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Why do republicans want to undertax America? - 9/10/2011 7:45:56 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		G-d did not hand down a "Book of Taxes", so whether you're over or undertaxed is relative to other nations.

Depending on exactly what criteria you choose ( GDP, population, etc.. ) , America is somewhere in the middle quintile ( http://www.suntimes.com/news/nation/4834112-418/americans-tax-pain-not-too-bad.html )

Republicans would like to undertax America, because they believe that would make things better (for the set of people for whom they'd like to make things better).

Discuss.

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 9/10/2011 7:55:47 AM >

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RE: Why do republicans want to undertax America? - 9/10/2011 4:18:46 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Not biting. The fact is people in other countries actually get something for their money. That blows the whole comparison. What's more even though the income/wealth distribution is not all that different there are other differences. Like the lower classes being better educated to start with as well as having better access to higher education in other countries.

Look at our rank in literacy, academic competency, infant mortaliy among a few other things for details.

So it's not worth my time to read.

T^T

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RE: Why do republicans want to undertax America? - 9/10/2011 4:32:38 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
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Status: offline 		They dont,they want the government to stop overspending. Taxes are more than sufficient to fund what the government is supposed to be doing AND pay back for prior overspending. All they have to do is commit to not overspending in the future.[/thread]

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RE: Why do republicans want to undertax America? - 9/10/2011 4:38:24 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		"All they have to do is commit to not overspending in the future"

You don't say. Think we could convince them to do that within the next millenium or so ? There's enough money there for socialized medicine and all that shit, even good roads (gasp) , but apparently there are more important things to do.

T^T

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RE: Why do republicans want to undertax America? - 9/10/2011 7:54:46 PM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		If anyone out there in collarme land thinks that they are under taxed, get out your check book and send Obama some cash.

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RE: Why do republicans want to undertax America? - 9/10/2011 10:09:14 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		fargle, it's simple.  Money is held by some entity.  Those supporting lower taxes want that entity to be the private sector.  Those supporting more taxes want that entity to be the public sector. Taxes do nothing more than transfer money from the private sector to the public sector.


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RE: Why do republicans want to undertax America? - 9/10/2011 10:10:22 PM   
joether


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
Not biting. The fact is people in other countries actually get something for their money. That blows the whole comparison. What's more even though the income/wealth distribution is not all that different there are other differences. Like the lower classes being better educated to start with as well as having better access to higher education in other countries.

Look at our rank in literacy, academic competency, infant mortaliy among a few other things for details.

So it's not worth my time to read.


Actually Americans get quite a bit from the goverment. Got ask anyone that wears a US Military Uniform if they are better off now than when they joined the military. Then ask all the companies big and small that do business with the US Goverment on a daily (if not hourly) basis, if they are happy to have those contracts. After that, talk to everyday Americans that get help to attend college, deal with the harsh realities of unemployment, those getting help for serious illnesses/diseases (and the ones that care and love them), and those that recieve help in a staggering number of ways (directly or indirectly). Also, ask all those Americans that would have been injured or killed if not for the efforts of law enforcement and our intelligence agencies (i.e. the FBI).

That's a few hundred million Americans that are either directly or indirectly affected by what the US Goverment pays for in a single year, Termyn8or. Now if we are not getting the most 'bang for the buck' then by all means, contact your senator and/or representative to suggest better ways of achieving good goverment.

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RE: Why do republicans want to undertax America? - 9/10/2011 10:28:09 PM   
joether


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
fargle, it's simple.  Money is held by some entity.  Those supporting lower taxes want that entity to be the private sector.  Those supporting more taxes want that entity to be the public sector. Taxes do nothing more than transfer money from the private sector to the public sector.


However, the country is running a steep deficit. By raising those taxes, the deficit is reduced. Hopefully reduced enough to create a surplus. And with hope after that, apply said surplus directly towards the principle on the debt, so that future interest will not have to be paid (thus saving us a few trillion over the life of the debt). Its all a matter of mathematics.

Now, we can bitch and moan about raising those taxes for a while. And when we finally decided to 'deal with the problem', we'll end up paying even MORE in taxes to combat the problem. So, we can either deal with the issue now, raise the taxes and not feel so much long term pain....OR.....we can be masochistic with our collective head up our asses for a while and end up paying MORE....LATER! Your a reasonable person, Steven. Which of those two sounds like the lesser of two evils?

I didn't vote for Mr. Bush, or agreed to invade Iraq. Two events that largely helped create the economic problem(s) we are in. But yet, I'll have to pay for the debt that was run up. I think I'm well within my right as an American to demand conservatives hold themselves, and their elected officals to the same level of accountibility and responsibility as they slam liberals & Democrats on a daily basis. And they silly to think they are truely 'fiscal conservative'.

