RE: Screw the Roses....

RE: Screw the Roses.... (Full Version)

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HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Screw the Roses.... (9/7/2011 10:12:11 PM)
No, the old one was gayer, this one is definitely better.

M4S73R -> RE: Screw the Roses.... (9/7/2011 10:20:38 PM)
Never saw the old one, but with as gay as what he has now, im not sure id want to.

LadyPact -> RE: Screw the Roses.... (9/8/2011 12:22:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NocturnalStalker I'm planting the seeds, hopefully somebody sprinkles some water. No. That's called you wanting others to do what you're not willing to do. Enough said. quote: Bullshit: how can a topic related to that type of play be "too in depth?" What are you going to teach me how to do the Old Guard handshake? Do the Safety Word Dance? You could easily explain it in that topic yet never do. It is always, "My inbox is open, send a message." Is this some sort of bizarre ego-stroke of having someone seek you out like you're the Grand Vizier of Bloodplay/Knifeplay/whateverplay? Funny you should mention it. I just wrote a couple of responses regarding Old Guard in the last couple of weeks. Over the course of those all those posts (that many people complain that I post too much) I've had responses on cuttings, needings, fire, cupping, electrical, florentine flogging, long whips, rape play scenarios, kidnapping, resistance and role play, leather care, high protocol dinners, book suggestions, how we created our poly household, dungeon monitors, collaring ceremonies, branding, sounds, capping ceremonies, old leather, positive experiences of events, reviews of demos that I've attended, hints on organizing events, and various books (including this one). Those are just the ones that I remember off of the top of My head. (The bolded ones are those that I presented on at various groups/clubs.) Some of the above are not introductory subjects and really aren't suited to try to "instruct" anybody on this kind of venue. When I do them at groups, they are 90 minute classes that include a written handout to go along with the live demonstration part. (The DM class is much longer.) I spent over a decade to learn all of the above. I did that by books, attending other people's demonstrations, working on My own demos, private instruction from people more experiences than Me, and other educational ventures. No. I'm really not going to sit here and type out the Reader's Digest version of it all in hopes that I don't miss something and somebody out there takes the safety issues less than seriously. quote: There are many forums out there that actually serve their purpose and help whatever the case may be. It could be a vanilla dating website such as Plenty of Fish, it could be a fitness website, a website about having long hair, a website for mixing drinks, a website for video-games, a website for cutting meat. Obviously I am not a regular to those sites, but I would wager that those I have used in the past to seek an answer have always kept the "General Whatever" sub-forum to actually being on-topic and a helpful place that in the end increases interest to go back there again. I don't understand how you cannot grasp that. Probably because I have no way to know. I'm not on other forums except for Fet. On most groups there, the same things happen. I don't really think those two are anything to base a conclusion on how forums go everywhere. quote: The same amount of times you have attempted to turn the argument into a personal attack on me. Stay on track. That's a crock. quote: So someone in your position isn't obligated to answer a question that they may know because the Search feature should be the one-stop solution? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like you're denying any possible stimulating discussion from taking place that would actually teach as well as enlighten others that happen by it. Like everybody else, I'm not required to do anything but abide by TOS. It's not a case of the folks who have been around here longer have to bow down to everything folks with less experience want. The discussions that I'm having, whether private or public, suit Me just fine. If I know that I've already typed up something more in-depth in the past than I'm willing to do at the moment, I'll mention an old thread. Think of it in the same way as folks have come along and answered the question about the book that's being discussed. It very much is a beginner book, so it's not necessarily going to have the same appeal to somebody who has been doing these things for years as it is to somebody brand new. The folks who already have basic knowledge just aren't going to necessarily want to put in the same kind of effort as those who are just learning. quote: Which is why the repeating of questions is not just a