RE: fucken Huff post is racist! (Full Version)

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MileHighM -> RE: fucken Huff post is racist! (9/8/2011 1:52:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
FR

Motive and extenuating circumstances have been part of the law for how many centuries and NOW all murders should be the same? and should be treated identically?
Not going to happen, because life has shades of grey, not absolutes.
There is a reason for that too.
motive goes to how many levels of murder /manslaughter, accidental, reckless etc etc
you are never going to get rid of those , hate crimes are never going to go away either and neither should the penalties

Yes Lucy, but you more or less just have to prove motive. There is often no distinction of what that motive is in the law. Murder doesn't even require a clear motive. It could be the result of wreckless behaviour. While I agree there are many shades of grey, what violent crimes aren't committed out of hate, jealousy, or greed?

Some people do it because they hate rich people, or poor people, or cheaters, or better people, or worse people, democrat, republican, snitches, etc, etc. What is to say that one form of hate is worse than another. If the law does an inadiquate job of punishing murderers, than I say up the penalties across the board, let's not pick and choose lesser forms of hate and give them a nod of reluctant approval.



LafayetteLady -> RE: fucken Huff post is racist! (9/8/2011 1:53:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: VioletGray


quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

And isn't playing the blame game just what you are doing? Yes, racism exists. It clearly exists in YOUR statements.

That's the point. Hatred isn't restricted to one group no matter how much minorities try to claim it is.


Really? When have you heard people of color make this claim?


Are YOU the one I was referring to? No. Read the posts of the person I was referring to. His statements are full of racism and bigotry and hate. Deal with it.

quote:

A black guy mugs a white woman and some radical like Al Sharpton will just about try to justify the guy's actions, blaming slavery (that he has to go back more than 3 generations in his family too find), the 'white' government, etc.


DUDE, have to taken a look at our president? He denies his WHITE heritage, instead looking to the black father who was barely part of his life. But yep, the government is all for the whites. The Civils Rights Act, hate crime enhancments, affirmative action were all to benefit the whites.

Are you really trying to say that these things exist to give people of color an advantage? Oh about if the playing field were level then we wouldn't have needed these programs in the first place?

A level playing field does not include lowering the necessary test scores for some people. I don't disagree that requiring the employment of minorities was necessary, however, requiring the hiring of them or educating of them when they don't meet the requirements isn't leveling the playing field, it is setting a person up for failure because they can't keep up.

Two young men want to go to Harvard. One is black, one is white. The white guy scores very high on his SATs, while the black guy scores just average. Harvard rejects the white guy and admits the black guy because of affirmative action.

The white guy goes to a "lesser" school, and makes honors throughout. The black guy struggles, but continues to pass because the professors allow for a passing grade to be lower for black students.

Both graduate and apply to law school. Harvard requires LSATS over 175 for acceptance for whites, but the black guy only needs a score of 150 for acceptance? Sounding "level" to you? The black guy again gains admittance over the white guy having scored 155 on the LSATS compared to the white guy's score of 180.

White guy again goes to a "lesser" school, but whizes through because it isn't that challenging to him. Black guy, he struggles. He is working very hard, but he just isn't smart enough. Not because he is black, but because he just isn't smart enough. Again, black guy is passing because he can do so with lower grades than his white classmates.

Now black guy takes the bar exam. Again, he needs a lower score to pass than his white colleagues.

So because of the lower score, black guy gains admission to the bar. Goes to court and I guess, with affirmative action, we should accept less persuasive arguments from him as well.

Do you see how that isn't a level playing field? When all criteria are the same, requiring the hiring of a minority (which incidentally includes more than blacks), is fine. That is NOT what affirmative action did. Affirmative action lessened the criteria for minorities (most often black) to qualify them for jobs and admittance to schools.

Can you honestly say that you would rather have a black doctor who passed only because of lowered criteria over a white doctor who worked his ass off?

quote:


Seriously, as long as you want to scream that you are different and then demand to be treated differently with things like affirmative action, YOU and others like you, regardless of race or ethnicity (and yes they are different, do you even know your ethnicity or what country your family originates from? Here's a hint you bigoted little snot, africa is a continent not a country, like Europe and North America).

When you get that chip off your shoulder and stop thinking whites took all your options, then you might grow up and see how you are just as racist as those you throw the term at.


