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RE: Gender Roles - 9/4/2011 3:17:55 AM

HannahLynHeather

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quote:

In fact, I noticed some poor guy at the bar where I used to go dancing, one night, who was obviously fresh out of a divorce and hadn't been on the dating scene since the late 70's, who was being made fun of by many pretty little girls who were standing nearby, especially this one girl, who also kept looking over at me, in her "OMG why is a woman who is old enough to buy her own drinks here?" fashion, so I took pity on him, walked over, kissed him, and, suddenly there she was, standing at the bar, looking stunned and nervous, and obviously trying to work up the nerve to let him flirt with her. So, I walked off, walked back, told him I had to do that again, kind of pushed her out of the way and laid one on him and she tapped me on the shoulder and said "Excuse me? I was trying to have a conversation with him!" He said thank you, I left.

bull fucking shit

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RE: Gender Roles - 9/4/2011 4:10:52 AM

PeonForHer

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Well, in contrast, I am seeing younger males (hence my earlier post using the word boy, for younger male) behaving more like the females of my generation. If a woman finds them attractive but another doesn't, they take it personal, they strive to make the other one attracted to them too. I am not asking anything about politics or economics or anything like that. Just women's perspective on this from their personal experiences with men.

Yep. I remember, once, my mother commenting that 'in her day' men didn't do very much to make themselves attractive. They did the looking at, and judging of, women - they didn't think in terms of being looked at and judged by the female sex as a whole.

Funny. I'm doing some building-work in a house, now, that's occupied by six female tenants in their early twenties. All over the bathroom wall are pictures of naked men, all unbelievably pretty. That would have been embarrassing, to all parties (both to the male-house-visitors and the females who'd put up the pictures) I think even a couple of decades ago.

The usual ambivalence. Part of me thinks, 'If one sex gets looked at in that way, why shouldn't the other?' And -no surprise - it's *fun* to grab some of the attention that, traditionally, only women have had. But as a submale, maybe I just would say 'Ooh yes, see me as an object, please!', wouldn't I? Heh.

Yet, another part thinks, 'Yeah. So two wrongs make a right. Let's all join this race to the bottom.'. Watch those young males eagerly reach out for equal rights to get anorexic and, generally, as hung up about their physical appearance as women have been.

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RE: Gender Roles - 9/4/2011 9:06:20 AM

LadyHibiscus

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Those naked pics? Bet you that they came from gay porn. Where yes indeed, there is the obsession over perfection.

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RE: Gender Roles - 9/4/2011 9:57:32 AM

PeonForHer

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Wouldn't surprise me, Lady Hib.

Heh. I've got such an urge to wait till all the female tenants are out, then draw moustaches and monocles on those men's faces. However, I value my life.

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RE: Gender Roles - 9/4/2011 10:49:56 AM

Lockit

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Am I the only one that knew men that wore 501's because they knew it made their ass look bigger... and men that knew that when they bent over a pool table... we WERE looking... and men that wore certain hats and played in the mirror to work the best effect?

Or how about that guy... you know, the disco guy with the hair and thick gold chain just above the collar of his shirt, open of course, that spent an hour on his hair, spray and all, that did just about any dance step he could do... to be THAT GUY?

I thank the Tom Selleck's of the world... the Rat Pack boys, the bad boy movie star and the average Joe, for making my life interesting and causing me to be a young woman that learned to look without looking or being obvious about it until I wanted it known. I might have looked, but damn they had to open their mouth and prove their looks were worth being the candy on my arm. They had to be more and they had to treat me as more. (And the candy on my arm bit is a bit of sarcasm, although true in a way.)

I may not be 99, but even in my time... we were looking, they were being looked at and swarms of women were falling under the spell of the marketable men... like the Beetles, Elvis,The Kennedy's on and on. I knew the average Joe that could walk out of a bar with any woman he wanted... most the time. As long as there has been sex, there have been attractions and ways to get attention and from my view, everyone was working it.

It was the people of any gender that had something on the inside, that did something with their lives... that I wanted. I also wanted some pretty unattractive men and had just as much, rawr in my drawers for them as I did those pretty boys. 501's and a brain... and I was half the way there!

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RE: Gender Roles - 9/4/2011 10:50:08 AM

OttersSwim

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My point about Harrison Ford and Justin Beiber was to emphasize that what we see Madison Ave. (read - the giant advertising machine) selling us is not limited to women, it is not limited to just the young. Nor should it be given as much power as the OP has in his thoughts - very little of this has to do with the everyday lives of everyday people - which we all are.

