tiger, proud owner of kali aka Tigerproperty

(in reply to texasbutterfly)

Post #: 29

RE: okay, its time to get real! - 5/21/2006 12:28:03 PM

Clothespingirl

Posts: 82
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Sub-frenzy is when a submissive finally makes that jump from fantasy to the real world. Finally seeing and meeting a "dominant" man face to face the first time - and the need and desire to submit is so strong, she loses touch with her common sense. Rarely does anything good come from this.

Yes, I went through that, too... thank goodness for this site, otherwise I would have thought I was the only one who was such an idiot.

What it feels like is falling totally in love, very fast, in spite of any good resolutions and previous experience in life. It's the strangest experience!

After I experienced it the first time, I changed my strategy to kind of get around my own subconscious urgings. This may help other folks so I'll list what I did:

1. I deliberately made dates with a couple of men who definitely weren't looking for relationships. They were kind of my emergency supply <grin>. So when someone attractive contacted me, I would repeat to myself, "He looks great, but he is not my only chance to get laid in this lifetime!"

2. I went to to local events, watched and played. No, it wasn't any huge emotional experience, but paradoxically it helped drain off the energy. And meeting so many very ordinary people in the lifestyle was a good counterbalance for fantasy.

3. I made mistakes. I was hurt and I hurt a couple of people. But I did my damnedest to learn from each one. I refined my expectations and my profile each time. I'm learning what is essential to me and to be quickly ruthless if a man doesn't have it. Exercising my judgment like that helps keep the fantasy cobwebs away, too.

There, I hope that helps somebody.

_____________________________

"Cheeky bitch"

(in reply to FirmhandKY)

Post #: 30

RE: okay, its time to get real! - 5/21/2006 1:47:25 PM

Wulfchyld

Posts: 2618
Joined: 12/7/2005
Status: offline

Hmmm.... Not a whole lot to add here everyone is doing a good job, so I will just toss yu a few links.

http://www.collarchat.com/When_is_it_appropriate_to_advise_that_you_are_not_into_casual_play%3F/m_377570/tm.htm

http://www.collarchat.com/Connection_or_not%3F%3F/m_377933/tm.htm

http://www.collarchat.com/Stood_up%2C_on%2Dline%3F%3F/m_380941/tm.htm

http://www.collarchat.com/subs_and_weight_loss%25/m_380099/tm.htm

http://www.collarchat.com/Tone_of_voice/m_375177/tm.htm

http://www.collarchat.com/who_has_had_bad_experiences_as_a_slave_here%3F/m_366004/tm.htm

http://www.collarchat.com/Difference_bet%2FSubmission_and_Slave%3F/m_366860/tm.htm

http://www.collarchat.com/Doms%2FMasters/m_381924/tm.htm

http://www.collarchat.com/Bad_Habit_Breaking/m_381693/tm.htm

http://www.collarchat.com/How_Long_Until_Doms_Trust_Subs/m_379104/tm.htm

http://www.collarchat.com/dom_goes_mising%21/m_362068/tm.htm

This should get you to thinking about all the variables. Hope they don’t overwhelm you.

_____________________________

Loki, forum god of Mischief

Submission is not a gift... it is plunder!
Where there is a whip, there is a way!
Dom/mes of a feather, beat the f*ck out of slaves together

(in reply to Clothespingirl)

Post #: 31

RE: okay, its time to get real! - 5/21/2006 3:09:28 PM

texasbutterfly

Posts: 84
Joined: 4/17/2006
Status: offline

everyone has been so great with the advice. most of it i have already thought or heard about it, but there was some great stuff that i had not even considered...way to go team!!!

i really appreciate everyone taking the time to reply, it shows the caring side of this community that i have come to respect a great deal. thanks again for the great advice.

(in reply to Wulfchyld)

Post #: 32

RE: okay, its time to get real! - 5/21/2006 4:33:13 PM

Estring

Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Make the meeting a way to get to know the person. Put bdsm on the back burner for now. And make sure you meet at a public place.

_____________________________

Boycott Whales!

(in reply to texasbutterfly)

Post #: 33

RE: okay, its time to get real! - 5/21/2006 6:44:28 PM

MoonGoddessIsis

Posts: 38
Joined: 5/2/2006
From: Indiana
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: texasbutterfly

i have been in an online relationship for awhile now. yesterday, i finally got up the nerve to say it wasn't what i wanted anymore. i am ready for the real world now. i have been talking to a couple of dominants online for some time now who want to meet face to face. i have a couple of questions:

First let Me mirror most in saying congrats in being true to what you want and need. That is a wonderful first step!

1) in preparing for my first ever face to face...what should i be looking for or aware of?

Meet in a public place and drive yourself. If it happens to be exactly what you thought it was or isn't you have your own ride and can come and go as you please.

2) this is mainly for the dominants out there, but any input is welcome: do you prefer to be the only dom a sub is talking to, do you mind if they are meeting others in the midst of meeting with you?

Having submissives talking to other Dominants in the midst of talking to Me does not bother Me at all. I think it just strengthens and answers the questions in their mind "Is this the one?". Speaking to others shows the difference between what they want and what they don't. It is not until we get serious that the drop contact with others. Contact meaning their search... having friends whatever gender or role is a must.

if you have read any of my other posts, you know i have been looking thru the open doorway to this lifestyle for some time now...i feel like i am ready to step thru that doorway. i'm nervous, excited, a little scared, but ready.

thank you in advance for any advice you can give.