::sigh:: Your post is full of stereotypes and assumptions about what minorities must think. I think you have a long way to go before we can even have this discussion.



My post is full of what the person I was responding to was spouting off.

I don't doubt that you don't like it, but the bottom line will always be that as long as you lead with the color of your skin, that is what people will see first.

I do not for one second say that racism doesn't exist. I'm not surprised you are unable to see what I said. Do you deny that there are black racists? Do you deny that hatred has no color?

It is one thing to sit and throw a childish temper tantrum claiming that racism is ruining your life. It is quite another for it to actually be happening in this day and time.

Have your little fit all you want, but if you need to use the slavery of your ancestors as an excuse for why you are failing now, it has nothing to do with racism, it has nothing to do with the "white man" holding you down. It has to do with not wanting personal responsibility for your own failures. And the same goes for the white kid using the alcoholism or poverty of HIS parents as a reason for his failure.

Just because someone doesn't agree with you and you being black, doesn't make them a racist. I don't look at skin color and will speak out against those who do. You, on the other hand, feel the need to lead with yours and talk about the injustice of it all. Exactly what injustice have you suffered? Denied an education because of your skin color? Denied loans? Entry to anywhere at all? You are 31 years old, so you don't even have a memory of your own of segregation, if you talk about it, you are using other people's anger of injustice that happened to them.

By the way, blacks aren't the only people who suffer discrimination.



lovmuffin -> RE: fucken Huff post is racist! (9/8/2011 2:00:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

there are so many levels of paying for the crime of killing someone, hate crime is another sub level

and yes, I think its appropriate until all understand that there is a reason for the levels and motives and extenuating circumstances
You might not like it, but if you ever get caught with a dead body in your "baggage" you might be glad of those levels and labels etc etc even if you are as guilty as sin.
There are very few people ready to admit to being a killer and want to be punished to the full extent of the law.
Would you rather get a charge of manslaughter, or drunk driving causing death, or murder 1?
at the end of the day, the family of the victim has got a death to deal with, dead is dead right? does it make it easier knowing that .... it was just a drunk driving accident or , a fight that ended in an accidental death, or being killed because they are gay or transgendered or black or asian or white???


I'm just not seeing manslaughter, drunk driving death, or death because of a bar room brawl (unless the bar room brawl was the result of a big bully pickin on some one and beating him to death) as equal to depraved indifference.



Hillwilliam -> RE: fucken Huff post is racist! (9/8/2011 2:03:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Gangs kill people in other gangs. They dont care what color they are.

Gangs do, however, tend to be racially segregated with a few notable exceptions. (The International Posse of Homestead where I taught was one of those)

To add to that. Gangland is generally a bunch of sensationalist crap that tries to scare the hell out of people.


I watch gangland too and I'm not seeing it as crap. Do you think they are making that shit up ? I certainly wouldn't mess with one of those guys either. Even with the way low probability I would have a confrontation with a gang member and even if I'm confident I could defend myself I would back down or run because you would have to be looking over your shoulder all the time while the whole freakin rest of those guys are after your ass.


I didn't say they make it up. I say they sensationalize it. Do you REALLY believe that 15 or 20 juvie gangbangers can hold a state capital hostage and "Paralyze" the city as claimed on a recent episode?
As for challenging them. when I was teaching in Homestead, I did challenge them a couple of times assuming you see grabbing someone by the throat and slamming them into a wall as challenging them.
Back down and they'll walk all over you like anyone else. Show you're physically and mentally worth respect and they'll respect you. They're not the supermen that show tries to portray them as. They're people just like the rest of us.



Lucylastic -> RE: fucken Huff post is racist! (9/8/2011 2:05:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MileHighM

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
FR

Motive and extenuating circumstances have been part of the law for how many centuries and NOW all murders should be the same? and should be treated identically?
Not going to happen, because life has shades of grey, not absolutes.
There is a reason for that too.
motive goes to how many levels of murder /manslaughter, accidental, reckless etc etc
you are never going to get rid of those , hate crimes are never going to go away either and neither should the penalties

Yes Lucy, but you more or less just have to prove motive. There is often no distinction of what that motive is in the law. Murder doesn't even require a clear motive. It could be the result of wreckless behaviour. While I agree there are many shades of grey, what violent crimes aren't committed out of hate, jealousy, or greed?

