quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Nope we sold 8 strains of anthrax to Iraq in 1985 which was whie Bush I was vp.
http://www.gulfweb.org/bigdoc/report/riegle1.html

quote:

ORIGINAL: BOUNTYHUNTER

Domi,I total agree that the guys that put their life on the line to save other gis..One of our medics was nominated for the MOH..I still don't know if he received it yet..just another fuckup by france,Germny and us..We should have had enought boots in country to secure all that nasty shit..I have used stingers and know just how effective they can be...40k stingers equal 40k terr attacts...B

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Your links are useless to prove your assertion, ken. "Some guy from Podunk"?

And I didnt write that there were no problems securing the weapons caches, I wrote that we made an effort to secure them to the best of our ability

None of your links disputes this fact.

Heres a New York Times article from 2003 about our efforts:

quote:



...A Pentagon spokesman, Bryan G. Whitman, said tonight, ''All known Iraqi munitions sites are being secured by coalition forces.'' But Mr. Whitman said he could not address questions of security at each munition site, saying that would be a matter for the local ground commander.


Senior civilian American officials in Iraq, who have privately raised concerns about security at some munitions sites, say even a small number of poorly guarded sites would pose a risk to American forces and the reconstruction effort. ''It's a problem,'' said a senior American official who has been actively involved in Iraqi security matters.

Another problem for the American-led forces is the looting that followed the fall of the government of Saddam Hussein. A senior defense official said today that the rapid collapse of the Iraqi Army during the war had left extensive ammunition dumps unguarded for many days, and that in many cases virtually everything had been looted by fleeing conscripts and officers.

The defense official said United States forces had worked hard to secure the dumps since then. But their presence, and delays in destroying some of the ammunition caches, were cited as a source of concern today by Maj. Gen. Raymond Odierno, the commander of the Army's Fourth Infantry Division, in a briefing for Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, who is visiting Iraq.


Full article here

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Did you notice that he's perfectly happy to pull up evidence of WMDs in Iraq, when it suits his purpose of the moment?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


All right, what is the "Reigel Report" and why do you resort to such bullshit sources for your "proof"

Dont bother answering, its rhetorical

There was some legitimate medical research cooperation but the "canisters of anthrax" ed wrote about is blatant lie

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Nope we sold 8 strains of anthrax to Iraq in 1985 which was whie Bush I was vp.
http://www.gulfweb.org/bigdoc/report/riegle1.html

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Your links are useless to prove your assertion, ken. "Some guy from Podunk"?

And I didnt write that there were no problems securing the weapons caches, I wrote that we made an effort to secure them to the best of our ability

None of your links disputes this fact.

Heres a New York Times article from 2003 about our efforts:

quote:



...A Pentagon spokesman, Bryan G. Whitman, said tonight, ''All known Iraqi munitions sites are being secured by coalition forces.'' But Mr. Whitman said he could not address questions of security at each munition site, saying that would be a matter for the local ground commander.


Senior civilian American officials in Iraq, who have privately raised concerns about security at some munitions sites, say even a small number of poorly guarded sites would pose a risk to American forces and the reconstruction effort. ''It's a problem,'' said a senior American official who has been actively involved in Iraqi security matters.

Another problem for the American-led forces is the looting that followed the fall of the government of Saddam Hussein. A senior defense official said today that the rapid collapse of the Iraqi Army during the war had left extensive ammunition dumps unguarded for many days, and that in many cases virtually everything had been looted by fleeing conscripts and officers.

The defense official said United States forces had worked hard to secure the dumps since then. But their presence, and delays in destroying some of the ammunition caches, were cited as a source of concern today by Maj. Gen. Raymond Odierno, the commander of the Army's Fourth Infantry Division, in a briefing for Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, who is visiting Iraq.


Full article here

That article was from september 2003. The invasion was march to may 2003. So that report was months after the invasion and it admits that looting occured after the Iraqi government collapsed when we invaded.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

It doesn't complement your shrieks of "Bush lied!" every time Congressional approval of the war comes up, Ken.  It suggests there were matters of doubt and dispute, rather than simply an evil plot, which is what you typically go for.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Okay, again ken -

Assuming you are right

And I am in no way giving you that....

But that was then, this is now.

Assuming you are right, why didnt Obama learn from Iraq. Why are all of these technologically superior surface-to-air missiles being disseminated across (probably) the entire Middle East right now?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Your links are useless to prove your assertion, ken. "Some guy from Podunk"?

And I didnt write that there were no problems securing the weapons caches, I wrote that we made an effort to secure them to the best of our ability

None of your links disputes this fact.

