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RE: How the Deficit Got This Big???? - 9/14/2011 3:46:43 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/108xx/doc10871/HistoricalTables.pdf

Im not going to post that here.... but take a look.

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RE: How the Deficit Got This Big???? - 9/14/2011 3:49:24 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/108xx/doc10871/HistoricalTables.pdf

Im not going to post that here.... but take a look.


My chart comes from the Treasury Department itself, and shows the National Debt going up each year.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: How the Deficit Got This Big???? - 9/14/2011 3:50:29 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		thanks for the link Tazzy:) I will get around to perusing that:)



I am wondering why the focus is on clinton ...Is discussing bushes clusterfuck against the rules or something, or is it just being ignored?? inquiring minds want to know?


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RE: How the Deficit Got This Big???? - 9/14/2011 3:51:35 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/108xx/doc10871/HistoricalTables.pdf

Im not going to post that here.... but take a look.


My chart comes from the Treasury Department itself, and shows the National Debt going up each year.


Again, there is a difference between Debt and Deficit.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: How the Deficit Got This Big???? - 9/14/2011 3:53:09 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/108xx/doc10871/HistoricalTables.pdf

Im not going to post that here.... but take a look.


My chart comes from the Treasury Department itself, and shows the National Debt going up each year.


Again, there is a difference between Debt and Deficit.


I didn't say otherwise. The deficit went down each year (But we still had a deficit every year), which is why the debt went up.

This according to the Treasury Department.

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: How the Deficit Got This Big???? - 9/14/2011 3:53:59 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Yet you are arguing it didnt happen when the numbers show it did.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: How the Deficit Got This Big???? - 9/14/2011 3:54:47 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Yet you are arguing it didnt happen when the numbers show it did.



Because the CBO's numbers don't show the whole picture, unless you'd like to argue with the Treasury Department.

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: How the Deficit Got This Big???? - 9/14/2011 3:57:12 PM   
MileHighM


Posts: 400
Joined: 10/8/2009
Status: offline 		this is a great arguement...two seemingly legit sources showing different data... both government controlled

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RE: How the Deficit Got This Big???? - 9/14/2011 4:01:18 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MileHighM

this is a great arguement...two seemingly legit sources showing different data... both government controlled


Well the discrepancy is pretty easy to explain; the CBO's numbers don't show all the sources of debt we took on, where the Treasury Department's numbers do.

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: How the Deficit Got This Big???? - 9/14/2011 4:10:01 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		94 deficit 203.2
95 deficit 164.0
96 deficit 107.4
97 deficit 21.9
98 surplus 69.3
99 surplus 125.6
00 surplus 236.2
01 surplus 128.2

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: How the Deficit Got This Big???? - 9/14/2011 4:12:19 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline 		From the Treasury (and posted on the last page):


FY1995 deficit: $281.23 billion
FY1996 deficit: $250.83 billion
FY1997 deficit: $188.34 billion
FY1998 deficit: $113.05 billion
FY1999 deficit: $130.08 billion
FY2000 deficit: $17.91 billion
FY2001 deficit: $133.29 billion

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: How the Deficit Got This Big???? - 9/14/2011 4:19:28 PM   
Fellow


Posts: 1486
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		Bush numbers seem close to reported in other places, Obama numbers have clearly suffered significant shrinkage. I hate this kind of partisan creativity with numbers. See e.g. http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article30017.html . Also, how to evaluate the Federal Reserve dollar destruction (buying garbage paper assets, QE1, 2 ... n, etc.. ) under Obama? It would be naive to assume Fed. makes these decisions without the Treasury department approval.

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: How the Deficit Got This Big???? - 9/14/2011 4:23:13 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		partisan?? Using the CBO figures is partisan??? Treasury figures are partisan? WTFF, but your resource is *shivers* da trufe?


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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: How the Deficit Got This Big???? - 9/14/2011 4:33:51 PM   
MileHighM


Posts: 400
Joined: 10/8/2009
Status: offline 		I liked the analysis in the article.. I said some similar things on an SSi thread.

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: How the Deficit Got This Big???? - 9/14/2011 4:37:15 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline 		it got so big when th us went off of the specie standard whos sole purpose was to INSURE a cap on spending and th the allowance of the gubafia to create trusts and investments while at the same time controlling the stock market.

its your gub so you gotta love it.

they have over 110 trillion in gub investment trust accounts.


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RE: How the Deficit Got This Big???? - 9/14/2011 5:01:56 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline 		Fr
Give up raiikun. I've posted the same facts numerous times. The Clinton groupies refuse to admit that spending more than your income is still spending even if you borrow from "yourself". Mile. It had nothing to do with actual bs estimated. The surplus numbers ignore intergovernmental borrowing.

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: How the Deficit Got This Big???? - 9/14/2011 5:06:20 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline 		Btw they also ignore that it was primarily capital gains tax cuts, GOP driven welfare reform and the Reagan peace dividend that led to reductions in the deficit.

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: How the Deficit Got This Big???? - 9/14/2011 5:08:39 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

From the Treasury (and posted on the last page):


FY1995 deficit: $281.23 billion
FY1996 deficit: $250.83 billion
FY1997 deficit: $188.34 billion
FY1998 deficit: $113.05 billion
FY1999 deficit: $130.08 billion
FY2000 deficit: $17.91 billion
FY2001 deficit: $133.29 billion



One last time.. from your own web site...

What is the difference between the debt and the deficit?

The deficit is the fiscal year difference between what the United States Government (Government) takes in from taxes and other revenues, called receipts, and the amount of money the Government spends, called outlays. The items included in the deficit are considered either on-budget or off-budget.

You can think of the total debt as accumulated deficits plus accumulated off-budget surpluses. The on-budget deficits require the U.S. Treasury to borrow money to raise cash needed to keep the Government operating. We borrow the money by selling securities like Treasury bills, notes, bonds and savings bonds to the public.

During the years that there were surpluses, there wasn't a need to increase debt. The fact that the Treasury did so does not distract from the fact that there were surpluses in those years. 1999 and 2000 both showed on budget surpluses. Which is why Public debt went down in 99, 2000 and 2001.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: How the Deficit Got This Big???? - 9/14/2011 5:29:18 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		someone please point out to wilbur that im looking for sources. not just his 0% credibility claims.
If you wanna disagree with CBO figures, then give me the same graph from 2000 to 2011 showing comparisons from the treasury???.Saying it, doesnt make it believable or close to correct.
Obfuscating wont be taken seriously.


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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: How the Deficit Got This Big???? - 9/14/2011 5:52:56 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

During the years that there were surpluses, there wasn't a need to increase debt. The fact that the Treasury did so does not distract from the fact that there were surpluses in those years. 1999 and 2000 both showed on budget surpluses. Which is why Public debt went down in 99, 2000 and 2001.


And the fact is, the sources of those "surpluses" was due to the government borrowing it...that's why we had a deficit those years. The Public Debt is only one part of the National Debt. (The Public Debt is presently 10.4 trillion of the 14 trillion, according to the White House website). The other 3.6 trillion is still debt that the government has obligations to pay back, which is why the treasury still calls it debt.

So yes, Public Debt went down, but the overall National Debt still went up. We had a deficit those years.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 40
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