Some people do it because they hate rich people, or poor people, or cheaters, or better people, or worse people, democrat, republican, snitches, etc, etc. What is to say that one form of hate is worse than another. If the law does an inadiquate job of punishing murderers, than I say up the penalties across the board, let's not pick and choose lesser forms of hate and give them a nod of reluctant approval.

you are kind arguing my point for me, its another level.. if it cant be proved, it cant be proved... if it can be abused , it will be abused and we still have laws in place despite abuses for centuries.
question.....the victim isnt important in the reason for the murder? the relationship or the motive behind the death isnt important?
I beg to differ
The motive behind a death is just as important as the facts of who did it.... especially in the punishment phase.
Ask the defendent if it matters, ask the family of the defendent. Let alone the family of the deceased.



MileHighM -> RE: fucken Huff post is racist! (9/8/2011 2:12:45 PM)

quote:

you are kind arguing my point for me, its another level.. if it cant be proved, it cant be proved... if it can be abused , it will be abused and we still have laws in place despite abuses for centuries.
question.....the victim isnt important in the reason for the murder? the relationship or the motive behind the death isnt important?
I beg to differ
The motive behind a death is just as important as the facts of who did it.... especially in the punishment phase.
Ask the defendent if it matters, ask the family of the defendent. Let alone the family of the deceased.


I agree with the law in general. It is more argregious that you have a motive. The fact that you have some fucked up rationalization in your head means you should be more severely punished. However, the degree of that punishment should not be measured by in what way your rationalization is fucked up. If you kill someone without motive, more or less it is an unintential killing, unless you are psycho. Accidental deaths should never carry the level of punishment intentional killings should.

In this case, you don't even need a hate crime enhancement. This guy ran over an injured, struggling man... That is the definition of depraved indifference, henous, vicious, brutal, etc.



lovmuffin -> RE: fucken Huff post is racist! (9/8/2011 2:17:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Gangs kill people in other gangs. They dont care what color they are.

Gangs do, however, tend to be racially segregated with a few notable exceptions. (The International Posse of Homestead where I taught was one of those)

To add to that. Gangland is generally a bunch of sensationalist crap that tries to scare the hell out of people.


I watch gangland too and I'm not seeing it as crap. Do you think they are making that shit up ? I certainly wouldn't mess with one of those guys either. Even with the way low probability I would have a confrontation with a gang member and even if I'm confident I could defend myself I would back down or run because you would have to be looking over your shoulder all the time while the whole freakin rest of those guys are after your ass.


I didn't say they make it up. I say they sensationalize it. Do you REALLY believe that 15 or 20 juvie gangbangers can hold a state capital hostage and "Paralyze" the city as claimed on a recent episode?
As for challenging them. when I was teaching in Homestead, I did challenge them a couple of times assuming you see grabbing someone by the throat and slamming them into a wall as challenging them.
Back down and they'll walk all over you like anyone else. Show you're physically and mentally worth respect and they'll respect you. They're not the supermen that show tries to portray them as. They're people just like the rest of us.


Well maybe it depends on the gang you're dealing with. Grabbing one by the throat and slamming them into a wall could have easily gotten you shot at a later time or even shot on the spot by another member. Even if the incident were not to escalate further at that time one could find themselves looking over their shoulder. I don't like the idea of looking over my shoulder, it's a disadvantage.

Ok...... I get sensationalize but I still don't take these guys lightly either and don't want to mess with them. Maybe in your circumstance you had nowhere to go and that was your better choice, kudos to you for that.  Have you ever seen the series "Outlaw Bikers". I wouldn't mess with them either.


 



tazzygirl -> RE: fucken Huff post is racist! (9/8/2011 2:32:29 PM)

quote:

you are kind arguing my point for me, its another level.. if it cant be proved, it cant be proved... if it can be abused , it will be abused and we still have laws in place despite abuses for centuries.
question.....the victim isnt important in the reason for the murder? the relationship or the motive behind the death isnt important?
I beg to differ
The motive behind a death is just as important as the facts of who did it.... especially in the punishment phase.
Ask the defendent if it matters, ask the family of the defendent. Let alone the family of the deceased.


And there are times when it cant be proved... such as in the case of Jordan Miles, beaten by pittsburgh cops. The FBI investigated for a hate crime and found no basis... rightly so.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/s_735421.html

But, because the beating was so severe, and the cops were all white, the FBI investigated.... As I would hope they would.



