RE: 5 Kicked Out and 3 Arrested at Paul Ryan Town Hall For Asking Questions

RE: 5 Kicked Out and 3 Arrested at Paul Ryan Town Hall For Asking Questions (Full Version)

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thompsonx -> RE: 5 Kicked Out and 3 Arrested at Paul Ryan Town Hall For Asking Questions (9/7/2011 2:10:06 PM)
quote: Not true. You may not yell "fire" in a crowded theater if ther is no fire but if there is a fire and you yell fire and there is panic your free speech is protected. You knew what I was saying. Now you are a mind reader

thompsonx -> RE: 5 Kicked Out and 3 Arrested at Paul Ryan Town Hall For Asking Questions (9/7/2011 2:13:19 PM)
quote: Which is a restriction you agree to when you join. So unless the tickets were sold with the disclaimer that this was a lecture and no questions would be allowed free speech is protected. Its like buying an Iphone, you have no choice but to agree with their liscensing agreement. YOu buy a house now a days, you have no choice but to agree to some community rules or another. You have a choice to buy the iphone or the house with the restrictive covenants.

thompsonx -> RE: 5 Kicked Out and 3 Arrested at Paul Ryan Town Hall For Asking Questions (9/7/2011 2:18:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx Yes you may throw someone out of your private home for being offensive but you may not have them arrested for what they said. Actually you can, it's called Assault. Kinda hard to prove though. For a cop you do not seem to know much about the law. If I mention that your wife is a poor house keeper and that your house looks like a shit pit. I have been offensive but hardly assaultive. If on the other hand I offer to put my foot up your ass so deep you will need surgury to remove it, that is assault. Assault is a verbal attack, Battery is a physical attack.

MileHighM -> RE: 5 Kicked Out and 3 Arrested at Paul Ryan Town Hall For Asking Questions (9/7/2011 2:35:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: you can fire an employee (if stated in the terms of employment) for something they say. How about a little validation for this one? publicly, they suspend and fine ball players all the time for making controversial remarks. They are also forbidden from badmouthing the referrees publicly, thats forbidding them from expressing their feelings. Since mlb and the nfl are legalized slavery and thus not like the rest of us. Do you have some validation from the real world? No, it is not legalized slavery, those players can quit and get a different career at any time. They do exsist as legalized monopolies, if that is what you meant. If they want to play that sport for pay, they have work within one of the sport monopolies, however, you can just not play the sport, Just like I don't have to buy cell phone as you put it. So, how is that not real world example. I used to work at the home depot when I was in school. If we bad mouthed the company to a customer, we could be fired. I see what you are doing though, you are applying a double standard to everything I say. One standard for you, your friends and your beliefs and then saying the rest of the world works under different rules. If it is a liberal barking at a conservative, it is a free speech issue according to you. If it is a conservative barking at a liberal, it is a matter of tresspassing according to you. I want the rules to apply fairly in both directions. I don't give a damn what the message is, it doesn't change the rules.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: 5 Kicked Out and 3 Arrested at Paul Ryan Town Hall For Asking Questions (9/7/2011 4:15:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: MileHighM Town hall is different from a political rally Evidently the site listed above no longer allows the page to load. Either from so many viewing the page or 'unscruplous' types waging an information war to keep the 'good' Representative in the best possible light. So, I found the information through other sources (google makes it easy). quote: Source: Politico.com Ryan’s appearance before the Whitnall Park Rotary Club in Greenfield, Wis., came after POLITICO revealed that he was one of at least four GOP members of Congress who appeared before only paying crowds while not holding any free town hall meetings open to the public during the August recess. So 'yes' MileHighM, this was an actual Town Hall Meeting, not a political rally. I thought Republicans (like Mr. Paul Ryan) were against taxes being levied against their own residents? Seems a $15 'tax' is issue for the 'privilage' of seeing their 'elected offical' but not allowed to behave like 'American citizens wishing to hold their goverment.....ACCOUNTIBLE'. No, it wasnt, and your snip from Politico doesnt say it was. But just in case your reading comprehension continues to fail you, this from the event sponsor might be clearer: "The event was NOT a town hall meeting format, and the $15 fee covered only the lunch and other costs incurred in enabling an open public invitation. Congressman Ryan spent 30 minutes speaking about his ideas and then provided another 30 minutes in an open Q&A format. Protesters unsuccessfully attempted to prevent his appearance by disrupting the event both inside and outside Klemmer's Banquet Center, where the club meets each Tuesday. Ironically, and unfortunately for the protesters inside, all had been removed by police before the Q&A format because they would not permit him to speak. Their bullying techniques appeared both inappropriate and unproductive to those who truly came to hear Mr. Ryan."