waste of bandwidth as most are quick to dismiss. It can be good to have a fresh perspective by someone that held a different one before. If I was to use the Search option and see that LadyPact from 2005 said that Knifeplay was too dumb/dangerous to try and some others agreed, I wouldn't bother making the topic on my curiosity concerning it at all (obviously you never said that, it was an example). In all sincerity, that would be your issue, not Mine. Just about any kink or type of play mentioned here is going to have it's dissenters. I seem to recall that you have mentioned on a number of threads your negative thoughts on blood play in particular. So, because you're "new" you can feel free to share your personal opinion on the matter. Yet, because I'm "old" and I tell people that if they are going to get into edgier forms of play that they might want to take a class or find a person who is experienced in it, that's not a good idea? quote: Think logically for a moment: I already am, but keep going. quote: What about that electro-play topic I referenced in my previous post do people remember most? That one of the regulars here threw a little hissy-fit and the actual question was largely ignored save for a few odd posts. The problem is that you have to sift through all the stuff unrelated to get to anything that holds any kind of merit. The more this stuff happens, the less and less legitimate participation occurs. Here's what I would do if that was a thread that I created. Those posts that did answer the question, I'd hit that nice little PM button and ask that person for further info. If I couldn't do that, I'd type "electrical play" into the search box with that person's name in the "author" box and start reading. quote: They also tell people to go kill themselves. What great content. The last time I said something even remotely close to that is because somebody came here to these boards saying he wanted to off himself because he had red hair, light skin, and freckles basically wanting some kind of pity party. (In response, I told a South Park joke.) Anybody coming to these forums saying that is the reason they want to commit suicide isn't rational in the first place. quote: To deviate slightly, what were those moments? Whoops. Got ahead of Myself there. See above. quote: Oh I'll be the first to admit I have my moments but they are more apparent due to how this place operates. It might as well be a warzone or a circus. If somebody has an issue with me I invite them to mail me about it but they have to impress the gallery. Hold on - gotta watch an episode of South Park before I go on my insulting spree. I happen to like South Park. Most of the time, people get the humor. It certainly wasn't the first SP joke I've told around here and I can promise I will do it again. quote: It's not just about me, but it is about the average Joe/Jane that comes by and maybe they aren't very good at typing or whatever. Does that make their question any less relevant than if I was to type it out? Christ, it's like watching a teacher's lounge find out they won't be getting that new couch. Here's the thing. I'm actually not here to pat new folks on the head. Never have been. Does it make their question less relevant to them? No. Does it make it less relevant to Me? Yes. See, we old folks just really aren't here to serve every new person who comes along and decides to type up a question. We're here for our own purposes. Whether that is entertainment, socializing, or anything else (including those times that we do take the time out to write a long, drawn out response such as I'm doing here), we're really not beholding to anybody. There are threads that I'm more generous with My time than others. It's not going to happen each and every time. quote: A post relating to wax-play that is helpful is much more worthwhile than one without. I believe the original intentions of these forums were to make certain discussions occur in certain sub-forums. Otherwise we may as well just have one gargantuan OT festival. If you're talking about sections of the forums, I'm half with you and half not. I really don't think the M boards necessarily had to be split, but the rest is pretty close. quote: The bigger picture is that I have to kiss a lot of ass. That is another subject I don't know how to do. I think it's more that you have to accept that not everybody is willing to repeat themselves on a constant basis. As I see it, if you're the one who wants the information, it might just be a case of you having to do some work for it, rather than expecting it to be done over and over for each new person who comes along. This is why we have a search feature (I believe) to begin with and why some of those books were written all those years ago in the first place. It allows for that information to be cataloged so that any person can find it.