Lucylastic -> RE: fucken Huff post is racist! (9/8/2011 2:44:13 PM)

not disagreeing with you,:)




tazzygirl -> RE: fucken Huff post is racist! (9/8/2011 2:44:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tolovetolaugh

In 2004, for instance, ABCNews published a report based on a 20/20 investigation indicating that Shepard’s killers, Aaron McKinney and Russell Henderson, were drug addicts who targeted Shepard for robbery and then murdered him while experiencing “methamphetamine rage.” Among the other facts brought to light by 20/20 are that the prosecutor and a detective working the Shepard investigation didn’t think his case was a “hate crime” and that McKinney and Henderson attacked another man in the same fashion a little while after brutalizing Shepard.



You keep posting from the same site.

The article your site refers too is an interview with those two boys .... and their words.... I suggest you read the actual article. Its long, I know you can do it.




LinnaeaBorealis -> RE: fucken Huff post is racist! (9/8/2011 11:05:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tolovetolaugh

Notice in the last one- the boys who did it were black, the boy who was killed was white but they managed to keep race FULLY out of it, other then pictures of the children.
I agree with this, it keeps the tragedy a tragedy instead of trying to stir it into something else.


Now your turn! Find me articles where several whites killed a black person and the race was kept out of the article?



I'm a little behind on this thread, but I wanted to point out that this apparently wasn't a racially motivated assault, but a bullying incident. At least that's what it appears that they reported it as. Of course, I wasn't there, so I'm just going by what was reported in this article.



thompsonx -> RE: fucken Huff post is racist! (9/9/2011 6:48:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tolovetolaugh

Here is another good one-
"
  • Hate crime bills create inequality by designating special groups of people who are more worthy of protection. The Constitution already guarantees justice and equal treatment for all. So then, a law that singles out and gives extra protection and special treatment to special groups of people for their religion, sexual orientation, age, race, disability, etc. is unjust. All people should be treated the same. The words, ‘Equal justice under law’ are engraved over the entrance to the Supreme Court and testify to what makes American laws just. It is not fair to apply a harsher sentence of punishment for hitting someone with a rock because of race than when hitting someone with a rock because of a dislike for her ugly face. Splitting someone’s head open with a rock deserves the same punishment regardless of the motive. Should tall people be given preference over short people? But why must one be short or tall to be given extra protection? Those whose heights are in between deserve as much protection as anyone else.



    • It has been pointed out to you numerous times in this discussion that some in this country do not get "equal justice under the law". While you admit that this was true in the past you claim with out any validation that things have changed and now everyone is treated to "equal protection under the law"



    Hillwilliam -> RE: fucken Huff post is racist! (9/9/2011 7:41:40 AM)


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


    Well maybe it depends on the gang you're dealing with. Grabbing one by the throat and slamming them into a wall could have easily gotten you shot at a later time or even shot on the spot by another member. Even if the incident were not to escalate further at that time one could find themselves looking over their shoulder. I don't like the idea of looking over my shoulder, it's a disadvantage.

    Ok...... I get sensationalize but I still don't take these guys lightly either and don't want to mess with them. Maybe in your circumstance you had nowhere to go and that was your better choice, kudos to you for that.  Have you ever seen the series "Outlaw Bikers". I wouldn't mess with them either.


     


    You don't take them lightly but those people respect 2 things. Strength and cojones.

    As for what happened later. that afternoon, 2 of the kids that were in the gang but also members of my wrestling team came up and said "coach, we got ya back"
    Next morning, the head guy caught up with me before school and said "Hey man, dont kill my lil bro ok. He's an idiot and I took care of it last night." We shook hands and parted.
    3 months later, some wannabes were tagging in my neighborhood and I asked the same guy about it and was informed "Coach, you down. Anybody tags you, I wanna know about it cause you're on a list not to mess with ok?"

    As for outlaw bikers. Several of the Ghost Riders around here are good friends. Nice guys when you get to know em and it's always good to have friends in low places.

    they're people like anyone else not some kinda superman monsters out of a comic book.



