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RE: Overpopulation - 9/2/2011 4:56:43 PM

willbeurdaddy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

It is also about the availability of contraception and alternatives. Government has to have some role in this, even if it is non coercive.

Why? They add nothing to the process but expense.

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Post #: 61

RE: Overpopulation - 9/2/2011 6:18:02 PM

samboct

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Semisweet

It seems to me that we're saying the same thing- except I don't know about your arithmetic. It still seems to me that basically the rest of the world including the US is in OK shape (a lot of our population growth is through immigration, which I'm not too worried about), but that Africa is the problem. In between the US and Europe, the population changes largely cancel out. What's the problem? Bear in mind that given how abysmal forecasting is, I don't get worried unless I see changes in multiples or orders of magnitude. 10-20% here or there is in the noise.

If there are droughts in Africa, I don't see how the population can grow that quickly. Besides, the planet has plenty of water- it's only an energy problem to get rid of the salt. Also- disease has eradicated a lot of the gains in the past decades in terms of extending lifespans- which may actually have the perverse effect of increasing the birth rate. So if we'd do a better job on disease, the birth rate would likely fall. However, nature may come up with something that just wipes that population out- although the likelihood of it remaining confined is not something I'd want to bet on.

How is that different from my summary posted earlier?

Sam

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Post #: 62

RE: Overpopulation - 9/2/2011 6:36:48 PM

Aylee

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

One of the arguments against population control is who decides which group gets told, "You cannot have children" and which group gets told, "you can have children".

And zero population growth, as I understand it, says you and your partner can have a maximum of two children (your biological replacements) and no more. If you are infertile, you can adopt a biological replacement child, thus reducing the child surplus.

What penalties do you give to someone who has a child, despite the fact that they belong to a group who has been told "You cannot have children" or someone who already has their two legal children/replacements? The death penalty for the mother, the father and the child? The mother and father involuntarily sterilized and the (extra) child given to a infertile, childless couple to raise and be one of their biological replacements?

How about we increase the taxes on people who have more than 2? Or reduce/eliminate welfare for more than 2?

Ender's Game, Orson Scott Card

The big problem is that you are infringing on people's religious beliefs.

< Message edited by Aylee -- 9/2/2011 6:37:23 PM >

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Post #: 63

RE: Overpopulation - 9/2/2011 6:40:30 PM

Aylee

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quote:

ORIGINAL: samboct

Summary- overpopulation is not the ticking time bomb that we were lead to believe a couple of decades ago. Malthus was apparently in error.

Sam

Malthus was correct as far as that goes. What changed was the way crops and food animals are raised.

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Post #: 64

RE: Overpopulation - 9/2/2011 6:56:37 PM

Termyn8or

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FR

Ummm, so every person on this planet participates in a census of some type ? I am so glad all those figures are 100% accurate and guaranteed. I am so glad that each and every infant in this world is born under controlled conditions in a hospital and each and every one of them has a birth certificate so they can share in the wealth given, free of hand of course, to those in need.

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Post #: 65

RE: Overpopulation - 9/2/2011 7:05:34 PM

Aylee

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

FR

Ummm, so every person on this planet participates in a census of some type ? I am so glad all those figures are 100% accurate and guaranteed. I am so glad that each and every infant in this world is born under controlled conditions in a hospital and each and every one of them has a birth certificate so they can share in the wealth given, free of hand of course, to those in need.

Belin, New Mexico, a wonderful place to retire. For a small sum you can live on the oceanfront and do whatever you want. Cheap, I'm tellin' ya cheap !

T^T

Yes, every country has a census every once in a while. They also use birth rate and death rate stats.

While other organizations get this data as well, there is a UN committee that announces the total every year.

Does that help?

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Post #: 66

RE: Overpopulation - 9/2/2011 7:34:52 PM

Termyn8or

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So every person is counted.

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Post #: 67

RE: Overpopulation - 9/2/2011 7:38:53 PM

Aylee

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

So every person is counted.

T^T

Not exactly. Birth and death rates are used. The US only does a census every 10 years. Yet we report our population every year.

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Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

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Post #: 68

RE: Overpopulation - 9/2/2011 7:41:45 PM

Termyn8or

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And these yearly figures for which the data are only collected per decade, they are to be trusted ?

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Post #: 69

RE: Overpopulation - 9/2/2011 9:18:43 PM

Aylee

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

And these yearly figures for which the data are only collected per decade, they are to be trusted ?

T^T

Yes. Keep in mind that what they are doing is trending over time.

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Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

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Post #: 70

RE: Overpopulation - 9/3/2011 12:50:02 AM

Termyn8or

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And when I bake bread I don't have to watch the dough, just the thermometer and hygrometer. From that I can say how fast my yeast is growing. Of course I KNOW for a fact that there are no other factors, don't you ? Nothing else could possibly affect the predicted outcomes. They wouldn't dare.

I just wanted to be clear on this. This is gospel, in advance. Oh hell, wasn't it always ?

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RE: Overpopulation - 9/6/2011 8:32:44 AM

Iamsemisweet

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I have another motive for my feelings behind this issue. Wildlife preservation is very important to me. I don't see how animals in Africa or anywhere else can survive in the wild if the human population just continues to grow unchecked. And you can't convince people to preserve habitat when their children are starving. Human lives need to be improved first, but I would like there to still be elephants in the wild in Africa and wolves in the US, for that matter. Maybe there is enough water and arable land for people to survive, but the world would be a poorer place with wildlife. I don't see any of the articles that talk about the population stabilizing at 10 bill dealing with this issue, and that's the one I care about.

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RE: Overpopulation - 9/6/2011 9:15:17 PM

tweakabelle

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