Sanity -> RE: 5 Kicked Out and 3 Arrested at Paul Ryan Town Hall For Asking Questions (9/7/2011 5:09:16 PM)
So these leftists, they hate free speech and the free and open exchange of ideas Like so many leftists do quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy No, it wasnt, and your snip from Politico doesnt say it was. But just in case your reading comprehension continues to fail you, this from the event sponsor might be clearer: "The event was NOT a town hall meeting format, and the $15 fee covered only the lunch and other costs incurred in enabling an open public invitation. Congressman Ryan spent 30 minutes speaking about his ideas and then provided another 30 minutes in an open Q&A format. Protesters unsuccessfully attempted to prevent his appearance by disrupting the event both inside and outside Klemmer's Banquet Center, where the club meets each Tuesday. Ironically, and unfortunately for the protesters inside, all had been removed by police before the Q&A format because they would not permit him to speak. Their bullying techniques appeared both inappropriate and unproductive to those who truly came to hear Mr. Ryan."

farglebargle -> RE: 5 Kicked Out and 3 Arrested at Paul Ryan Town Hall For Asking Questions (9/7/2011 5:18:21 PM)
Public Officials in the performance of their duties have no expectation of privacy. If he's not man enough to talk directly to his constituents, then he shouldn't have bothered running.

Sanity -> RE: 5 Kicked Out and 3 Arrested at Paul Ryan Town Hall For Asking Questions (9/7/2011 5:38:56 PM)
If the far left union goons who were bused in to disrupt the meeting would stfu them maybe he would talk with his constituents Why do leftists hate the free and open exchange of ideas The answer is obvious, its a rhetorical question. Leftists cant win elections if free speech is involved, even if the elections are just fair. Look at history... all the leftists killing fields. All their quashing free speech, free press, free association, and so on. Hence your beloved goons. quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle Public Officials in the performance of their duties have no expectation of privacy. If he's not man enough to talk directly to his constituents, then he shouldn't have bothered running.

farglebargle -> RE: 5 Kicked Out and 3 Arrested at Paul Ryan Town Hall For Asking Questions (9/7/2011 5:55:25 PM)
You need to substantiate that those ejected and/or arrested were not constituents. OR, you can get back to licking our balls and STFU, bitch.... quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity If the far left union goons who were bused in to disrupt the meeting would stfu them maybe he would talk with his constituents Why do leftists hate the free and open exchange of ideas The answer is obvious, its a rhetorical question. Leftists cant win elections if free speech is involved, even if the elections are just fair. Look at history... all the leftists killing fields. All their quashing free speech, free press, free association, and so on. Hence your beloved goons. quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle Public Officials in the performance of their duties have no expectation of privacy. If he's not man enough to talk directly to his constituents, then he shouldn't have bothered running.