    Lucylastic -> RE: fucken Huff post is racist! (9/9/2011 8:33:23 AM)


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

    there are so many levels of paying for the crime of killing someone, hate crime is another sub level

    and yes, I think its appropriate until all understand that there is a reason for the levels and motives and extenuating circumstances
    You might not like it, but if you ever get caught with a dead body in your "baggage" you might be glad of those levels and labels etc etc even if you are as guilty as sin.
    There are very few people ready to admit to being a killer and want to be punished to the full extent of the law.
    Would you rather get a charge of manslaughter, or drunk driving causing death, or murder 1?
    at the end of the day, the family of the victim has got a death to deal with, dead is dead right? does it make it easier knowing that .... it was just a drunk driving accident or , a fight that ended in an accidental death, or being killed because they are gay or transgendered or black or asian or white???


    I'm just not seeing manslaughter, drunk driving death, or death because of a bar room brawl (unless the bar room brawl was the result of a big bully pickin on some one and beating him to death) as equal to depraved indifference.


    Maybe you just havent seen enough people die in those situations to care. or the mess that is left behind...to me..personally, drunk driving death, is more than indifference, but I know what depraved means..do I think a drunk driving death should get the same as manslaughter?, yes.. I know a chap get away with manslaughter,because the difference was he found the weapon at the scene... he went there to do harm, but he got away with going down for life and did five years. The dead person still died from having a bottle carving out his neck, still dead leaving three kids and a wife and was in the wrong place at the wrong time, but the perp got away with 5 instead of 25.





    LinnaeaBorealis -> RE: fucken Huff post is racist! (9/9/2011 11:20:42 AM)


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


    Well maybe it depends on the gang you're dealing with. Grabbing one by the throat and slamming them into a wall could have easily gotten you shot at a later time or even shot on the spot by another member. Even if the incident were not to escalate further at that time one could find themselves looking over their shoulder. I don't like the idea of looking over my shoulder, it's a disadvantage.

    Ok...... I get sensationalize but I still don't take these guys lightly either and don't want to mess with them. Maybe in your circumstance you had nowhere to go and that was your better choice, kudos to you for that.  Have you ever seen the series "Outlaw Bikers". I wouldn't mess with them either.


     


    You don't take them lightly but those people respect 2 things. Strength and cojones.

    As for what happened later. that afternoon, 2 of the kids that were in the gang but also members of my wrestling team came up and said "coach, we got ya back"
    Next morning, the head guy caught up with me before school and said "Hey man, dont kill my lil bro ok. He's an idiot and I took care of it last night." We shook hands and parted.
    3 months later, some wannabes were tagging in my neighborhood and I asked the same guy about it and was informed "Coach, you down. Anybody tags you, I wanna know about it cause you're on a list not to mess with ok?"

    As for outlaw bikers. Several of the Ghost Riders around here are good friends. Nice guys when you get to know em and it's always good to have friends in low places.

    they're people like anyone else not some kinda superman monsters out of a comic book.


    I used to hang with three Outlaw Biker clubs in Seattle, back in the bad old days. They were really great guys, just a little crazy around the edges sometimes. LOL I found that the best way to get in their good graces was to not allow them to intimidate me. They can be like a pack of dogs in that if they smell fear, they may attack. But yeah, they were just people who watched out for me & never ever fucked with me.

    A lot of getting along with people in this world has to do with one's own attitude toward the rest of them. I don't look down on any group of people & each person within a group gets to let me know who they are. One or two people don't reflect an entire group.



    DomYngBlk -> RE: fucken Huff post is racist! (9/9/2011 12:34:02 PM)

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: VioletGray


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

    And isn't playing the blame game just what you are doing? Yes, racism exists. It clearly exists in YOUR statements.

    That's the point. Hatred isn't restricted to one group no matter how much minorities try to claim it is.


    Really? When have you heard people of color make this claim?


    Are YOU the one I was referring to? No. Read the posts of the person I was referring to. His statements are full of racism and bigotry and hate. Deal with it.

    quote:

    A black guy mugs a white woman and some radical like Al Sharpton will just about try to justify the guy's actions, blaming slavery (that he has to go back more than 3 generations in his family too find), the 'white' government, etc.


    DUDE, have to taken a look at our president? He denies his WHITE heritage, instead looking to the black father who was barely part of his life. But yep, the government is all for the whites. The Civils Rights Act, hate crime enhancments, affirmative action were all to benefit the whites.


    Are you really trying to say that these things exist to give people of color an advantage? Oh about if the playing field were level then we wouldn't have needed these programs in the first place?