Congrats again!
In love, light and true Dominance,
Lady Moon

_____________________________

"Deja Moo: The feeling that you've heard this bull before"

(in reply to texasbutterfly)

Post #: 34

RE: okay, its time to get real! - 5/21/2006 6:49:46 PM

MoonGoddessIsis

Posts: 38
Joined: 5/2/2006
From: Indiana
Status: offline

Growls.. I am not sure why My post did that so I will post what I said again. As it seems to be all jumbled in with the orignal posting.
First let Me mirror in saying congrats in admitting what you want and need and not taking less then that. That is a wonderful first step.

Always meet in a public place and drive yourself. That way you are able to make your own choices if you want that date to go further or run as quick as you can!

As far as submissives talking to other Dominants while talking to me is something that does not bother Me. It allows them to weigh their options and find what they really want. With that said.. if it gets to the point that it is serious.. those they are "searching" with will be gone. But friendships are always a great thing to keep no matter the sex or role.

Again congrats!

In love, light, and true Dominance,
Lady Moon

_____________________________

"Deja Moo: The feeling that you've heard this bull before"

(in reply to MoonGoddessIsis)

Post #: 35

RE: okay, its time to get real! - 5/21/2006 8:55:56 PM

proudsub

Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline

This thread might help you with safety precautions:

First meeting guidelines

_____________________________

proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan

(in reply to texasbutterfly)

Post #: 36

RE: okay, its time to get real! - 5/21/2006 9:27:44 PM

petcerina

Posts: 143
Joined: 4/4/2005
Status: offline

i'm going a bit off topic cuz i don't want to answer your questions :P. But i will say this. On both occasions of meeting a Dom in real life that i liked i was so damn nervous i didn't hardly know what to do with myself. 1) i had butterfies like never before. 2) i couldn't look at them. 3) i didn't know what to do with my hands (or my body period). 4) The feeling didn't go away until generally after the meeting was over. Good luck :). It's much better in real life. i promise :)

(in reply to SEVADom)

Post #: 37

RE: okay, its time to get real! - 5/21/2006 10:19:17 PM

artglfr

Posts: 235
Joined: 4/8/2005
Status: offline

We aren't all serial phycho's BUT i do not know anyone who is going to give out their Driver license number and other pertinent info to a relative stranger. Go to the meeting with another person and if the "Dom" gets mad say "see ya!!!" It is much harder to fool two of us that are in the lifestyle. I recommend a male taking a Female that they trust with them and a Female taking a male.

any Dom that insists you be theirs and theirs alone is not being fair. If you are new do as Proprietrix suggested go to Munches and get around people who are actually in the lifestyle. Most of us play extremely safe after all We do NOT want to break our TOYS do We now?

Please, Please, please do NOT allow the first Dom that comes along to COLLAR you. I notice so many Doms feel this is so important and I do not think it is something that should be rushed into. Remember being collared can keep you from meeting other Doms and one of them may be your ONE.

_____________________________

Kink Forever
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Docents_of_Museum/

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 38

RE: okay, its time to get real! - 5/23/2006 3:27:45 AM

KennelDeSade2

Posts: 210
Joined: 9/19/2004
Status: offline

I'll take a slightly contrarian position here, in the spirit of reality. We all know the standard boilerplate, I won't rehash it.
I've had meetings where I've given the girl more information than my first ex wife had when I married her.
I've showed up to find that on her own, the girl knew more about my company and my personal life than I was aware of.
I've picked up three complete strangers off the street, and found myself in their suite in scene in under 20 minutes, and nobody had a clue where I was.
I've given out my home address, and had people I had never even spoken with an hour before, show up to play, and years later, we still do from time to time.

And every single person I know who has more than five years in the lifestyle has stories that are in the same class.

Disasters? Everybody I know has disaster stories as well. But ONE thing trumps all others as the most likely to keep you from being injured., in all venues, and situations. It's become my one single, hard and fast, do not break, never, rule. And every disasater I've ever had or heard of begins with failure to follow it.

If you meet somebody and the person or the situation gives you a gut feeling that something is not right, or you feel out of sync and out of place. LEAVE. AT ONCE.

Don't be the next one going "Well, things didn't feel right when I showed up, but I just chalked it up to nerves and went ahead" as the first thing you say about YOUR disaster.

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 39

RE: okay, its time to get real! - 5/23/2006 3:45:40 AM

allyC

Posts: 778
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HarryVanWinkle I don't think so. I feel that face to face contact is essential before any kind of commitment can be made. People are not always what they present themselves to be online or on the phone. And I'm not even talking about deliberate deception here. It also involves self deception. People present themselves online as what they THINK they are. You simply cannot know whether the person you're comunicating online or by phone is who and what he says he is without some real time, face to face time.

I think that it all depends on the extent of the communication, the time spent communicating, and if it extends to others who know the person to whom you are communicating with. I can honestly say with absolute conviction that I knew beyond any doubt that my owner was the man who would not only change my life, but that he was the man to whom I would give myself to without reservation on a permanent level. It did take a long time (and a fortune in phone bills) but when we were finally able to meet, it felt as if we had already seen each other a thousand times before - even though at the same time, everything felt so new. Perhaps for some people it isn't possible. Maybe even for most people it isn't possible. But I know that for me specifically, it was not only possible - it happened. :) Well wishes, Cav's ally

(in reply to HarryVanWinkle)

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All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: okay, its time to get real!

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