NocturnalStalker -> RE: Screw the Roses.... (9/8/2011 1:26:10 AM)
quote: No. That's called you wanting others to do what you're not willing to do. Enough said. What good is it if I'm the only one who offers advice if a majority of other people are not going to? Regardless, it seems that the sad state of this forum has been brought to VAA's attention so hopefully some change will come out of it. quote: I spent over a decade to learn all of the above. I did that by books, attending other people's demonstrations, working on My own demos, private instruction from people more experiences than Me, and other educational ventures. No. I'm really not going to sit here and type out the Reader's Digest version of it all in hopes that I don't miss something and somebody out there takes the safety issues less than seriously. I skipped to this part because this is really what it is all about. It's all about "How things used to be." Yeah, you did have to go to meetings, demonstrations, get books, have personal sessions with others and other "get out there" adventures. If it worked for you, I'm glad, good. Here's the problem; we're in 2011. Things are a lot different now and information is easier to obtain than ever thanks to advances in technology. Why should somebody go to a munch/lecture when they can just read it in a transcript by someone else? Why should they attend a demonstration when they can have a video put on a site for them to take as a tutorial? Have you considered leaving behind all the 90's stuff and putting your knowledge to a more global scale by supplying visual instructions and written words? I would think somebody that has amassed such a wealth of information on all this stuff would be eager to share it, especially with BDSM becoming increasingly tolerable. Isn't there some guy here named ResidentSadist who has his own site/writes articles or whatever? He is an older gentleman who actually supplies something to people and shares what he knows. quote: Like everybody else, I'm not required to do anything but abide by TOS. It's not a case of the folks who have been around here longer have to bow down to everything folks with less experience want. The discussions that I'm having, whether private or public, suit Me just fine. If I know that I've already typed up something more in-depth in the past than I'm willing to do at the moment, I'll mention an old thread. Obviously I cannot do much to sway your method but I would think somebody that went through the trouble of searching through who-knows-how-many-pages to find their post on a particular subject could have spent that time typing a few lines to sum up an older post they typed out a year or so ago. If you're bothering to help, it might as well be in the present and not the Internet version of throwing a book at someone. quote: Just about any kink or type of play mentioned here is going to have it's dissenters. I seem to recall that you have mentioned on a number of threads your negative thoughts on blood play in particular. So, because you're "new" you can feel free to share your personal opinion on the matter. Yet, because I'm "old" and I tell people that if they are going to get into edgier forms of play that they might want to take a class or find a person who is experienced in it, that's not a good idea? Actually I have more negative thoughts for those "daddy/girl" kinks. Which actually is a good point to bring up now that I think about it. I posted in a topic one day that related to it something that was mildly offensive but also asked a question as to why this sort of play was not seen as exploitative if going by the terms of a 60 year old/20 year old. I was met with constant personal attacks which didn't surprise me, and my posts deleted with my question remaining unanswered. The people that have experience in such a dynamic should probably try to shed some light on it, don't you think? Otherwise, to use the daddy/girl kink again, it just looks like a filthy old man getting a trophy and a girl getting slightly richer. That's my current way of seeing it, however. It is subject to change. quote: Here's what I would do if that was a thread that I created. Those posts that did answer the question, I'd hit that nice little PM button and ask that person for further info. If I couldn't do that, I'd type "electrical play" into the search box with that person's name in the "author" box and start reading. If you created that thread would you also think that all the negativity in those posts that answered nothing meant this forum rubbed you the wrong way? Imagine if you didn't have to go out of your way to private messaging and could simply talk about your topic as you originally intended. Utopia, is it not? quote: The last time I said something even remotely close to that is because somebody came here to these boards saying he wanted to off himself because he had red hair, light skin, and freckles basically wanting some kind of pity party. (In response, I told a South Park joke.) Anybody coming to these forums saying that is the reason they want to commit suicide isn't rational in the first place. Relax - I wasn't singling you out. I recall a minor squabble that briefly happened a few days ago where a member told another one to go and end their existence on Earth. They were also one of those "young types that had content" in their posts that you cited as an example. quote: I happen to like South Park. Most of the time, people get the humor. It certainly wasn't the first SP joke I've told around here and I can promise I will do it again. Ah, South Park is so hit-and-miss. Sometimes there can be funny episodes and sometimes they are too gross. I'm more of a Simpsons guy. Seasons 3-11, specifically. quote: See, we old folks just really aren't here to serve every new person who comes along and decides to type up a question. We're here for our own purposes. Whether that is entertainment, socializing, or anything else (including those times that we do take the time out to write a long, drawn out response such as I'm doing here), we're really not beholding to anybody. There are threads that I'm more generous with My time than others. It's not going to happen each and every time. But here is where I have to come in and ask, "why are you participating on this forum if you don't intend to talk about what the main attraction is?" Perhaps there are times you cannot be bothered to answer a thread for whatever reason, but if you're going to boast about your accolades and not put them to use then you are better off not talking about them at all. If I wanted entertainment, I'd go to the movies. If I want to socialize, I'll go to my study group. If I want to talk fetishes, I'll come here. That's how I work, though. I mean it is obvious you have friendships here, so why not have a Facebook to keep your socializing with them? That way you can still keep your social atmosphere in a more confined/controlled place, still answer questions you feel you can contribute to, and stop posting so damn much. Yes, I tried a joke. quote: As I see it, if you're the one who wants the information, it might just be a case of you having to do some work for it, rather than expecting it to be done over and over for each new person who comes along. Not just me, but many others like me. In this argument don't think of me as just myself in here but more representing those that are inquisitive and those that feel the quality has lowered dramatically.