    A level playing field does not include lowering the necessary test scores for some people. I don't disagree that requiring the employment of minorities was necessary, however, requiring the hiring of them or educating of them when they don't meet the requirements isn't leveling the playing field, it is setting a person up for failure because they can't keep up.

    Two young men want to go to Harvard. One is black, one is white. The white guy scores very high on his SATs, while the black guy scores just average. Harvard rejects the white guy and admits the black guy because of affirmative action.

    The white guy goes to a "lesser" school, and makes honors throughout. The black guy struggles, but continues to pass because the professors allow for a passing grade to be lower for black students.

    Both graduate and apply to law school. Harvard requires LSATS over 175 for acceptance for whites, but the black guy only needs a score of 150 for acceptance? Sounding "level" to you? The black guy again gains admittance over the white guy having scored 155 on the LSATS compared to the white guy's score of 180.

    White guy again goes to a "lesser" school, but whizes through because it isn't that challenging to him. Black guy, he struggles. He is working very hard, but he just isn't smart enough. Not because he is black, but because he just isn't smart enough. Again, black guy is passing because he can do so with lower grades than his white classmates.

    Now black guy takes the bar exam. Again, he needs a lower score to pass than his white colleagues.

    So because of the lower score, black guy gains admission to the bar. Goes to court and I guess, with affirmative action, we should accept less persuasive arguments from him as well.

    Do you see how that isn't a level playing field? When all criteria are the same, requiring the hiring of a minority (which incidentally includes more than blacks), is fine. That is NOT what affirmative action did. Affirmative action lessened the criteria for minorities (most often black) to qualify them for jobs and admittance to schools.

    Can you honestly say that you would rather have a black doctor who passed only because of lowered criteria over a white doctor who worked his ass off?

    quote:


    Seriously, as long as you want to scream that you are different and then demand to be treated differently with things like affirmative action, YOU and others like you, regardless of race or ethnicity (and yes they are different, do you even know your ethnicity or what country your family originates from? Here's a hint you bigoted little snot, africa is a continent not a country, like Europe and North America).

    When you get that chip off your shoulder and stop thinking whites took all your options, then you might grow up and see how you are just as racist as those you throw the term at.


    ::sigh:: Your post is full of stereotypes and assumptions about what minorities must think. I think you have a long way to go before we can even have this discussion.



    My post is full of what the person I was responding to was spouting off.

    I don't doubt that you don't like it, but the bottom line will always be that as long as you lead with the color of your skin, that is what people will see first.

    I do not for one second say that racism doesn't exist. I'm not surprised you are unable to see what I said. Do you deny that there are black racists? Do you deny that hatred has no color?

    It is one thing to sit and throw a childish temper tantrum claiming that racism is ruining your life. It is quite another for it to actually be happening in this day and time.

    Have your little fit all you want, but if you need to use the slavery of your ancestors as an excuse for why you are failing now, it has nothing to do with racism, it has nothing to do with the "white man" holding you down. It has to do with not wanting personal responsibility for your own failures. And the same goes for the white kid using the alcoholism or poverty of HIS parents as a reason for his failure.

    Just because someone doesn't agree with you and you being black, doesn't make them a racist. I don't look at skin color and will speak out against those who do. You, on the other hand, feel the need to lead with yours and talk about the injustice of it all. Exactly what injustice have you suffered? Denied an education because of your skin color? Denied loans? Entry to anywhere at all? You are 31 years old, so you don't even have a memory of your own of segregation, if you talk about it, you are using other people's anger of injustice that happened to them.

    By the way, blacks aren't the only people who suffer discrimination.


    Tell ya what. Let me take you and your kin and put them in slavery for 400 years. Breed them, beat them, lynch them, sell them.....keep them from having access to any books, schools, music, religion, family..etc etc etc...and after that 400 years we will see how you make out in the world.