We purchased the latest issue of Vogue this month. 748 pages of glam, fam, slam, and wham - all of it plastic and fake and made to sell us something - an image of ourselves as "desirable". I really enjoyed looking through it!

For me, this is all part of the "fantasy" of my life that at age 47 leads me to -want- to wear the little skirt - even though I know I will look nothing like Kate Moss in it. It's okay, I want to be pretty, I want to be desirable too! I see past the hype and hope and still choose to embrace a part of me that wants to be sexually active, sexually wanted, and yes, even sexually objectified - hey, it's a kink of mine, so fuckin' sue me.

So while "traditionally" all this has been sold much more heavily to females, it has always always always been there in ever increasing parts for men too. I think we are seeing more freedom of expression for males down that road these days.

As a transgendered person, frankly, I find that encouraging.

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RE: Gender Roles - 9/4/2011 11:02:46 AM

PeonForHer

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quote:

Am I the only one that knew men that wore 501's because they knew it made their ass look bigge

I don't think so, Lockit. 501s shaped up the butt quite well - made it looked more compact, if anything.

Also, by sheer accident of design - of course - by Levi-Strauss, the big buttons on the fly had the effect of accentuating the lunchpack bulge. I still think 501s were their best design ever.

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RE: Gender Roles - 9/4/2011 11:10:42 AM

Lockit

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I agree Peon! I am a 501's gal from way back... on my ass or the ass's of the men I loved checking out!

I think we need a surge of new interest in them as a matter of fact! Add a tool belt or a pool stick and whoa... lil mama is going to be very interested in finding out more about him!

I want the whole package... smarts and heart... whether he be a nerd in 501's sitting at a computer or fixing mine or the rough and tumble... they all look pretty fine!

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RE: Gender Roles - 9/4/2011 11:16:17 AM

PeonForHer

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501s were *very* flattering to the figures of both men and women. Nowadays, they seem to design jeans that deliberately do the opposite: everyone who wears them looks as though he or she has elephantiasis, as well as a truly hideous bowel complaint.

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RE: Gender Roles - 9/4/2011 11:26:41 AM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit
I'm finding this thread and some comments on it rather disturbing. Women are supposed to want to be marketed, wanted by everyone, etc. Have you seen who all is included in that everyone? I wouldn't want to be wanted by everyone... hell, not even by half of everyone. Sex sells... so therefore... women sell? What the fuck have women been striving for all these decades... to be summed up by barbie and other marketable women? Note, there wasn't a brain surgeon or rocket scientist in the mix.

Not every woman wants to be a pin up or marketable in a manner that insults women and categorizes them. Any men that wish to go there... deserve their barbie moment I guess... but those that want everyone to want them are friggin insane in my opinion or maybe they are selling something.

Because a lot of men put women in a place where they became so called, marketable, doesn't mean that a lot of us liked it or wanted it. Personally I could have lived quite well without it.

This! Getting that unwanted attention from men from 12 years old and on, i hated it. That is why i always had a boyfriend, to get rid of those other creepy sleazy guys, well, as much as possible anyway.

But then i never understood women getting fake boobs either..

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RE: Gender Roles - 9/4/2011 11:45:52 AM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

501s were *very* flattering to the figures of both men and women. Nowadays, they seem to design jeans that deliberately do the opposite: everyone who wears them looks as though he or she has elephantiasis, as well as a truly hideous bowel complaint.

depends on a persons body type, i am not a pear so until they came out with low rise jeans a few years ago, i always bought my jeans in the mens department. I just dont have wide-as-a-bus hips and a huge ass, so none of what they make for women fits me.. Now,.. I dont see any low rise pants anymore which means.. back to buying guys jeans..

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RE: Gender Roles - 9/4/2011 2:27:18 PM

Arpig

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quote:

Yep. I remember, once, my mother commenting that 'in her day' men didn't do very much to make themselves attractive.

Zoot suits, brylcream, tie dyes, flared jeans, cod pieces, pantaloons, neck ruffs......Yeah right! Sorry, but men have been dressing to impress women since the beginning of history and anybody who says otherwise is simply overlooking the facts.

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RE: Gender Roles - 9/4/2011 2:55:42 PM

metamorphic

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This thread is a total culture shock. Very educational.

Assuming everything everyone has said is true, from their experiences, it seems to me that I come from a very different sub-culture. Growing up, us guys didn't wear anything fancy enough to have a designated name like 501's or zoot suits, or the other things people have mentioned. To this day, my work outfit is a cheap, comfortable pair of jeans, and a matching T-shirt. Back in college, the nicest thing I ever wore was a leather jacket, and I only wore it when it was freezing or super windy outside. So, my experiences and all my guy friends, we never dress to impress (women or potential employers). We just kind of walk in and say hello, and it usually works out great. Seems to me like my observations in the media are more of an artificial emphasis, a sensational exaggeration, of a very real behavior that some men exhibit. Am I correct ladies?