Heres a New York Times article from 2003 about our efforts:

quote:



...A Pentagon spokesman, Bryan G. Whitman, said tonight, ''All known Iraqi munitions sites are being secured by coalition forces.'' But Mr. Whitman said he could not address questions of security at each munition site, saying that would be a matter for the local ground commander.


Senior civilian American officials in Iraq, who have privately raised concerns about security at some munitions sites, say even a small number of poorly guarded sites would pose a risk to American forces and the reconstruction effort. ''It's a problem,'' said a senior American official who has been actively involved in Iraqi security matters.

Another problem for the American-led forces is the looting that followed the fall of the government of Saddam Hussein. A senior defense official said today that the rapid collapse of the Iraqi Army during the war had left extensive ammunition dumps unguarded for many days, and that in many cases virtually everything had been looted by fleeing conscripts and officers.

The defense official said United States forces had worked hard to secure the dumps since then. But their presence, and delays in destroying some of the ammunition caches, were cited as a source of concern today by Maj. Gen. Raymond Odierno, the commander of the Army's Fourth Infantry Division, in a briefing for Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, who is visiting Iraq.


Full article here

That article was from september 2003. The invasion was march to may 2003. So that report was months after the invasion and it admits that looting occured after the Iraqi government collapsed when we invaded.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

We didn't invade and occupy Libya. Why do you keep pretending like a few airstrikes is equivalent to a long planned invasion and occupation?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

It doesn't complement your shrieks of "Bush lied!" every time Congressional approval of the war comes up, Ken.  It suggests there were matters of doubt and dispute, rather than simply an evil plot, which is what you typically go for.

Bush did lie. I never claimed that Iraq did not have WMD's prior to the 1991 war. However I believed the weapons inspecters who said there wasn't any left and they were right and Bush knew they were right when he lied to the US Congress and the American citizens.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


I am not pretending anything, I am going off of the news reports. Obama helped unknown rebels take power through the use of NATO and American drones, and now we have this *ahem* little problem that should have been completely foreseeable.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

We didn't invade and occupy Libya. Why do you keep pretending like a few airstrikes is equivalent to a long planned invasion and occupation?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

It may have been forseeable but what precisely should Obama have done about it? Let a known terrorist kill his own citizens and then distribute his weapons to terrorists worldwide? Like he tried to do before?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Fort

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

It doesn't complement your shrieks of "Bush lied!" every time Congressional approval of the war comes up, Ken.  It suggests there were matters of doubt and dispute, rather than simply an evil plot, which is what you typically go for.

Bush did lie. I never claimed that Iraq did not have WMD's prior to the 1991 war. However I believed the weapons inspecters who said there wasn't any left and they were right and Bush knew they were right when he lied to the US Congress and the American citizens.

You believe...  Yes, and you have such a clear and unbiased view of Bush II's thinking...  Care to reconcile your standard of proof here, with the one you are applying to the recruiter shooter, over on the death penalty thread?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Put boots on the ground. Strike the cache locations. Do nothing -  go big or go home. Dont put these weapons up for grabs...

Why do civilian casualties matter to you now, when Saddam could invade rape and plunder a whole country, commit a long campaign of genocide and other innumerable unspeakable ghastly atrocities, without you even batting an eye?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

It may have been forseeable but what precisely should Obama have done about it? Let a known terrorist kill his own citizens and then distribute his weapons to terrorists worldwide? Like he tried to do before?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Fort

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Yeah and that wouldn't have sent the GOP idiots in congress into some sort of fit and undermined the legitimacy of the rebels in the rest of the ME.

Civilian casualties have always concerned me. I supported the first Iraq war and would have supported removing him then. I would never support the second war once it became clear we were killing and displacing many more than the Ba'thists ever did.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


It doesnt concern you that there is a huge power vacuum in Libya right now? That any group could conceivably take the reigns of power there?

What have we really done, beside create mass chaos.

I remember all the leftists preaching that "they" hate us because we keep meddling. Was that all just hollow rhetoric, so much doublespeak to be redefined and rewritten with new leadership?

It all seems very duplicitous to me for some reason.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Yeah and that wouldn't have sent the GOP idiots in congress into some sort of fit and undermined the legitimacy of the rebels in the rest of the ME.

Civilian casualties have always concerned me. I supported the first Iraq war and would have supported removing him then. I would never support the second war once it became clear we were killing and displacing many more than the Ba'thists ever did.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

I started a 1984 thread, Ken.  Maybe you'd like to offer a primer in how you get the doublethink working so well for you?