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RE: Why do republicans want to undertax America? - 9/10/2011 11:30:21 PM   
DomImus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
Republicans would like to undertax America, because they believe that would make things better (for the set of people for whom they'd like to make things better).


Democrats would like to overspend America - and have done just that - because they believe it would make things better (for the set of people for whom they'd like to make things better). Mostly to buy those people's votes, though.

What's the difference?




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RE: Why do republicans want to undertax America? - 9/11/2011 5:24:08 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		Well, the difference is that Republicans also spent the money already when they passed the spending bills which got us into this mess.

How do you expect the treasury to pay off the debt by cutting revenues?

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

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RE: Why do republicans want to undertax America? - 9/11/2011 5:48:41 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
fargle, it's simple.  Money is held by some entity.  Those supporting lower taxes want that entity to be the private sector.  Those supporting more taxes want that entity to be the public sector. Taxes do nothing more than transfer money from the private sector to the public sector.


However, the country is running a steep deficit. By raising those taxes, the deficit is reduced. Hopefully reduced enough to create a surplus. And with hope after that, apply said surplus directly towards the principle on the debt, so that future interest will not have to be paid (thus saving us a few trillion over the life of the debt). Its all a matter of mathematics.

Now, we can bitch and moan about raising those taxes for a while. And when we finally decided to 'deal with the problem', we'll end up paying even MORE in taxes to combat the problem. So, we can either deal with the issue now, raise the taxes and not feel so much long term pain....OR.....we can be masochistic with our collective head up our asses for a while and end up paying MORE....LATER! Your a reasonable person, Steven. Which of those two sounds like the lesser of two evils?

I didn't vote for Mr. Bush, or agreed to invade Iraq. Two events that largely helped create the economic problem(s) we are in. But yet, I'll have to pay for the debt that was run up. I think I'm well within my right as an American to demand conservatives hold themselves, and their elected officals to the same level of accountibility and responsibility as they slam liberals & Democrats on a daily basis. And they silly to think they are truely 'fiscal conservative'.


Joe, I agree with you except for one thing.  While we need to pay off the damage incurred by previous overspending, I want to make sure that spending is held in check in the future.  The GOP's attitude of "Deficits don't matter" has actually been quietly adopted by the Dems, who don't want to be the party to break the bad news that spending cannot continue indefinitely.

The GOP has had a very weird schizo nature.  They gave lip service to the fiscal conservative heritage they used to have, by correctly stating that there was a price to pay on spending they were opposed to.  Then  they blocked tax cuts by claiming that the Laffer curve proved that the economy, once properly stimulated by tax cuts, would respond with such vigor that the resultant revenue would overcompensate for the cuts. 

Congress is being dragged kicking and screaming into a world in which spending needs to be justified, and it's traumatic for them (and us) to get to fiscal reality, where every single US household has always been living.


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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RE: Why do republicans want to undertax America? - 9/11/2011 6:17:52 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

They dont,they want the government to stop overspending. Taxes are more than sufficient to fund what the government is supposed to be doing AND pay back for prior overspending. All they have to do is commit to not overspending in the future.[/thread]


Back it up with numbers Willbeur.

But you never do, you just spit things out with no documentation.

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RE: Why do republicans want to undertax America? - 9/11/2011 6:26:03 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

If anyone out there in collarme land thinks that they are under taxed, get out your check book and send Obama some cash.


Let's eliminate all taxes and then we can create a fund to build roads, maintain airports, maintain national parks etc..

Oh wait, isn't that what taxes do?

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RE: Why do republicans want to undertax America? - 9/11/2011 6:27:07 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife


quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

If anyone out there in collarme land thinks that they are under taxed, get out your check book and send Obama some cash.


Let's eliminate all taxes and then we can create a fund to build roads, maintain airports, maintain national parks etc..

Oh wait, isn't that what taxes do?



Don't forget keeping the streetlights lit. That's a personal favorite of mine...


_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Why do republicans want to undertax America? - 9/11/2011 7:37:21 AM   
xBullx


Posts: 4206
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline 		Spending in a word isn't the problem...

It's the massive waste within the spending that is the problem. These "criminals" we elect to office do little more than redirect funds to those that support their agendas, and the political party of choice is of no matter.

Many of you people echo various trumped up talking points and never address the real problems. Almost any member of our elected government seems to have more in common with Al Capone than with Eliot Ness. Watching them and their accumulation of our wealth and their desire to create more and more job justifying regulation that seldom has the effect they say they intend for it to have; they are little more than extortionist and racketeers. They practice the same tactics that a mobster would in urban neighborhoods, but since they're the government they get to make the rules and apparently that makes their actions legal.