Kirata -> RE: 5 Kicked Out and 3 Arrested at Paul Ryan Town Hall For Asking Questions (9/7/2011 6:01:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: joether this was an actual Town Hall Meeting No, it wasnt, and your snip from Politico doesnt say it was. But just in case your reading comprehension continues to fail you, this from the event sponsor might be clearer: "The event was NOT a town hall meeting format, and the $15 fee covered only the lunch and other costs incurred in enabling an open public invitation. Congressman Ryan spent 30 minutes speaking about his ideas and then provided another 30 minutes in an open Q&A format. Protesters unsuccessfully attempted to prevent his appearance by disrupting the event both inside and outside Klemmer's Banquet Center, where the club meets each Tuesday. Ironically, and unfortunately for the protesters inside, all had been removed by police before the Q&A format because they would not permit him to speak. Their bullying techniques appeared both inappropriate and unproductive to those who truly came to hear Mr. Ryan." You have to remember that for some people, ignoring reality is their kink. Here's more... Paul Ryan, Sean Duffy and Reid Ribble are … shutting down town hall meetings, or making their constituents pay to attend them. ~State Democratic Party of Wisconsin on Wednesday, August 17th, 2011 in an email to party supporters Politifact's conclusion: [image]http://static.politifact.com.s3.amazonaws.com/rulings%2Ftom-pantsonfire.gif[/image] The party’s claim is not only false, but ridiculously so. K.

EternalHoH -> RE: 5 Kicked Out and 3 Arrested at Paul Ryan Town Hall For Asking Questions (9/7/2011 6:07:30 PM)
I can see a fundraiser being diefferent than a town hall event. If you want to charge $500 a plate for a fundraiser dinner, that's fine. Technically, you are being overcharged for eating dinner. The primary goal of the event is to raise funds, and secondary goal is to mingle with constituents and hear their concerns. If you want to pay your $500 for the opportunity to get close to the politician and make your verbal point, that's fine under those circumstances, too. But I look at a town hall event a bit differently, where the primary goal is to interact with constituents to hear their concerns, and it has nothing to do with fundraising. Putting access to the politicians behind a fee for THAT type of event does not digest as well with me. Its not quite the same as tossing someone out of your house who is abusive. And that difference was the politician was elected by everyone to represent them, the pol was not elected to buy a house for himself. The politician has a job to do, and its has nothing to do with his rights on his private property. Putting the most basic form of access to your elected representatives behind a fee is a bit repulsive, and acts to screen additional forms of access to politicians based on finances. And again, a town hall has a fundaemental different purpose than a fund raiser. Constituents losing all forms of direct access to politicians without "paying to play" is not how this democracy should work. Just what other avenues are there where people have sufficient direct access to their elected representatives to ask direct questions? Emailing or calling the office just gets you a response from their office staff.

joether -> RE: 5 Kicked Out and 3 Arrested at Paul Ryan Town Hall For Asking Questions (9/7/2011 6:14:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy "The event was NOT a town hall meeting format, and the $15 fee covered only the lunch and other costs incurred in enabling an open public invitation. Congressman Ryan spent 30 minutes speaking about his ideas and then provided another 30 minutes in an open Q&A format. Protesters unsuccessfully attempted to prevent his appearance by disrupting the event both inside and outside Klemmer's Banquet Center, where the club meets each Tuesday. Ironically, and unfortunately for the protesters inside, all had been removed by police before the Q&A format because they would not permit him to speak. Their bullying techniques appeared both inappropriate and unproductive to those who truly came to hear Mr. Ryan." Check out the bold part first wilbe. Got that? Five words, that kill your arguement. If its open to the public, that means the folks of Mr. Paul Ryan's district should be able to get in with no fuss. Heck, charging $15 a person is pretty lame considering the Representative has to spend....how much....for reelection? That if it was a TRUE goverment function, they shouldn't have forced the good citizens to pay a 'tax' to enter. Second, if a person paid the 'tax' (call it a fee if it makes you sleep better in 'hypocrit-land'), and ARE a resident of Mr. Paul Ryan's district, do they have a right to ask him questions? Do they have the right to expect a decent answer to their questions? And if they are angry because they feel insulted that his attitude, words and actions have been an insult to the nation at large.....are they allowed to express their anger when asking said questions? Now wilbe, should our elected officals be held accountable and responsible for any and all their words and actions while in office? Should a citizen be able to ask an honest question, regardless of whether they are calm or very angry? There's a huge difference between someone that is angry BUT civil to show due respect for our goverment. Verse someone that is angry AND disrespectful to their fellow citizens and elected officals during a town hall meeting. If a Democrat did this, would you simply stand on the side lines and try to deny anything bad happen? Hell No! You would be on this forum, with several other conservatives bashing said Democrat up one street and down the other. So why aren't you doing it with the same political philosophy that you side with time and time again on these here forums? Finally, why were people arrested? For disrupting a town hall meeting? News flash wilbe, vocal protesting has been a part of polutical town hall meetings since BEFORE the Revolution (the original one). Back before 1776, if a british colonist said bad things about 'royal sh*thead so-and-so' they were often arrested and flogged (aka the penalty for breaking the law back then). Now, we have 'Americianized Nobles' in our country who feel they can do largely the same thing (and beat the protestor in many other ways than physical).