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RE: Gender Roles - 9/4/2011 3:14:04 PM

PeonForHer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

Yep. I remember, once, my mother commenting that 'in her day' men didn't do very much to make themselves attractive.
Zoot suits, brylcream, tie dyes, flared jeans, cod pieces, pantaloons, neck ruffs......Yeah right! Sorry, but men have been dressing to impress women since the beginning of history and anybody who says otherwise is simply overlooking the facts.

What would be the point of dressing to impress women if they could just buy them? Which, very crudely speaking, they used to be able to do much more than they can now. In Jane Austen's day, a female attracted the right - wealthy - husband, or her quality of life was going to suffer forever.

Of course men have been dressing to impress women for forever and a day. Yet, things have changed in the last few decades. I think there's a narcissism about it these days that didn't exist to anything like the same degree. Can you think of a single Hollywood film star of the 1950s who had a stomach like mine? Or rock singer? Nowadays, it's pretty damned obligatory, or the actor in question doesn't take off his shirt.

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RE: Gender Roles - 9/4/2011 3:28:24 PM

MissToYouRedux

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

... Can you think of a single Hollywood film star of the 1950s who had a stomach like mine? Or rock singer? Nowadays, it's pretty damned obligatory, or the actor in question doesn't take off his shirt.

Well, they would have even then if they could.

Technology and Kinesiology advancements have made beautiful bodies more than simply genetics. I have this great 1940's pic though, courtesy of our surfing museum, of a line of surfers standing in front of their vertical boards (can anyone say phallic symbol? lol) and they *all* had washboard abs.

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RE: Gender Roles - 9/4/2011 3:40:32 PM

PeonForHer

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Oh, and before anyone asks, "Are you a narcissist then, Peon?" - I'll answer. Is a toad's arse watertight? Of course I bloody am. ;-)

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RE: Gender Roles - 9/4/2011 4:10:40 PM

tj444

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people are more informed now than they were way back then. Look at the magazine rack, there are dozens of fitness mags all lined up giving advice on how to get Peon's abs.. Gyms too, most have not been around all that long except years ago for those Shwarzenger body builder types, no 90 pound weakling would set foot in those places.. and now women sweat just as hard as the guys do.. and there is such a variety of ways to work out and new equipment... course, there is still the scalpel and lipo if all else fails..

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RE: Gender Roles - 9/4/2011 4:23:08 PM

LanceHughes

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

Am I the only one that knew men that wore 501's because they knew it made their ass look bigger

I don't think so, Lockit. 501s shaped up the butt quite well - made it looked more compact, if anything.

Also, by sheer accident of design - of course - by Levi-Strauss, the big buttons on the fly had the effect of accentuating the lunchpack bulge. I still think 501s were their best design ever.

de riguer in every gay leather bar. In western gay bars, Wranglers.
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<=== To the left, we have exhibit #6, your Honor, which shows Black 501s

< Message edited by LanceHughes -- 9/4/2011 4:28:14 PM >

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RE: Gender Roles - 9/4/2011 4:23:36 PM

metamorphic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

people are more informed now than they were way back then. Look at the magazine rack, there are dozens of fitness mags all lined up giving advice on how to get Peon's abs.. Gyms too, most have not been around all that long except years ago for those Shwarzenger body builder types, no 90 pound weakling would set foot in those places.. and now women sweat just as hard as the guys do.. and there is such a variety of ways to work out and new equipment... course, there is still the scalpel and lipo if all else fails..

and yet the number of morbidly obese Americans is higher than it ever was (50 years ago included) and that number is growing.
its gotten to the point where doctors had to step in and force fast food chains to post calories for their meals, not to mention include full nutritional pamphlets inside the store should a customer choose to request one.

fad diets and bogus workouts (such as what you find in men's health or men's fitness these days) are not the "cause" of guys getting washboard abs.
they are more a reflection of guys "wanting" abs like Peon's and those companies praying on those in want.

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RE: Gender Roles - 9/4/2011 4:32:22 PM

LanceHughes

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
<snipped>
Also, by sheer accident of design - of course - by Levi-Strauss, the big buttons on the fly had the effect of accentuating the lunchpack bulge. I still think 501s were their best design ever.

501s ARE their best design ever. Still avaiable, but at a pretty penny. Last ones I bought - about a year ago were USD $60. I almost asked, "Is that for two pair or three?"

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