Only a fucking retard calls Social Security a Ponzi scheme... (Full Version)

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farglebargle -> Only a fucking retard calls Social Security a Ponzi scheme... (9/11/2011 1:21:20 PM)

Or maybe you think Forbes is some sort of liberal rag...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/beltway/2011/09/08/no-governor-perry-social-security-is-not-a-ponzi-scheme/




Lucylastic -> RE: Only a fucking retard calls Social Security a Ponzi scheme... (9/11/2011 1:22:57 PM)

But but Rush and Rick say it is, ....
oh who to believe, who to believe..!!!!
heeeee




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Only a fucking retard calls Social Security a Ponzi scheme... (9/11/2011 1:24:13 PM)

Only a fucking retard starts a 3rd thread on a topic and links an article that doesnt even address the issue.




farglebargle -> RE: Only a fucking retard calls Social Security a Ponzi scheme... (9/11/2011 1:26:34 PM)

The issue is: People asserting that Social Security is a ponzi scheme are fucking retarded.

And it's clearly indicated in the post title.




Epytropos -> RE: Only a fucking retard calls Social Security a Ponzi scheme... (9/11/2011 1:28:13 PM)

A ponzi scheme is a situation in which new investors pay the dividends owed to old investors, and then as those new investors come due more investors are found to cover them. How is that different from Social Security? The Forbes article doesn't even address that, incidentally. All their assertions prove, if true, is that it is a ponzi scheme which is likely to continue working for the foreseeable future, which I don't think most rational minds dispute given that it carries the power of government mandate.




farglebargle -> RE: Only a fucking retard calls Social Security a Ponzi scheme... (9/11/2011 1:30:31 PM)

Social Security INSURANCE isn't an investment. If you're concerned about reserves, wouldn't any reserve issue be fixed by simply eliminating the cap on earnings?




Epytropos -> RE: Only a fucking retard calls Social Security a Ponzi scheme... (9/11/2011 1:36:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Social Security INSURANCE isn't an investment.

I suppose that's a point. I'm not sure how fully that refutes the fundamental concept, but at a rhetorical level I'll grant you it.
quote:


If you're concerned about reserves, wouldn't any reserve issue be fixed by simply eliminating the cap on earnings?

Yes, but only by taking money from those who do not need SS to pay those who do. Why not simply raise taxes and increase social spending if you're going to do that, and call a spade a spade?




farglebargle -> RE: Only a fucking retard calls Social Security a Ponzi scheme... (9/11/2011 1:38:17 PM)

Well, it is raising taxes. On those who can most afford it.

I mean, you're not really going to carry water for a guy earning a million a year, paying in the same as a guy earning 160k, are you?

And when that guy is bankrupt, he'll still have his social security benefits to fall back on, right?




tazzygirl -> RE: Only a fucking retard calls Social Security a Ponzi scheme... (9/11/2011 1:43:23 PM)

Texas Gov. Rick Perry called Social Security a “Ponzi scheme” in his 2010 book, “Fed Up.” On Wednesday night he doubled down, repeating the claim at a Republican debate and adding for good measure that the program is a “monstrous lie.”

Is he right?

Strictly speaking, the metaphor is misleading. A Ponzi scheme, named after Boston conman Charles Ponzi, is a fraudulent investment operation. In its essential design it’s a con. Investors don’t earn interest and instead are paid off by other dupes. Because these schemes require an ever-increasing number of new participants to pay off earlier investors, they inevitably collapse.

Social Security isn’t an individual investment plan. It’s a government insurance plan that offers seniors a predictable income. Retirees do indeed depend on future workers to pay their Social Security benefits, though unlike a Ponzi scheme, nobody pretends otherwise. The notion of this kind of inter-generational transfer is baked into the policy.

And unlike regular investments, participants in Social Security don’t own their accounts (although many conservatives would like to see such a change). If you die before you become eligible, your estate doesn’t get the money. If you live longer than average, you get more.

In broad political terms, however, Mr. Perry is making a case that fits within the mainstream of modern Republican thinking. In his book, he elaborates at greater length than during Wednesday’s debate, arguing that politicians have for too long made “fraudulent promises” to Americans about the health of the government’s social safety net.

Social Security, he suggests, is like a Ponzi scheme because it’s based on “deceptive accounting [that] has hoodwinked the American public into thinking that Social Security is a retirement system and financially sound, when clearly it is not.”

(Mr. Perry also makes a broader point, arguing that the social safety net created by the New Deal and expanded since then was a fundamentally misguided and unconstitutional expansion of government. Social Security, is “something we have been forced to accept” since then. Not all Republicans are ready to agree with that.)

American workers contribute to Social Security with the expectation that they will receive similar benefits once they retire. Surveys show many younger Americans don’t think they’ll receive a check, and yet pay into the program with the implied promise of future benefits.

For years, Social Security collected more in payroll taxes than it paid out in benefits, but now the program is drawing on the surplus accumulated during those years. By 2036, the program’s actuaries predict, Social Security will have exhausted its reserves and will only be able to pay 77% of promised benefits.