DeviantlyD -> RE: Screw the Roses.... (9/8/2011 2:20:58 AM)
Gee, who knew you could type so much? tl;dr

LadyPact -> RE: Screw the Roses.... (9/8/2011 2:46:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NocturnalStalker What good is it if I'm the only one who offers advice if a majority of other people are not going to? Regardless, it seems that the sad state of this forum has been brought to VAA's attention so hopefully some change will come out of it. It might cut down some of the interruptions, but I still think people will be here for their own purposes. We'll see how it turns out. quote: I skipped to this part because this is really what it is all about. It's all about "How things used to be." Yeah, you did have to go to meetings, demonstrations, get books, have personal sessions with others and other "get out there" adventures. If it worked for you, I'm glad, good. Here's the problem; we're in 2011. Things are a lot different now and information is easier to obtain than ever thanks to advances in technology. Why should somebody go to a munch/lecture when they can just read it in a transcript by someone else? Why should they attend a demonstration when they can have a video put on a site for them to take as a tutorial? Have you considered leaving behind all the 90's stuff and putting your knowledge to a more global scale by supplying visual instructions and written words? I would think somebody that has amassed such a wealth of information on all this stuff would be eager to share it, especially with BDSM becoming increasingly tolerable. No, I honestly haven't and I'm going to tell you why. I prefer showing people how to do things in person and that's not going to change. I like being there the first time they try it so they can ask questions that I might not have covered or see the look on their face when they are giving it their first shot. The other stuff you mention, doesn't really have a positive to it for Me. It's the stuff that I already know. Sticking it on the net doesn't benefit Me. I'm not having fun doing it. Knock the old ways all you want. They still work for people like Me. You can't argue with success and as long as it continues to be successful and joyful for Me, that's what I'm going to continue to do. quote: Isn't there some guy here named ResidentSadist who has his own site/writes articles or whatever? He is an older gentleman who actually supplies something to people and shares what he knows. Does he? You should seek those out. If he's willing to put the work into it, more power to him. Not everybody is wanting to make that kind of investment. quote: Obviously I cannot do much to sway your method but I would think somebody that went through the trouble of searching through who-knows-how-many-pages to find their post on a particular subject could have spent that time typing a few lines to sum up an older post they typed out a year or so ago. If you're bothering to help, it might as well be in the present and not the Internet version of throwing a book at someone. I proverbially throw books at people quite often. Frankly, books are more detailed, they tend to be written by folks who are well experienced, often include additional resources, and are far more thorough than I would ever be. I did a quick check. As this page sits now, at least eleven of the topics currently on this section are covered in that book. For those who like it or don't like it, the information is absolutely presented. quote: Actually I have more negative thoughts for those "daddy/girl" kinks. Which actually is a good point to bring up now that I think about it. I posted in a topic one day that related to it something that was mildly offensive but also asked a question as to why this sort of play was not seen as exploitative if going by the terms of a 60 year old/20 year old. I was met with constant personal attacks which didn't surprise me, and my posts deleted with my question remaining unanswered. I can probably find you a thread on that and why it might have been received that way. It was a pretty good thread and might have some insight that you haven't seen before. Wait. That's right. You don't care for the old threads. The person who started it isn't currently posting at this time, but the topic she brought was darn good. quote: The people that have experience in such a dynamic should probably try to shed some light on it, don't you think? Otherwise, to use the daddy/girl kink again, it