    Hillwilliam -> RE: fucken Huff post is racist! (9/9/2011 12:34:26 PM)

    It also helps if you make a donation to their toy runs. They REALLY make some kids days come december.



    lovmuffin -> RE: fucken Huff post is racist! (9/9/2011 12:47:15 PM)

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Lucylastic


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

    there are so many levels of paying for the crime of killing someone, hate crime is another sub level

    and yes, I think its appropriate until all understand that there is a reason for the levels and motives and extenuating circumstances
    You might not like it, but if you ever get caught with a dead body in your "baggage" you might be glad of those levels and labels etc etc even if you are as guilty as sin.
    There are very few people ready to admit to being a killer and want to be punished to the full extent of the law.
    Would you rather get a charge of manslaughter, or drunk driving causing death, or murder 1?
    at the end of the day, the family of the victim has got a death to deal with, dead is dead right? does it make it easier knowing that .... it was just a drunk driving accident or , a fight that ended in an accidental death, or being killed because they are gay or transgendered or black or asian or white???


    I'm just not seeing manslaughter, drunk driving death, or death because of a bar room brawl (unless the bar room brawl was the result of a big bully pickin on some one and beating him to death) as equal to depraved indifference.


    Maybe you just havent seen enough people die in those situations to care. or the mess that is left behind...to me..personally, drunk driving death, is more than indifference, but I know what depraved means..do I think a drunk driving death should get the same as manslaughter?, yes.. I know a chap get away with manslaughter,because the difference was he found the weapon at the scene... he went there to do harm, but he got away with going down for life and did five years. The dead person still died from having a bottle carving out his neck, still dead leaving three kids and a wife and was in the wrong place at the wrong time, but the perp got away with 5 instead of 25.





    So much of what kind of justice happens in wrongful death situations depends on so many things such as what state, what prosecutor, who's your lawyer, what evidence they have and so on. I'll tell you about drunk driving. There was a guy in Kentucky who was a DUI repeat offender. He was out driving drunk one day and caused an accident with a school bus. I forgot how many kids were killed but it was a bunch. There was talk coming from the prosecutors office about charging this guy with capital murder. They didn't but he got life at the time so I thought, or I think he did. I saw on the news within the last few years or so he got out. He served 17 years. I remembered the incident when I saw the news story and was surprised he got out so soon.




    lovmuffin -> RE: fucken Huff post is racist! (9/9/2011 1:14:10 PM)

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


    Well maybe it depends on the gang you're dealing with. Grabbing one by the throat and slamming them into a wall could have easily gotten you shot at a later time or even shot on the spot by another member. Even if the incident were not to escalate further at that time one could find themselves looking over their shoulder. I don't like the idea of looking over my shoulder, it's a disadvantage.

    Ok...... I get sensationalize but I still don't take these guys lightly either and don't want to mess with them. Maybe in your circumstance you had nowhere to go and that was your better choice, kudos to you for that.  Have you ever seen the series "Outlaw Bikers". I wouldn't mess with them either.





    You don't take them lightly but those people respect 2 things. Strength and cojones.

    As for what happened later. that afternoon, 2 of the kids that were in the gang but also members of my wrestling team came up and said "coach, we got ya back"
    Next morning, the head guy caught up with me before school and said "Hey man, dont kill my lil bro ok. He's an idiot and I took care of it last night." We shook hands and parted.
    3 months later, some wannabes were tagging in my neighborhood and I asked the same guy about it and was informed "Coach, you down. Anybody tags you, I wanna know about it cause you're on a list not to mess with ok?"

    As for outlaw bikers. Several of the Ghost Riders around here are good friends. Nice guys when you get to know em and it's always good to have friends in low places.

    they're people like anyone else not some kinda superman monsters out of a comic book.


    I'm sure being a coach with members on your team went a long way toward respect.  Ya got guys watching your back helps too. I have seen these guys around in places I have been. They're not hard to spot. I have done business with them (legitimate business, not all that often), I talk to them like I would any other client and pretend I'm clueless as for noticing they are gang members. As far as anything else to do with these guys I would steer clear of them. I just don't want to get involved in any way.  

    As far as bikers go, when I was growing up there was a local outlaw type biker gang / club that roamed my home town. They were dorks though and got there asses kicked at times.  Later in life there was an occasion where I met several members of a more notorious nationally well known club at a place I frequented.  I had a friend who used to hang out and ride with them. All I ever did was have a few short casual conversations. I didn't want any  involvement with them at all.  I find that show on TV "Outlaw Bikers" interesting though because there are some notorious bad ass clubs I have never heard of and there is shit that goes down I had never heard of either.  Maybe some of that is sensationalized too.





    Hillwilliam -> RE: fucken Huff post is racist! (9/9/2011 1:19:06 PM)

    Trust me on this one muffin. It's sensationalized.



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