Mr. Perry and those who hold with his position contend the “trust fund” needed to pay benefits between now and 2036 is a fiction. That money is not sitting in a bank vault somewhere. It’s been spent by the federal government on everything from the war in Iraq to food stamps to agriculture subsidies. So to pay Social Security back, the government will have to borrow money.

Fixing the program isn’t hard, and there’s a consensus among experts across the political spectrum about what could be done. A combination of benefit cuts and tax increases would do the trick. Still, future seniors will not be given exactly what was promised. They might have to wait until age 69 or 70 to collect full benefits, instead of 67 as now promised. Their annual cost of living increases might be smaller.

Ponzi’s scheme was unsustainable because the basic math of his system required ever increasing and unrealistic numbers of investors. (For more on the history, click here.) If a similar plan started with 1,000 investors, by the 20th round, the scheme would need more new investors than the entire U.S. population to pay off the earlier investors.

Social Security’s system is unsustainable, at least as presently written, because the U.S. has an increasing number of retirees and fewer workers to support them.

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2011/09/08/is-social-security-a-ponzi-scheme/




Epytropos -> RE: Only a fucking retard calls Social Security a Ponzi scheme... (9/11/2011 1:48:10 PM)

I'm going to decline the 'tax the rich' argument since I've never once seen it end in anything but agreeing to disagree or else one person having a meltdown. Ideological concerns aside I think we're on the same page.




Fellow -> RE: Only a fucking retard calls Social Security a Ponzi scheme... (9/11/2011 3:58:42 PM)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RygWFh39CvE


It is not a Bonzi scheme in principle, but the way it is run makes SS to resemble one.


(T. Friedman is a crazy globalist, of course. He is not an expert of anything. Both debates are partly right in this case.).




provfivetine -> RE: Only a fucking retard calls Social Security a Ponzi scheme... (9/11/2011 4:17:20 PM)

The two are absolutely identical and it is hilarious comedy when someone attempts to argue otherwise. The only difference between Social Security and a Ponzi Scheme is that you are FORCED to participate in Social Security.




Owner59 -> RE: Only a fucking retard calls Social Security a Ponzi scheme... (9/11/2011 4:34:32 PM)

We`re hoping your dopey party goes with that narrative.......we can walk to a victory in 2012.




Termyn8or -> RE: Only a fucking retard calls Social Security a Ponzi scheme... (9/12/2011 1:49:24 AM)

Only those with a very limited intelligence, or at least a very narrow viewpoint would fail to see the extreme similarities if not in the original concept, at least in the more modern implementation of social security. You probably are also unaware that the federal income tax was only temporary.

And in calling people you haven't even engaged names you have revealed your own level of maturity. And in failing to see the similarity that others see even if you disagree you have proven what I have stated supra.

Are you now proud of yourself ?

T^T




tazzygirl -> RE: Only a fucking retard calls Social Security a Ponzi scheme... (9/12/2011 2:01:05 AM)

We can cease the program, wait for all those people to die.

We could slap a means test on it, then watch those with money scream bloody blue murder.




Termyn8or -> RE: Only a fucking retard calls Social Security a Ponzi scheme... (9/12/2011 2:12:31 AM)

"We can cease the program, wait for all those people to die."

Medical mistakes kill over 16,000 a month. Less than 65% of them are employed. I think they're doing the best that they can.

Sorry to be flippant about it but I am so sick of this mess that the next time I get sick I fully intend to die. Help the rest of you out a bit. Now if about three bilion more people would think like me, those who are left would have a pretty nice life.

T^T




tazzygirl -> RE: Only a fucking retard calls Social Security a Ponzi scheme... (9/12/2011 2:19:55 AM)

Give a number for how many people seek medical treatment each month, then lets compare.




thompsonx -> RE: Only a fucking retard calls Social Security a Ponzi scheme... (9/12/2011 10:54:26 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Epytropos

A ponzi scheme is a situation in which new investors pay the dividends owed to old investors, and then as those new investors come due more investors are found to cover them. How is that different from Social Security? The Forbes article doesn't even address that, incidentally. All their assertions prove, if true, is that it is a ponzi scheme which is likely to continue working for the foreseeable future, which I don't think most rational minds dispute given that it carries the power of government mandate.



Social security is not manditory.




thompsonx -> RE: Only a fucking retard calls Social Security a Ponzi scheme... (9/12/2011 10:55:34 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: provfivetine

The two are absolutely identical and it is hilarious comedy when someone attempts to argue otherwise. The only difference between Social Security and a Ponzi Scheme is that you are FORCED to participate in Social Security.



Social security is not manditory.




rockspider -> RE: Only a fucking retard calls Social Security a Ponzi scheme... (9/12/2011 2:50:37 PM)

A few quotes from my mum.

A great society is one where few have too much and even less has to little!

A great society can be viewed on how it looks after the ones who can’t look after them self!!

A Ponzi scheme is one where you believe it is an investment with a high return. Social security is an insurance you don’t hope you ever going to need.

Sadly enough, I am living in a country which says it has got a great social security system. But the truth it has become over administrated, bloated, screaming expensive and the people who really should have it has a hard time getting it, and the swindlers and scammers is getting way to much out of the system.
I am not against the basic idea of the system, but seeing how it has become, makes me pissed of no end.




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