just looks like a filthy old man getting a trophy and a girl getting slightly richer. That's my current way of seeing it, however. It is subject to change. I'd say that's entirely up to the individual. They really don't have to justify or explain their kinks to you. Do you explain your kinks to other people when the person you are trying to make understand is coming from a position of negativity? quote: If you created that thread would you also think that all the negativity in those posts that answered nothing meant this forum rubbed you the wrong way? Imagine if you didn't have to go out of your way to private messaging and could simply talk about your topic as you originally intended. Utopia, is it not? No, but then again, I'm just the type of person that will go out of My way to get what I want. I don't have some sense of entitlement that people have to do it for Me. If I want something bad enough, I will find a way. It doesn't bother Me if I have to put a little more into it than what might seem to be the easiest way. For the record, I absolutely have made posts here that I've been nailed to the wall over. I'm still here. quote: Relax - I wasn't singling you out. I recall a minor squabble that briefly happened a few days ago where a member told another one to go and end their existence on Earth. They were also one of those "young types that had content" in their posts that you cited as an example. I don't mind that you did. I made a joke and have no issue with taking full responsibility for it. quote: Ah, South Park is so hit-and-miss. Sometimes there can be funny episodes and sometimes they are too gross. I'm more of a Simpsons guy. Seasons 3-11, specifically. This one is completely off topic, but I haven't been big on Simpson's for a while. You might like that SP episode that was all about how Simpson's had already done every idea out there, which were all ideas that were stolen from somebody else. Kind of like how most stuff goes in BDSM. quote: But here is where I have to come in and ask, "why are you participating on this forum if you don't intend to talk about what the main attraction is?" Perhaps there are times you cannot be bothered to answer a thread for whatever reason, but if you're going to boast about your accolades and not put them to use then you are better off not talking about them at all. If I wanted entertainment, I'd go to the movies. If I want to socialize, I'll go to my study group. If I want to talk fetishes, I'll come here. That's how I work, though. How do you know that I'm not? Just because I might not go in depth on every question around here doesn't mean that I'm not talking about the subject somewhere else. The place doesn't just belong to folks who are just starting out. Sometimes, a conversation that is started here gets carried over to a specific person on the other side because we are talking about technique or the last scene that we did regarding that kind of play or some other thing. We don't have to feel that we're supposed to constantly explain everything and sometimes just talk because the private conversation doesn't take nearly as long. Experienced people have just as much right to the entertainment value of the place as the new folks have for wanting to be educated. quote: I mean it is obvious you have friendships here, so why not have a Facebook to keep your socializing with them? That way you can still keep your social atmosphere in a more confined/controlled place, still answer questions you feel you can contribute to, and stop posting so damn much. Yes, I tried a joke. Here I thought you had noticed the post where I said that I don't have facebook. [8D] quote: Not just me, but many others like me. In this argument don't think of me as just myself in here but more representing those that are inquisitive and those that feel the quality has lowered dramatically. I know we're just not understanding each other here, but I really am trying to impress upon you that I already have that. It's there in the way that I want it through the in-person stuff. It's much more My style to take things on a case by case basis and put the amount of time into it as interests Me. While a lot of folks have talked on this thread about things they didn't like about the book because it doesn't suit them just right, I do have to say that it speaks a lot about getting out and learning. It just so happens to be My preferred method of teaching as well. Edited - quoting.