All the while you guys argue to support your own chosen side of this puppet show, they are working to robbed you of all your wealth and liberty. Washington is one big charade, a shell game if you will and it's the common man that is to naive or trusting that is missing the point and being taken for a ride to serfdom.

Do you think for one minute that China isn't one of the largest political contributors to both parties; or that all big business isn't the real folks in charge of both parties. Most regulation that is concocted generally serves the financial interests of some major corporation more than it does the general welfare.

It is quite possible that our government redirects more funds out of intended expenses than it actually spends on any given taxes original intent. Over and over again things like highway monies are redirected to things like education because the oversight on education is so poorly managed and money is wasted. Concurrently, it is publically done so this way because who would rob the children of their right to education. Well your government would that's who. Do you think for one minute that a man like John Kerry or any rich ass republican federal official really gives a shit about some kid in the hills of West Va or some other kid in Muleshoe, Texas?

Come on Folks, this is why the constitution was designed to keep the Federal Government small, State and Local Governments know best who and what needs the money, the help and the efforts, and mind you they too have their short comings, but they are closer to the people and therefore are on a shorter leash.

The fact is the Fed has way to little oversight by those that are their employers, us; and they know it. My friends the inmates are running the asylum.

The United States and it's actions, holdings and it's reputation is the responsibility of us all no matter what side of the political spectrum you stand on. Blaming the boogieman all the time does not wash your hands of any sin. This is OUR country.

A smaller Federal government is what is required. As an example the leaders of our government are always talking about force modernization of our military, how a smaller and more effective, better equipped and managed military that is better suited to meet the challenges of the modern battlefield is critical to success. I agree, I also think that is a stand up idea for the Federal Government as a whole, the post office, the IRS, hell pick your bureaucracy and start stream lining. We could probably balance the budget right there with no tax adjustments at all.

Just remember what Ben said,

"A Republic if you can keep it."


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Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

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RE: Why do republicans want to undertax America? - 9/11/2011 1:43:32 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

They dont,they want the government to stop overspending. Taxes are more than sufficient to fund what the government is supposed to be doing AND pay back for prior overspending. All they have to do is commit to not overspending in the future.[/thread]


Back it up with numbers Willbeur.

But you never do, you just spit things out with no documentation.



You wouldnt read it anyway, and heres proof: everything Ive said is in the Ryan budget and the CBO scoring which Ive referenced in many threads. Youve never read it.

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 9/11/2011 1:44:00 PM >

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RE: Why do republicans want to undertax America? - 9/11/2011 4:03:24 PM   
Fellow


Posts: 1486
Joined: 9/21/2009
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quote:

Why do republicans want to undertax America?


Some call Obama a  Republican. "Fargebargle" seems to agree. Who extended Bush tax cuts, and who offered significant tax cuts with his Jobs Program a few days ago?

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RE: Why do republicans want to undertax America? - 9/11/2011 4:09:39 PM   
JadedInnocence


Posts: 10
Joined: 9/7/2011
From: Spiritual Realm: Chaos
Status: offline 		I say bring on a flat tax, so corporations can't weasel their way out of it with tax attorneys...  Might even have enough from that to do everything the government wants to do.</Libertarian comment>

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RE: Why do republicans want to undertax America? - 9/11/2011 5:37:31 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

G-d did not hand down a "Book of Taxes", so whether you're over or undertaxed is relative to other nations.

Depending on exactly what criteria you choose ( GDP, population, etc.. ) , America is somewhere in the middle quintile ( http://www.suntimes.com/news/nation/4834112-418/americans-tax-pain-not-too-bad.html )

Republicans would like to undertax America, because they believe that would make things better (for the set of people for whom they'd like to make things better).

Discuss.


Fargle, didn't God say we should tithe 10%?
How about 10% to the govt. and at the end of the year if there's anything left over return it to the taxpayers to whom it rightly belongs?
If you give *any* government agency more and more money each year it's simply going to get bigger and bigger.
Look at the U.S. State Dept, they have offices or embasseys in almost *every country* in the world!
We certainly don't need that! They could easily be cut by 50% and use a lot less of our taxdollars.
As for whatever other countries charge in taxes that's up to them and not us.

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RE: Why do republicans want to undertax America? - 9/11/2011 5:43:52 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		"Why do republicans want to undertax America"

So when old folks like Pops goes to the VA nursing home,they won`t be there.

Keep a couple sleeping bags handy,pops.One to sleep in while you wash your pee out of the other.

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