servantforuse -> RE: 5 Kicked Out and 3 Arrested at Paul Ryan Town Hall For Asking Questions (9/7/2011 6:19:42 PM)
IT WAS NOT A TOWN HALL MEETING..

willbeurdaddy -> RE: 5 Kicked Out and 3 Arrested at Paul Ryan Town Hall For Asking Questions (9/7/2011 6:22:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy "The event was NOT a town hall meeting format, and the $15 fee covered only the lunch and other costs incurred in enabling an open public invitation. Congressman Ryan spent 30 minutes speaking about his ideas and then provided another 30 minutes in an open Q&A format. Protesters unsuccessfully attempted to prevent his appearance by disrupting the event both inside and outside Klemmer's Banquet Center, where the club meets each Tuesday. Ironically, and unfortunately for the protesters inside, all had been removed by police before the Q&A format because they would not permit him to speak. Their bullying techniques appeared both inappropriate and unproductive to those who truly came to hear Mr. Ryan." Check out the bold part first wilbe. Got that? Five words, that kill your arguement. No, they don't kill my argument, which was solely based on the bold and italicized. The claim was it was a town hall. It wasnt. Period. If you want to play semantics with differences between "town hall" and "open public invitation" knock yourself out. But all the "open public invitation" means is that it wasn't restricted to Rotary members and doesnt have fuck all to do with it being an open forum as is a town hall.

Lucylastic -> RE: 5 Kicked Out and 3 Arrested at Paul Ryan Town Hall For Asking Questions (9/7/2011 6:29:47 PM)
yeah some very unclever wordsmithing there, so solid so down to earth an d no nonsense pfffffft ...most can see right through it

farglebargle -> RE: 5 Kicked Out and 3 Arrested at Paul Ryan Town Hall For Asking Questions (9/7/2011 6:38:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: servantforuse IT WAS NOT A TOWN HALL MEETING.. Who cares? Public servants performing their duties have no expectation of privacy in public. Period. Just like filming a cop. They might not LIKE you to do it, but they can shove what they like up their asses...