zephyroftheNorth -> RE: Screw the Roses.... (9/8/2011 3:09:02 AM)
quote: What about that electro-play topic I referenced in my previous post do people remember most? That one of the regulars here threw a little hissy-fit and the actual question was largely ignored save for a few odd posts. The problem is that you have to sift through all the stuff unrelated to get to anything that holds any kind of merit. The more this stuff happens, the less and less legitimate participation occurs. Ironic much? Considering that the vast majority of your posts have nothing to do with the subject it's a bit rich to complain about this sort of thing don't you think.

zephyroftheNorth -> RE: Screw the Roses.... (9/8/2011 3:25:41 AM)
quote: So excuse me for interrupting the same old shit to present the glaring issue as to why this place is turning into a deadpool. And yet you did. If you feel so strongly about this why not start a thread about it? No seriously why not? Yet instead of doing that you thought it better to derail this one. Interesting.

M4S73R -> RE: Screw the Roses.... (9/8/2011 3:25:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth quote: What about that electro-play topic I referenced in my previous post do people remember most? That one of the regulars here threw a little hissy-fit and the actual question was largely ignored save for a few odd posts. The problem is that you have to sift through all the stuff unrelated to get to anything that holds any kind of merit. The more this stuff happens, the less and less legitimate participation occurs. Ironic much? Considering that the vast majority of your posts have nothing to do with the subject it's a bit rich to complain about this sort of thing don't you think. This +1

Endivius -> RE: Screw the Roses.... (9/8/2011 3:36:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NocturnalStalker What about that electro-play topic I referenced in my previous post do people remember most? That one of the regulars here threw a little hissy-fit and the actual question was largely ignored save for a few odd posts. The problem is that you have to sift through all the stuff unrelated to get to anything that holds any kind of merit. The more this stuff happens, the less and less legitimate participation occurs. I recieved 7 Cmails with usefull references, as well as five references in that thread from different people. Of those references, 0 were from you. You'll notice I did not respond to any of the "insult" posts with the exception of HML post regarding subs/slaves, wich I aknowledged as being short sighted. You want to stop seing B.S. posts on the forums? Stop being part of the problem.

Arturas -> RE: Screw the Roses.... (9/8/2011 9:58:09 AM)
F.R. If you are a guy trying to start out right and learn the right and wrong places to flog, how to create scenes and mind fucks, how to even tie basic bondage knots and why one needs medical blunt ended scissors in their tool kit and even how to correctly practice flogging without a sub for hours and days so you don't make a fool of yourself the first time you try with a girl (by using pillows with the right size targets painted on them at the right spacing as read in L.D.), then both Screw the Roses Send me the Thorns and The Loving Dominant both cover some very impressive and comprehensive territory. With that knowledge and the right attitude one can step into a lifestyle club and perform with a measure of confidence that would be completely lacking without this instruction and practice (what, you think we just jump in and start doing the Dom thing from birth? Being a Dom means having confidence and that comes with knowledge and practice). Both these books were written for the budding Dom and I used them as primers and I suspect other Dom's have also to their great advantage.

CeriseNin -> RE: Screw the Roses.... (9/8/2011 10:19:50 AM)
I read this book when I first got into BDSM, so to speak, and as a result, I totally believed that I should be coddled and somewhat catered to and that if I wasn't, my D-type didn't really care about my well-being. There's a bit in there where, IIRC, they write about how 24/7 isn't reality or some such, so I thought I must be screwed in the head to want a power dynamic that wasn't bedroom only. Now, perhaps they didn't intend for the book to be taken that way, but I can't be the only noob who drew those conclusions from their words. It's not a terrible book. There was some good stuff in there, but I mostly felt alienated while reading it, because, IMO, the book came across as this is how a true dom behaves, and this is how the true dom should behave toward the submissive. If the dom doesn't, then he/she is a player. They didn't write that, but I felt like there was a lot of subtext going on. Just my opinion though. YMMV, to each their own.

