MileHighM
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quote:
ORIGINAL: samboct
Tweak
If Israel retreats to some borders which makes you happy- but is militarily impossible to defend- that is de facto absenting the Jews- the stated goal of most of the Arab countries because Israel will get overrun. Again- look at a map- Israel is not a big place.
Also- last time I checked, the war of 1967 involved a preemptive strike by the Israelis to thwart an Arab invasion. Seems to me that if you're going to try and invade your neighbor- there may be a price to be paid. Your argument that Jews should retreat to pre 1967 borders would carry a lot more weight if the Jews had simply invaded to snatch the land- as it is, it's rather disingenuous.
In terms of the Palestinians being displaced- that's what wars do- they allow one population to move in on another's turf. It's natures way- happens with all species. Why are the Palestinians so much more important than all the other displaced people on the globe? How about the wars in Africa? What about Tibet? The Palestinian's have gotten more financial support than anybody else- but of course, their favorite leader Arafat put a very large chunk of that in his own bank account. Seems to me that these guys are pawns of the rest of the Arab world. There's plenty of room to resettle them if desired- but that wouldn't leave the festering wound of people living in camps. Mind you the rest of the Arab world isn't crazy about taking these guys in either.
In terms of your comments that Israeli occupation breeds terrorism...sorry- doesn't fit the data. If you would be correct, then the terrorists would be recruited from the ranks of the Palestinians, since they're the ones who are so brutally oppressed by the Israelis (and I'll fully admit, occupying armies suck, and the Israelis are no saints.) But last time I checked, the terrorists who flew the planes into the buildings were recruited from Egyptians and Saudis- not Palestinians. I don't see that Palestinians play some commanding role in the ranks of Islamic terrorists globally.
People can act in a very selfless manner when they see a direct impact- and blowing yourself up for a cause is in a certain sense, a selfless act. Germans in the Holocaust could say that it was terrible what was happening to the Jews, but the Jews that were saved by Germans- well, they were the ones where somebody said- he's my butcher, my violin teacher, our cook, etc. The rest- well, that was a damn shame. we can cry for people we don't know, but to sacrifice ourself or take a great risk? That involves knowing someone well. Likewise the kamikazes were first recruited from the fliers who faced the US fleet and knew how long the odds were. They went willingly. The kids who had no combat experience- well, they needed a lot more cajoling, but the thought of the B-29s bombing their cities did plenty. Nevertheless, many of them were screaming Mama on the way down- a very human and painful cry.
These are examples where people lay down their lives for others or an idea. While Palestinians might commit terrorist actions because Jews had killed their families, Arabs in other countries are acting out of a different motivation because the Israeli occupation doesn't directly affect them. Therefore, removing it, won't change the underlying reasons why they're willing to become martyrs to a cause.
If you don't understand that- well, no wonder you think a policy of appeasement might work. I don't.
Sam
Gotta understand some things about Tweaker if you are going even discuss anything with her
1. Her mind is made up
2. Even for the purpose of defense, violence is never the answer to her (she can't be reasoned with here)
3. She will often read your stuff out of context focusing on one or two sentences without comprehending the bulk of your writings.
4. She is a micro thinker. She compartmentalizes her understanding of the entire world into a bunch of bubbles and only considers each bubble individually. She never looks at the big picture and sees the effect one bubble has on another and the causality of that interaction.
The truth in arguing about the Middle East is that it is a area based on a completely different set of values than that of western values. I would think the average philosophical leftist like Tweaker would fully understand cultural relativistic logic. But, she continues to impose a strict set of western passivist values on the situation as a solution to the struggles that go on there. Truth is that that area of the world only views passivism as a vice not a virtue. Passivism is exploited and will often result in personal harm and injury. Let's face it, even with all the brutality she claims is in the Western forms of justice system, we generally agree that corporal punishment is an abhoration. Yet in the mid east, many of those countries have no problem chopping off hands and making your family pay for your food and water while in prison.
Sure the Arab Muslim populace cries crocadile tears for the cameras, and that's what she sees. But they all know too well how stupid and the scared western media is to do any real digging, and how easy they are to manipulate. They know that as long as they play the victim they will be looked at as one. As long as they act like the underdog they will be cheered on to victory by the very people they want to destroy.
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RE: 9/11: 10 years on ..... - 
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