joether -> RE: 5 Kicked Out and 3 Arrested at Paul Ryan Town Hall For Asking Questions (9/7/2011 6:38:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: joether this was an actual Town Hall Meeting No, it wasnt, and your snip from Politico doesnt say it was. But just in case your reading comprehension continues to fail you, this from the event sponsor might be clearer: "The event was NOT a town hall meeting format, and the $15 fee covered only the lunch and other costs incurred in enabling an open public invitation. Congressman Ryan spent 30 minutes speaking about his ideas and then provided another 30 minutes in an open Q&A format. Protesters unsuccessfully attempted to prevent his appearance by disrupting the event both inside and outside Klemmer's Banquet Center, where the club meets each Tuesday. Ironically, and unfortunately for the protesters inside, all had been removed by police before the Q&A format because they would not permit him to speak. Their bullying techniques appeared both inappropriate and unproductive to those who truly came to hear Mr. Ryan." You have to remember that for some people, ignoring reality is their kink. Here's more... Paul Ryan, Sean Duffy and Reid Ribble are … shutting down town hall meetings, or making their constituents pay to attend them. ~State Democratic Party of Wisconsin on Wednesday, August 17th, 2011 in an email to party supporters Politifact's conclusion: [image]http://static.politifact.com.s3.amazonaws.com/rulings%2Ftom-pantsonfire.gif[/image] The party’s claim is not only false, but ridiculously so. If that's the actual truth of the matter, and its extremely limited to just three instances (if I read that article right), fine. If this doesn't set a future standard for ANYONE in political office, fine again. If it does become the norm for Republicans, what will you do? I'm not distrustful of the information Kirata, I'm distrustful of the folks that typically give me sources that are of a questionable nature.

thompsonx -> RE: 5 Kicked Out and 3 Arrested at Paul Ryan Town Hall For Asking Questions (9/7/2011 7:04:32 PM)
quote: No, it is not legalized slavery, those players can quit and get a different career at any time. So your point is if you want to play ball you are a slave. If you choose to give up your carrear that you have spent your life developing then you can be free. They do exsist as legalized monopolies, if that is what you meant. What I ment was that in addition to slavery it is also a legalized monopoly. If they want to play that sport for pay, they have work within one of the sport monopolies, however, you can just not play the sport, Just like I don't have to buy cell phone as you put it. So, how is that not real world example. Because they are not the same thing. You have choices in cell phones that are not i phones. You have choices in housing that does not have covenents. I used to work at the home depot when I was in school. If we bad mouthed the company to a customer, we could be fired. The nlrb says that is illegal and any employee terminated under those circumstances would have a two fisted grip on home depot's balls. I see what you are doing though, you are applying a double standard to everything I say. Please show where I have called for a double standard. One standard for you, your friends and your beliefs and then saying the rest of the world works under different rules. If it is a liberal barking at a conservative, it is a free speech issue according to you. If it is a conservative barking at a liberal, it is a matter of tresspassing according to you. Please show me where I have said that. I want the rules to apply fairly in both directions. I don't give a damn what the message is, it doesn't change the rules. I could not agreee more.

MrRodgers -> RE: 5 Kicked Out and 3 Arrested at Paul Ryan Town Hall For Asking Questions (9/7/2011 7:58:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: extraordinarydom It's been evident all along that the right wing of what remains of what used to be the Republican Party has no interest in democracy or the (small 'l') liberal ideals on which this nation was founded. This is simply another example of Ryan and his co-horts trying to subvert the democratic process. Can you imagine the yowling on the right if a Democrat tried pulling Ryan's stunt of charging for a town hall and then only answering friendly questions - while having people who are trying to address their government representative are either tossed out on their ear or even arrested? Someone above put it best: It is not often a people gets to witness the decline and fall of a once-great and civilized nation. Except Bush did it regularly. I understand sometimes even answering pre-screened questions.

MrRodgers -> RE: 5 Kicked Out and 3 Arrested at Paul Ryan Town Hall For Asking Questions (9/7/2011 8:01:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MileHighM This is so f**g retarded. Libtards and wingnuts bitching about protestors getting thrown out of a rally?!?!?!?!? It doesn't matter if they paid to get in. There is no first amendment protection in a rally, it is a private event. People get thrown out of rallies all the time on the right and left. If you just let people be rude and disruptive then what's the point of having a rally. I think it is dispicable people people show up and just start yelling. Why not ask a good kicker of question or get in a honest debate with someone? I'll tell you why, the average f*tard on the right or left who actually has the time to go out and protetest is nothing more than a bumper sticker sloganeer, incapable of rational thought. This thread should be burned. These 'protestors' don't know how the game is played. You are go to K St in DC and bring your million$, then you get to ask all of the questions you want and might...might then get some answers.

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