littlewonder -> RE: Screw the Roses.... (9/8/2011 10:53:47 AM)
Thank you CeriseNin. This was exactly my point early on. The book comes across this way to newbies who think this is the way it's done and then they come here to c.com to complain about how they're being abused and that's not the way it's supposed to be done because the bible of bdsm told them that's not how it's done...they read it there so it must be true and the only way. This is why I say all it takes is a little common sense and to be told that bdsm is not any different from any other relationship in the world. If you suck at relationships in any other way you'll suck just as bad in a bdsm way.

CeriseNin -> RE: Screw the Roses.... (9/8/2011 11:43:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littlewonder Thank you CeriseNin. This was exactly my point early on. The book comes across this way to newbies who think this is the way it's done and then they come here to c.com to complain about how they're being abused and that's not the way it's supposed to be done because the bible of bdsm told them that's not how it's done...they read it there so it must be true and the only way. This is why I say all it takes is a little common sense and to be told that bdsm is not any different from any other relationship in the world. If you suck at relationships in any other way you'll suck just as bad in a bdsm way. Oh so true.

NocturnalStalker -> RE: Screw the Roses.... (9/8/2011 12:59:22 PM)
quote: It might cut down some of the interruptions, but I still think people will be here for their own purposes. We'll see how it turns out. Then it looks like they may have to find a new playground if the moderation methods improve. quote: No, I honestly haven't and I'm going to tell you why. I prefer showing people how to do things in person and that's not going to change. I like being there the first time they try it so they can ask questions that I might not have covered or see the look on their face when they are giving it their first shot. Oh you can keep doing that but as long as you understand that it is an outdated way of thinking. It's like using a textbook when you could get that same textbook on your laptop and don't have to worry about spilling your drink on it. quote: The other stuff you mention, doesn't really have a positive to it for Me. It's the stuff that I already know. Sticking it on the net doesn't benefit Me. I'm not having fun doing it. Or maybe because when it is brought on a wider platform such as the Internet you're also more open to criticism and as some have shown, they don't deal with that too well. quote: Knock the old ways all you want. They still work for people like Me. You can't argue with success and as long as it continues to be successful and joyful for Me, that's what I'm going to continue to do. The part that disturbs me most is your unwillingness to at least try it and see how it works out. I know all about being stubborn and this is being stubborn. quote: Does he? You should seek those out. If he's willing to put the work into it, more power to him. Not everybody is wanting to make that kind of investment. It seems he has stopped posting. I wonder why. quote: I proverbially throw books at people quite often. Frankly, books are more detailed, they tend to be written by folks who are well experienced, often include additional resources, and are far more thorough than I would ever be. Like this book here? I see many people criticizing it and leading me to believe that they can offer more of an up-to-date insight in terms of an introduction. Let me shine some perspective on this for you: when this book was published, I was starting kindergarten and one of the authors is dead now. Some books can be timeless, but when a book written at a time when the world was still not ready for BDSM to breakthrough is cited to be a great introduction and to think it may have too much beating around the bush to try and convince the readers of the past that it wasn't so bad? Sorry, if I want good literature I'd read good literature. I want something fresh, today, and scientific. Not a fuckin' labyrinth of words. That is something someone such as yourself could easily provide since you still participate in these activities today. quote: I'd say that's entirely up to the individual. They really don't have to justify or explain their kinks to you. Do you explain your kinks to other people when the person you are trying to make understand is coming from a position of negativity? Of course I would and I would explain my position behind them to the best extent I could provide. I don't cry for the teacher to come and sit me in the corner. That just tells me they have as much of an idea that I do. Explaining kinks is what some people have had to do to make many people that practice this not look like candidates to becoming a serial killer. quote: No, but then again, I'm just the type of person that will go out of My way to get what I want. I don't have some sense of entitlement that people have to do it for Me. If I want something bad enough, I will find a way. It doesn't bother Me if I have to put a little more into it than what might seem to be the easiest way. It would be great if you used that whole, "people should do what I do" idea for something more productive like what I suggested above. Not that your word is gospel but it is at least something to go by. quote: How do you know that I'm not? Just because I might not go in depth on every question around here doesn't mean that I'm not talking about the subject somewhere else. Because these forums suck and it is because people using it for ulterior motives that you yourself have admitted to. The participation is scarce while the, "Oh how was your day today, Frank?" is at an all-time high. It's pathetic. quote: I know we're just not understanding each other here Let me stop you right here because this is what is most elucidating. You have your thoughts, I have mine, and it is obvious we're not going to see eye-to-eye here. Now currently the forums seem to keep you content and you have no long-standing issue with it like myself or others do. We've been experiencing Facebook 2.0 for a little too long now. Let's try something different and something that may breathe more life into the place in general.

NocturnalStalker -> RE: Screw the Roses.... (9/8/2011 1:10:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth quote: So excuse me for interrupting the same old shit to present the glaring issue as to why this place is turning into a deadpool. And yet you did. If you feel so strongly about this why not start a thread about it? No seriously why not? Yet instead of doing that you thought it better to derail this one. Interesting. My first two posts in this thread gave my opinion on the book/books on BDSM in general. It was challenged in a way that was lead to believe you could learn something from here, I gave my honest opinion, it was challenged again, I gave my honest opinion again, a guy with no shirt on called me gay a few times, more arguing and it has brought us to this point. Let me rewind your mind. quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael If they can't learn from writting, what the fuck are all of you do writing here? This implied to me that this place actually has something to learn. I thought about it, and I said, "That's not really true." Allow me to also dawn this startling epiphany on you that it takes two people to derail/hijack. You tossed the word "irony" out there, so it is ironic that you're complaining about me hijacking the thread when your post added nothing to the original topic.

SuzeCheri -> RE: Screw the Roses.... (9/8/2011 1:11:57 PM)
quote: Let's try something different and something that may breathe more life into the place in general. So start an interesting thread. Put up or shut up.

NocturnalStalker -> RE: Screw the Roses.... (9/8/2011 1:19:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SuzeCheri quote: Let's try something different and something that may breathe more life into the place in general. So start an interesting thread. Put up or shut up. That's the thing: I've so far experimented on my own and have found what works for me and am complacent with that. It's no thanks to anybody here. Oh yes, I still am curious about certain activities for the future but that is for tomorrow and not in the here and now. If the willingness to help improves? I'll post a topic asking. If it remains the same? Well looks like I better get my lab coat on. And it can't just be answered because I made the topic. I don't want to get any royalty or way to say, "There! We showed him!" I would like it to be a consistent flow for any one. From the NocturnalStalkers to the SuzeCheris of the forum.

ThundersCry -> RE: Screw the Roses.... (9/8/2011 1:33:37 PM)
I had the book at one time, and there were a few good ideas in it...basic stuff, actually I have no clue where it is, to bad it was a first edition soft cover...tsk tsk I figured if I wanted to learn to beat someone I was going to have to be beat...if I wanted to top/dom someone, I was going to have to bottom and submit...if I was going to master someone, I would give it my best at being a slave to someone... Screw the books give me some skin -L-

zephyroftheNorth -> RE: Screw the Roses.... (9/8/2011 2:10:10 PM)
quote: My first two posts in this thread gave my opinion on the book/books on BDSM in general. It was challenged in a way that was lead to believe you could learn something from here, I gave my honest opinion, it was challenged again, I gave my honest opinion again, a guy with no shirt on called me gay a few times, more arguing and it has brought us to this point. Let me rewind your mind. And all that is great except I was referring to your starting a thread on how fucked up the forums are which is actually clear from the post I quoted. Methinks that you are reluctant to start a thread for some reason. I guess you are more comfortable derailing a thread so that the convo is buried in the middle of another thread.

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